Ottawa CPL Club

[zen]

On 9/7/2018 at 10:20 PM, Prune_55 said:

Legally the only way the CSA could withhold sanctioning from Ottawa is to also withdraw sanctioning from TFC, TFCII, Whitecaps and Impact in the same year.  Denying one club access to play in a USSF league while sanctioning 3 others would bankrupt the CSA if the Fury ever took them to court. 

No it wouldn't. The CSA could very well still win, they cannot force TFC, Impact and the Whitecaps because the level of play and financial benefits cannot be matched by a Canadian league in the short term, that is not true of Ottawa (or at least we don't know yet)

[Cheeta]

3 hours ago, Ansem said:

They'll be in USL for a year or 2 then they'll be force to decide by the CSA who won't sanction them forever in USL.

I made my peace with it. Quebec City 2020 with Perhaps Saskatoon in 2020 will make up for the Fury staying, mainly Quebec City which will be MASSIVE for the league and the province. That team will be followed by surrounding regions, not only Quebec. 

As more teams comes in, Fury will want in but it will cost them much more than joining now. 

That won't ruin 2019 season for me. 

If CanPL is half ways successful USL is a dead-end in Canada and that's what the Fury have married themselves to. 

As messy and fu'ked up as this launch is going, and the 1st few seasons are going to be as messy and fu'ked up as the launch, I'm pretty convinced the league will make a real go of it.  If 6 core teams can be found (and I believe we have 5 already) whoever makes up the budget teams around the edges doesn't really matter.  The league will prosper and be around for the long haul.  Fury could have been that 6th team.  They're not and might never be.  Would be fun if it was Quebec though!

I predict Halifax, Hamilton and Winnipeg are going to drive this league so don't hold them back.  Let them.  I also predict Edmonton is going to enjoy levels of support they're never had before and I predict by this time next year a lot of those acorns that have been planted in potential markets will be sprouting while new investors begin crawling out of the woodwork. 

 

 

[ChrisinOrleans]

On 9/7/2018 at 10:24 AM, Rintaran said:

Sadly, my own grasp of the French language is so poor that I have to rely on google chrome for my translations. The league definitely should not be doing that, and I agree they need some French-original articles, with French content producers. Of course, I believe the same of L1O & the reverse of PLSQ (English-original articles with English content-producers, damn hard to follow a league in another language).

I completely agree about the multi-lingual commentary. Kudos for willing to learn about aboriginal languages. I wish I had that opportunity! And if you want to learn a bit of French, you're in the right city! Sudbury is super bilingual. 

[Kent]

6 hours ago, Ansem said:

Fatal situation? No need to be overdramatic.

Try to not see red every time you see that BBTB has commented. He didn't say it was a fatal situation. He said the opposite. Here is his quote "CanPL is in an awkward, but by no stretch of the imagination fatal, situation at the moment."

[CDNFootballer]

On 9/8/2018 at 2:18 AM, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

A new reddit thread has been started by someone claiming to be an OSEG employee:

 

 

Who knows if this reddit poster is actually an OSEG employer or anonymous poster posing as one but his 25K average for the new league would put a league roster of 25 at a budget of 625K per year for CPL. His reference to this being closer to USL D3 doesn't add up as USL D2's salary budget range is 250-500K.

His info is suspect.

Edited September 9, 2018 by CDNFootballer

[Blackjack15]

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/fury-united-soccer-league-cpl-1.4816503

The last part of the article says this: 

“Goudie says the Fury have also been in contact with the Canadian Soccer Association, which ultimately has sanctioning last say. Ottawa is currently sanctioned to play in the USL in 2019.”

[CDNFootballer]

A court case for CSA not sanctioning the Fury for USL would likely take a long time and is likely something the CSA has decided is not the course of action to take so on the surface there may be stated support for Fury at this time to remain in USL but under the surface there's probably a negative opinion and disappointment.

[Ansem]

2 hours ago, Kent said:

Try to not see red every time you see that BBTB has commented. He didn't say it was a fatal situation. He said the opposite. Here is his quote "CanPL is in an awkward, but by no stretch of the imagination fatal, situation at the moment."

I fixed my post

Sorry @BringBackTheBlizzard

[soccerlife]

1 hour ago, CDNFootballer said:

Who knows if this reddit poster is actually an OSEG employer or anonymous poster posing as one but his 25K average for the new league would put a league roster of 25 at a budget of 625K per year for CPL. His reference to this being closer to USL D3 doesn't add up as USL D2's salary budget range is 250-500K.

His info is suspect.

Exactly what I thought.  Another forum guy said it was more than $500,000 (Rob). Maybe they will keep the rosters to 23-24 in order to give a bit more to the players. 

[Rocket Robin]

September 6, 2018  Toronto FC II   3    Ottawa Fury  4    

I got my game report published in Waking The Red  

http://www.wakingthered.com/2018/9/9/17833666/Toronto-fc-ii-seven-goal-thriller-at-home-ends-with-Ottawa-taking-the-Ontario-derby-usl  

[shamrock]

5 hours ago, CDNFootballer said:

Who knows if this reddit poster is actually an OSEG employer or anonymous poster posing as one but his 25K average for the new league would put a league roster of 25 at a budget of 625K per year for CPL. His reference to this being closer to USL D3 doesn't add up as USL D2's salary budget range is 250-500K.

His info is suspect.

How is 625k not closer to 500k than to a million? What he says makes a lot of sense. 

[Aird25]

1 hour ago, shamrock said:

How is 625k not closer to 500k than to a million? What he says makes a lot of sense. 

Read it again and be mindful of D3 and D2. In theory D3 budgets will be below the D2 numbers quoted.Though I don’t know where those D2 numbers come from

Edited September 10, 2018 by Aird25

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

1 hour ago, shamrock said:

How is 625k not closer to 500k than to a million? What he says makes a lot of sense. 

He could be thinking that 20 x 25 = $500k so it all depends on roster size. I have no idea how anyone can confidently state an average for USL as if it is meaningful in some way when the league has no salary cap and the larger independent clubs with MLS aspirations operate on a completely different sort of business plan than the MLS reserve teams. From recent info emanating from Ottawa it appears clear that north of $USD 1 million is the norm for the former, while under $USD 500k might indeed be happening for some of the latter.

Edited September 10, 2018 by BringBackTheBlizzard

[ironcub14]

On 9/7/2018 at 4:37 PM, Ansem said:

There shouldn't be any compromise in my opinion. CPL set rules and every teams have to abide to it. Other "competent" and "successful" leagues around the world don't let 1 team impose their rules on the others. That's the quickest way to CSL 2.0. The league's unwillingness to cave to the Fury just to get them at all cost actually show consistency, confidence and competence.

After cooling my head, I do see that and CPL should be applauded for that. I don't see the Habs, Leafs or Rangers getting exemptions to the rules. I don't see the Yankees or Warriors get exemptions to their leagues, why should the Fury? Based on what exactly?

No disrespect to the team but they are abiding to USL set of rules...and if they were invited into MLS, they would quickly abide by those rules. Now you see why CPL can't have that. Other leagues would never take them seriously if they did and leagues do observes each other.

That's simply not the way business works.

Exemple:

When MLS announced they were looking for a 2nd club in New York, one of the potential ownership groups that approached MLS was the Cosmos. However, the owners for the Cosmos demanded that MLS allow them to retain ownership of their brand (something no other MLS club has) and allow them to use the cost of building a stadium as an expansion fee rather than giving MLS the fee. MLS flat out refused.

So, if we agree that MLS is successful and competent, the fact that CPL wouldn't bend to make exceptions like MLS did, is an overhaul good sign for me.

The ball is in the Fury's court, CPL said their peace and are looking elsewhere.

I don't think very many people here or anybody at all would suggest that CPL cave in to all or most of the Fury's demands or let the Fury impose themselves onto the league rules. I hope nobody's suggesting that at all.

I've seen a lot of support for grandfathering in the Fury though, and I totally agree with that. The Fury should not have to cut a single player or a single dollar off their wage bill because of any regulations that CPL imposes, with the exception of quotas, though the Fury is obviously totally fine on that front. I say this not as a Fury fan with a Fury avatar on this forum lol, but as somebody who respects what the Fury has done this season and in past.

That's why I'm suggesting a soft salary cap with a luxury tax. The Fury can keep all their players and all of their wage bill, they just have to pay a bit of a tax to the league, whatever amount the two sides negotiate together. They can look at MLB or NBA or whatever for some guidelines to start. And the Fury definitely shouldn't have to give up any players to a draft, if CPL was trying to impose that on them.

I'm always in favour of bringing two sides together, for the greater good. Being firmly in the CPL's camp, or being firmly in the Fury's camp, as I've seen most fans do the past week, is not really helping advance the greater good at all with respect to this Fury-CPL issue, that being the long-term advancement of Canadian soccer as a result of the successful launch of the league.

Edited September 10, 2018 by ironcub14

[Toronto Ruffrider]

Does anyone know if the supposed figure of $625K is in US dollars or Canadian dollars? If it's the latter, that would only translate to $475K US.

[ironcub14]

Just now, Toronto Ruffrider said:

Does anyone know if the supposed figure of $625K is in US dollars or Canadian dollars? If it's the latter, that would only translate to $475K US.

Probably CAD, but honestly, nobody knows what the cap is right now, so anybody predicating any argument on this forum or anywhere else based on what the cap will be is really just making a guess for now. It's all just a guess.

[HfxCeltic]

I'm just sour about the away game I had planned being ruined. Have family in Ottawa and told them I would come up with the expectation I could tag a Fury-Wanderers match onto the trip. Now I have to go to Ottawa regardless; thanks Fury . 

[ted]

21 hours ago, Cheeta said:

If 6 core teams can be found (and I believe we have 5 already)

Of the seven teams already in the league which 5 are the, "core teams"?

[Ansem]

49 minutes ago, ironcub14 said:

I don't think very many people here or anybody at all would suggest that CPL cave in to all or most of the Fury's demands or let the Fury impose themselves onto the league rules. I hope nobody's suggesting that at all.

I've seen a lot of support for grandfathering in the Fury though, and I totally agree with that. The Fury should not have to cut a single player or a single dollar off their wage bill because of any regulations that CPL imposes, with the exception of quotas, though the Fury is obviously totally fine on that front. I say this not as a Fury fan with a Fury avatar on this forum lol, but as somebody who respects what the Fury has done this season and in past.

That's why I'm suggesting a soft salary cap with a luxury tax. The Fury can keep all their players and all of their wage bill, they just have to pay a bit of a tax to the league, whatever amount the two sides negotiate together. They can look at MLB or NBA or whatever for some guidelines to start. And the Fury definitely shouldn't have to give up any players to a draft, if CPL was trying to impose that on them.

I'm always in favour of bringing two sides together, for the greater good. Being firmly in the CPL's camp, or being firmly in the Fury's camp, as I've seen most fans do the past week, is not really helping advance the greater good at all with respect to this Fury-CPL issue, that being the long-term advancement of Canadian soccer as a result of the successful launch of the league.

I respectfully disagree my friend. The league has an idea of how it wants to operates and making exception for the Fury on roster which would give them an undeniable advantage isn't in their best interest. We can't be surprised on how it didnt go over that well will the other owners starting from scratch.

Also, CPL wants everyone to start on equal footing as a starting league. MLS parity is often praised here and down south, so I don't see why CPL should be any different. It's bad optically to have a USL team who signed most of the best "available" Canadians out there before the CPL season come in and be a force in the league just like that. I understand fans perspective although I think there's an exaggeration on the Fury's overall achievements but I also understand the league's point of view.

I'm totally fine with the Fury staying in USL for now. The league has to look after it's own interest first and foremost , just like the Fury are looking after their own interests above all else.

Edited September 10, 2018 by Ansem

[ironcub14]

6 minutes ago, Ansem said:

I respectfully disagree my friend. The league has an idea of how it wants to operates and making exception for the Fury on roster which would give them an undeniable advantage isn't in their best interest. We can't be surprised on how it didnt go over that well will the other owners starting from scratch. 

Also, CPL wants everyone to start on equal footing as a starting league. MLS parity is often praised here and down south, so I don't see why CPL should be any different. It's bad optically to have a USL team who signed most of the best "available" Canadians out there before the CPL season come in and be a force in the league just like that. I understand fans perspective although I think there's an exaggeration on the Fury's overall achievements but I also understand the league's point of view.

I'm totally fine with the Fury staying in USL for now. The league has to look after it's own interest first and foremost 

I hear you on all of that, but I would argue allowing an existing team such as the Fury to keep their roster and imposing a soft salary cap on them with a luxury tax is not making an exception for them at all, it's just taking the current CanSoc landscape into account.

Every single team is given equal regulations and footing on a soft salary cap. And from a financial perspective, a correctly-set luxury tax will ensure financial parity across all teams, all things considered.

If anything, as long as the luxury tax is a percentage amount that makes sense for everyone and goes back to the league, then I think all CPL teams should make their decision on whether to have a wage bill that goes under or over that cap on their own. I don't want to see a complicated set of roster rules like MLS at all, but a soft salary cap with a simple luxury tax is really easy to implement and understand for all teams and fans. I hope both the leagues and fans are more flexible about what their idea of a salary cap should look like, it doesn't have to be a hard cap at all.

[Ansem]

4 minutes ago, ironcub14 said:

I hear you on all of that, but I would argue allowing an existing team such as the Fury to keep their roster and imposing a soft salary cap on them with a luxury tax is not making an exception for them at all, it's just taking the current CanSoc landscape into account.

Every single team is given equal regulations and footing on a soft salary cap. And from a financial perspective, a correctly-set luxury tax will ensure financial parity across all teams, all things considered.

If anything, as long as the luxury tax is a percentage amount that makes sense for everyone and goes back to the league, then I think all CPL teams should make their decision on whether to have a wage bill that goes under or over that cap on their own. I don't want to see a complicated set of roster rules like MLS at all, but a soft salary cap with a simple luxury tax is really easy to implement and understand for all teams and fans. I hope both the leagues and fans are more flexible about what their idea of a salary cap should look like, it doesn't have to be a hard cap at all.

I agree with all of your points. The sticking issue is that our national pool isn't France's.

If it were, I doubt there would be issues, but our pool being what it is and for the Fury to stock up in advance of the CPL season is I assume why the league isn't having it.

Not enough great Canadian talent to go around in 2019 to allow the Fury to keep their roster intact I would assume.

As things progress, it could definitely change.

[ironcub14]

2 minutes ago, Ansem said:

I agree with all of your points. The sticking issue is that our national pool isn't France's.

If it were, I doubt there would be issues, but our pool being what it is and for the Fury to stock up in advance of the CPL season is I assume why the league isn't having it.

Not enough great Canadian talent to go around in 2019 to allow the Fury to keep their roster intact I would assume.

As things progress, it could definitely change.

We did all applaud the Fury on all of this the past year for sure, who knew they'd do too good a job hoarding all em Canadian talent lol

We know there's more out there, but no doubt, the Fury has really stocked up for sure.

[masster]

I am curious to know which Canadians on Ottawa's roster are under contract for next year and which are not? The one's out of contract could find themselves in a decent position if Ottawa wants them back. They will have both the Fury and CPL bidding for their services.

[Ansem]

26 minutes ago, masster said:

I am curious to know which Canadians on Ottawa's roster are under contract for next year and which are not? The one's out of contract could find themselves in a decent position if Ottawa wants them back. They will have both the Fury and CPL bidding for their services.

Precisely why the league, I think didnt cave. They will get a crack at those players one way or another without having to see the Fury dominating teams in year 1.

[Initial B]

If the Fury and CPL are bidding on players, I don't see how CPL teams can compete on pay. The best players will play for Toronto, Vancouver, and Montreal, the next tier will play for Ottawa, and the rest will play for CPL clubs.