Ottawa CPL Club

[Rattler280]

1 minute ago, BuzzAndSting said:

If you don't understand that then you have a very poor grasp of the soccer landscape in NA.

Obviously I understand why nobody is going after them, but the same should apply to Ottawa. I have no reason to believe that the CanPl will be as stable or have as high a level of play as the USL right off the bat. Why is Ottawa the only team that should be forced to join the league strictly because of national pride. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. 

[KW519]

16 minutes ago, Rattler280 said:

All the vitriol thrown at Ottawa over this is bonkers. Meanwhile of course Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver get a free pass. If the Canadian Premier League isn't going to exist in the 3 biggest media markets in this country, then it won't be existing very long regardless of what the Fury chose to do. How dare they choose not to join the national D1 league! It's pretty damn easy to be the D1 league when there's nothing else to begin with. The Fury made the right call. If CanPL can get up to the standard of the USL then they should absolutely join in. I see nothing indicating that will be the case anytime soon though.

TFC train 10 minutes away from where York 9 is playing their home games in Toronto.

[Admin]

12 minutes ago, Rattler280 said:

Obviously I understand why nobody is going after them, but the same should apply to Ottawa. I have no reason to believe that the CanPl will be as stable or have as high a level of play as the USL right off the bat. Why is Ottawa the only team that should be forced to join the league strictly because of national pride. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. 

All the discussion over the big three has already happened, years ago.

I am not sure I would be upset that many view Ottawa a key team. 

While people may be frustrated by this it is from a position of how important they feel the team is.  A team which brings to the league an element of the very things you are weary about wrt to stability and level of play.

If you think another league will come about in our lifetime if this fails...well, there won't be one.

 

[Cheeta]

For an organization that has shown it keeps a very close eye and ear on the footie community's social media the silence from CanPL is deafening.

 

[BuzzAndSting]

1 minute ago, Rattler280 said:

Obviously I understand why nobody is going after them, but the same should apply to Ottawa. 

Again, you clearly don't understand the current landscape.

3 minutes ago, Rattler280 said:

I have no reason to believe that the CanPl will be as stable or have as high a level of play as the USL right off the bat.

No one does. Despite Stuart's assurances in his tweets, he and the Fury don't either. The Fury took risks to join the NASL which was no sure thing, and yet they're not willing to take a risk on this, that's the sticking point for a lot of this. On top of that the Fury have been attending every meeting with the CPL up until they apparently found out they wouldn't be able to keep their entire roster in tact and they may be required to cut their budget. As others have pointed out they have turned their roster over every off season so that excuse also doesn't sit will with a lot of fans. All of this doesn't sound like a club who was worried about the stability of the league to me.

You and others seem to believe that the level of the USL is a big draw for the fans in Ottawa, I disagree. The majority of fans in Ottawa that I know and see at games are casual soccer fans, families, kids and those just looking for a fun afternoon. I understand the level of the CPL may be lower in the beginning but at least it's all ours and eventually it will grow. For a lot of the casual fans I know they have already expressed a desire to see games against Hamilton, Halifax and Calgary, now the Fury will lose that. They may not even be allowed into the V Cup which historically has brought a lot of buzz and awareness to the team.

11 minutes ago, Rattler280 said:

Why is Ottawa the only team that should be forced to join the league strictly because of national pride. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. 

Because the Fury compete at a level that will be similar to the CPL, maybe not exactly right away but similar. And it's in the best interest of the game in Canada to have them in the CPL, that's why everyone here wants them in the CPL.

Most of the passionate Fury fans will defend this decision because that's what passionate fans do but don't come here and expect die hard Canadian soccer fans to be okay with this. I'm a huge Fury fan and I respect their decision but I'm disappointed and will no longer support the team. I spend a certain amount of money on games, jerseys, etc... each year and from now on that money will be spent on CPL teams instead of the Fury. 

[Keegan]

It would be a lot easier to swallow if Ottawa was choosing to stay in a stable league but I just don’t see it.  USL long term is going to go the way of every other US D2 that continually loses its best clubs to MLS and eventually rebrands and on and on again.  I don’t see how the dollars make sense for Ottawa from a year to year perspective .. I just think they have already sunk a ton of money in and they simply don’t want to do it again with CPL just yet until it proves its stable. 

Maybe CPL needs to do more as well to convince a team like Ottawa but then again they convinced 7 others.. 

Right now it just feels insulting that Ottawa is choosing a minor league no one has heard of and with no growth potential over something historic and monumental. Ottawa leaving USL would have been symbolic of our leagues arrival but instead this message is a bit of a slight.  

Does anyone think the Impact/MLS has something to do with this?  They obviously are tight and Ottawa is essentially their farm team.. im sure they’re not paying full ticket for their loan players as that Ottawa guy on Twitter is claiming. 

[Viruk42]

2 minutes ago, Rattler280 said:

Obviously I understand why nobody is going after them, but the same should apply to Ottawa. I have no reason to believe that the CanPl will be as stable or have as high a level of play as the USL right off the bat. Why is Ottawa the only team that should be forced to join the league strictly because of national pride. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. 

The USL is only in its second season with Div II sanctioning. This season it added 4 teams through expansion, 2 from the NASL, but it also had two go on hiatus and one fold. The year before it added 3 and one folded (not including the Austin Aztek's which also dissolved in 2017 but last played in 2015). That doesn't sound very stable to me? 

As for high level of play, everything remains rumours at this point. You're right, there's no reason to believe CPL will be at the level of USL. Of course, there's also no reason to believe it won't be higher.

What we do know, on the other hand, is that it definitely won't be at the level of MLS. Hence why few people are calling for the MLS teams to leave. The three MLS teams are, as far as I know, making money - unlike the Ottawa Fury. The three MLS teams attract an average of over 20k fans each - more than 4x the Fury's average attendance. So it makes sense for MLS teams to stay in those leagues, but for the Fury? How is it better for them to continue losing money and bringing in ~5k fans playing against Bethlehem (who?), Richmond (where?), Penn FC (what?), or the various MLS farm clubs (why?) instead of creating real rivalries with Hamilton, York, Halifax, etc. 

This *may* be better in the short term for the Fury. It won't be better in the long term, either for them or the CPL. The same cannot be said for the MLS teams, nor for the impact their absence will have on the CPL

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

4 minutes ago, Keegan said:

...Maybe CPL needs to do more as well to convince a team like Ottawa but then again they convinced 7 others... 

The moratorium means that the CSA have engineered a situation where USL isn't an option for the other 7.

[Keegan]

6 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

The moratorium means that the CSA have engineered a situation where USL isn't an option for the other 7.

Well of course, but no one was looking to usl anyways.  FCE opted not to and Hamilton obviously chose to wait for this league as well.  

[Complete Homer]

7 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

The moratorium means that the CSA have engineered a situation where USL isn't an option for the other 7.

And we're back folks

[Macksam]

1 hour ago, Keegan said:

How many Fury players are even signed past this season?  Why are they assuming that their players wants to play USL?  I’m imagining that quite a few guys signed there as a bridge to the new league .. so what now?

Should CPL get a CCL spot as we all expect they will (or at least some route in aside from the voyageurs cup) then this just looks even dumber on Ottawa.  I don’t agree with the cap being too low but also is it a bad thing for a club that is presumably losing money? 

Who do you think is going to get a national tv deal first?  Who is going to get more coverage on Canadian media?  Who is going to develop local and enduring rivalries? 

This is just insane - choosing to stay in a foreign minor league as opposed to a local D1.  It’s not like they’re staying in MLS.. this is a league that seems to turn over half their clubs year after year and their argument is stability?? What stability? You have no major deals, you have nothing and you have to travel all over the USA to play squads that are either trying to make MLS or acting as a farm club to a mls team. Where does that leave you?  No identity, you’re just the loser club in a league of teams that don’t care.  

Does anyone have any doubt that the CPL will be more stable than USL?  There’s no chance we are flipping as many teams as they are.

I think the franchise fee revenues are the big thing. USL is going with the MLS pyramid strategy of endless franchise fees to prop everyone up. They want a piece of that action because again....The Fury, a club known for endless cost cutting measures (NASL to USL shift, cutting the academy) in the past, making the claims (Slashing budget, player allocation rules, etc.) Fury Fanatic's friend is suggesting doesn't compute. FC Edmonton, a club that is the absolute bastion of open-market, libertarian global soccer values did not want to join the USL over the very reasons the Fury have allegedly indicated not to join the CPL. Again, just doesn't make sense. 

Edited September 6, 2018 by Macksam

[Ansem]

3 hours ago, grande said:

I have to say, it feels like a failure of the league to me. It was CPL's and CSA's job to sell the Fury on the league and, clearly, they were unable to. This has, more than anything, shaken my belief of what the CPL will be; I was sure it would be better by all measures to the USL, but if our one and only USL team isn't willing to jump ship well... where does that leave us?

I'm not panicking yet, but if the salary cap really is $500k, what's the point?

How dare does the league is trying to establish early one that it won't be ran by it's teams, let alone a USL team trying to get exemptions on roster?

A healthy functional league can't be dictate what to do by it's clubs. That's healthy league 101.

In the matter of CPL, the only clubs that could make demands to join are really the 3 MLS clubs if it came to that in the future. 

I think the Fury should be careful at not overplaying their hand because they aren't dealing with your typical CSA suit. 

[RickC]

I totally agree that CPL's website, twitter feed, etc. should be fully bilingual. But, is this a bit of a chicken and egg thing? We pretty well know for a certainty that there will be no teams in Quebec in 2019. It now looks less likely there will be a CPL team in Ottawa in 2019 as well. So, does the league increase their expenses to go fully bilingue now, or when there is a Quebec or Ottawa team at least announced as "coming soon"?

I agree with lazlo_80's view that it's the Canadian vs league reality (budgets, level of play, other financial aspects) that may have the Fury at odds with CPL. But, if CPL succeeds and Fury joins, we all know which team(s) will be viewed as the Leaders, which as the Followers, and which as the Hated. OK, I lean a bit more towards the do it 'cause your Canadian aspect.

[Unnamed Trialist]

Just now, BuzzAndSting said:

A I'm a huge Fury fan and I respect their decision but I'm disappointed and will no longer support the team. I spend a certain amount of money on games, jerseys, etc... each year and from now on that money will be spent on CPL teams instead of the Fury. .....

In fact, there are fans of the MLS teams that are also expressing discontent. For many reasons, and perhaps not a lot, but it is happening. 

There are many Caps fans who would perhaps support a CPL team instead, if it had been properly set up in the Fraser Valley, in decent conditions. Maybe a thousand even, a small but significant piece of the fan base.

Same could go for Impact or TFC fans, although York9 is not looking like an alternative. Not sure what the Impact base is, where the demographic comes from. But still, it is not like MLS is such high quality that you are going to be really missing out. YOu could argue, sure: TFC was worth watching last year, a team that was entertainment value based on executing quality; this year, a bit of a calamity in the league. In MLS, no team is even close this year, Atlanta, like previous iterations of Dallas, are just good without anything special. 

I watch 3rd, 4th and lower tiers in Spain all the time, and really enjoy it. The games are played properly, they compete like hell, the fans are into it. It is not too glamorous, the players are not well known, it is not a D1. But there is support there. 

I am convinced, in any case, that this is a negotiation, and that the CPL and Ottawa are having much quieter, more sensible conversations that what we are offering here, me included. 

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

40 minutes ago, Keegan said:

Well of course, but no one was looking to usl anyways...

Was might well be accurate but we have no way of knowing at this point what all of the groups think about the alleged 500k salary cap that people in Ottawa and Edmonton have been telling us about on twitter and reddit in recent days and whether some of them that could like the Fury operate on something a lot closer to the salary budget that was originally envisaged for this league might see USL as the better way to go at this point, if they also had the option to move in that direction.

[Admin]

9 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I am convinced, in any case, that this is a negotiation, and that the CPL and Ottawa are having much quieter, more sensible conversations that what we are offering here, me included. 

[ChrisinOrleans]

1 hour ago, RickC said:

I totally agree that CPL's website, twitter feed, etc. should be fully bilingual. But, is this a bit of a chicken and egg thing? We pretty well know for a certainty that there will be no teams in Quebec in 2019. It now looks less likely there will be a CPL team in Ottawa in 2019 as well. So, does the league increase their expenses to go fully bilingue now, or when there is a Quebec or Ottawa team at least announced as "coming soon"?

I agree with lazlo_80's view that it's the Canadian vs league reality (budgets, level of play, other financial aspects) that may have the Fury at odds with CPL. But, if CPL succeeds and Fury joins, we all know which team(s) will be viewed as the Leaders, which as the Followers, and which as the Hated. OK, I lean a bit more towards the do it 'cause your Canadian aspect.

No. 

Either you accept Acadiens, Franco-Ontariens, Franco-Manitobans and the entirety of the Canadian Francophonie as integral and equal, or you don't. 

Why should Saint-Boniface and Saint-Norbert have to wait for the benevolence of the CanPL only after Québec or Ottawa join? Why should Acadiens have to be denied any communication? If the league continues to brand itself as 'by Canadians, for Canadians', then it can act like it. Either we count, or we don't. Geography is irrelevant.  

[Viruk42]

4 hours ago, ChrisinOrleans said:

I live in Orléans and hit up Ottawa games about 5 - 6 times a year. 

I'd rather them be in USL than a pub league with kids who played kick-the-ball once or twice in college or university. CanPL is looking worse and worse, and my original enthusiasm for both joining this forum and supporting the league is wavering daily.

Also, CanPL has yet to offer messaging in French and their translation is even worse than the government auto-message you get on your phone when a storm is coming.  

Je sais que ma Français est pauvre (je peux parler, mais je manque de pratique et ma grammaire n'a jamais été bon), mais j'ai pensé que le CPL site web était en Français et Anglais? Cependent, je suis d'accord que les médias sociaux doit être bilingue et ne sont pas maintenant. 

[Cblake]

Fury Fanatic is as connected as anyone to the Fury scene. Stuart has been a long time beat writer and has been a commentator on their tv broadcasts in the past. While I have no doubt his info is legit as we know sources can have their angle, agendas, so the info being floated out there likely has a purpose. 

I can see why the Fury are taking this wait and see approach to the CPL. Any new sports venture in this country is a gamble and as we know travel is not cheap. I am sure some involved have some idea of the costs/salaries that are being planned, so its not like they are completely unknown. Once the agents are at the table the info is sure to get out. 

[Rintaran]

Found the french site: http://fr.canpl.ca/  . Pretty easy to find, being right in the main navigation bar. 

Sadly not seeing any French social media for them though.

 

I wonder, @ChrisinOrleans, are you also upset that they don't have any First Nations-language versions of the site? I mean, they're Canadians too, and First Nations languages have been recognized as official languages...

 

Edit: It looks like their French-language site is not as up to date with releases. Time for them to seek out a French-language translator and content writer. Maybe a job for someone here?

Edited September 6, 2018 by Rintaran

[deschamp86]

36 minutes ago, ChrisinOrleans said:

No. 

Either you accept Acadiens, Franco-Ontariens, Franco-Manitobans and the entirety of the Canadian Francophonie as integral and equal, or you don't. 

Why should Saint-Boniface and Saint-Norbert have to wait for the benevolence of the CanPL only after Québec or Ottawa join? Why should Acadiens have to be denied any communication? If the league continues to brand itself as 'by Canadians, for Canadians', then it can act like it. Either we count, or we don't. Geography is irrelevant.  

Have you tried contacting them about this? Maybe this is something you can help with

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

 

[ChrisinOrleans]

11 minutes ago, deschamp86 said:

Have you tried contacting them about this? Maybe this is something you can help with

Yes, several times. I have contacted their website in English and French, and tweeted a thread at them as well. https://twitter.com/pennyforcliche/status/1014208379361714176

21 minutes ago, Rintaran said:

Found the french site: http://fr.canpl.ca/  . Pretty easy to find, being right in the main navigation bar. 

 

I mentioned earlier that the translation is awful. Likewise, translation =/= content. The video they did for "got game?" wasn't even translated. That's pretty uninviting. 

24 minutes ago, Rintaran said:

I wonder, @ChrisinOrleans, are you also upset that they don't have any First Nations-language versions of the site? I mean, they're Canadians too, and First Nations languages have been recognized as official languages...

 

Very much so. I mentioned on these forums a while back that I think each game should have an aboriginal ceremony of some kind. Kind of like how they walk onto the pitch holding the hands of a kids local team, maybe make it a team from a local aboriginal band or nation. That being said, it would be a logistical nightmare to do all aboriginal languages, but Cree, Ojibway and Inuktitut shouldn't be too hard to pin down, and they're the most common. 

38 minutes ago, Viruk42 said:

Je sais que ma Français est pauvre (je peux parler, mais je manque de pratique et ma grammaire n'a jamais été bon), mais j'ai pensé que le CPL site web était en Français et Anglais? Cependent, je suis d'accord que les médias sociaux doit être bilingue et ne sont pas maintenant. 

Beau travail!  

[Ansem]

3 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

The moratorium means that the CSA have engineered a situation where USL isn't an option for the other 7.

conspiracy theory much?

[Unnamed Trialist]

Just now, ChrisinOrleans said:

No. 

Either you accept Acadiens, Franco-Ontariens, Franco-Manitobans and the entirety of the Canadian Francophonie as integral and equal, or you don't. 

Why should Saint-Boniface and Saint-Norbert have to wait for the benevolence of the CanPL only after Québec or Ottawa join? Why should Acadiens have to be denied any communication? If the league continues to brand itself as 'by Canadians, for Canadians', then it can act like it. Either we count, or we don't. Geography is irrelevant.  

You are right, and considering how easy it is to translate basic texts, and how relatively inexpensive, it is lazy and disrespectful on the part of the CPL. 

The total content of written text produced on their site could be done in 3 days for under 500 dollars, and then you'd have to check it, and post it up and do the links. They could have it all done by next Wednesday, say Friday to be sure. 

All basic tweets can also be translated, I mean, they are doing like a few a week. 

edit: did not know they did have a French site, and even less so that the translations were poor, I would not know.

 

Edited September 6, 2018 by Unnamed Trialist