Ottawa CPL Club

[SpursFlu]

Im calling WWE on this one. Im expecting to see the Fury in the CPL

[Winnipeg Fury]

Greetings Voyageurs !  It has been many years since I have been on the forum.

Regardless of where the CPL starts in terms of quality and budget, you will see the quality improve vastly every year.  It will be no different than the CSL in that sense.  The league will grow exponentially in terms of quality every year.  And that means Canadians will grow in quality every year.

All that matters is packing our parks and ensuring we have strong crowds.  It appears as though Winnipeg & Hamilton are already well on their way.  

This is OUR league, Canada's league and it must succeed.

Valour member #462

[Alex D]

Conspiracy theory:

Ottawa Fury only intend on operating until they can sell their USL franchise to some dumb schmuck down south. 

[shermanator]

 

[Ansem]

Just sharing

[CDNFootballer]

23 hours ago, mpg_29 said:

Right but this is where things aren't adding up for me. Even with the lowest rumored CPL salary cap it would still be in the upper range of USL salary budget. So I'm confused when people are saying the reason the Fury aren't joining is because the salary cap is too small. 

Either the Fury are currently well above USL payroll average or there is much more to it than just the salary cap issue when it comes to them joining the CPL...

There is more to it. The Fury's doing damage control now and will make it sound like they have a superior product to CPL by pushing the story that they would be paying much less to their players in CPL, they're trying to hold onto fans as they feel the push back from their decision and will say things and be "sources" to put out that line.

 

 

[Symp_Res]

OSEG is so right.  The Fury is way too good for the CPL.

[jedinathan]

7 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Was might well be accurate but we have no way of knowing at this point what all of the groups think about the alleged 500k salary cap that people in Ottawa and Edmonton have been telling us about on twitter and reddit in recent days and whether some of them that could like the Fury operate on something a lot closer to the salary budget that was originally envisaged for this league might see USL as the better way to go at this point, if they also had the option to move in that direction.

Who in Edmonton was mentioning this? The only sub-mil cap I've heard mentioned was by York9 and Pacific FC. 

[jedinathan]

The way I've been viewing this whole Ottawa thing is as follows.

Ottawa saw a chance to hit the ground running and seeing as how they were the only club playing that had a shot at moving straight over to the league, it would seem that they wanted to get the edge. Who could resist snapping up and grabbing some of the hottest Canadians before the league started, showcasing them for a year in the USL, then going and dominating the CPL?!?!?! No one! So Ottawa gambled. They picked a number they thought would be a salary cap, aimed for it, and assumed they would be able to grandfather in player contracts. 

Then the CPL starts actually laying down some rules. All of a sudden, some clubs want to spend less, and the cap starts to lower. Then people start talking about how to create a competitive and level playing field from the get go. Ottawa starts getting frustrated and refuses to budge. CPL calls the bluff, and Ottawa is forced to either cut all its players and join the CPL or stick it out in the USL until such a time as when the CPL allows the players to move along over with the club, or the players are out of contract and it just makes sense of the club to move over (also: third option, which I personally don't like but should put it out there... the club just wraps it up and folds). 

All this in addition to what I'm hearing is a massive salary that Ottawa is carrying. To say they are above the standard USL salary would be a bit of an understatement. There's a lot of players on a lot of money there, and to say (as I've seen on twitter) that they "wouldn't be able to support their families" is just not true (that or living expenses are A LOT more in Ottawa than I would expect). 

Did Ottawa do the right thing? Sure, for their bottom line for now, and they get to act the hero by providing some very targeted narrative about supporting Canadian players. Did they do the right thing for CanSoc? Not in my opinion. Players who deserved as much as they're getting would have found other clubs that would have paid them the same or comparable. But Ottawa wouldn't have been as stacked on Canadian talent as they currently are, and would have been forced to take on some younger developing players to fill in gaps. 

TL:DR Ottawa gambled that they could carry their current salary and roster into the CPL. When they couldn't they balked and are creating a narrative for a positive spin. 

[Complete Homer]

27 minutes ago, jedinathan said:

TL:DR Ottawa gambled that they could carry their current salary and roster into the CPL. When they couldn't they balked and are creating a narrative for a positive spin. 

I'm still not even convinced of this, given what a USL player agent said in The Athletic what top USL players make (6000/month on 6 to 8 month contracts) would fit well even within the lowered 850,000 figure 

Seems more likely to me that Ottawa has got some good relationships with MLS teams and CPL is wary of letting loaned players count as free against the cap. The players and salaries FuryFanatic quoted on twitter were MLS players on loan at Ottawa, who would obviously make more than CPL can realistically afford

If that's the case, I can see both sides' point. CPL should be careful to avoid the scenario where whoever gets the most MLS loads wins, but I also don't like the idea that Ottawa would be giving up their (loaned) star players even if available again next year

[jedinathan]

5 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

I'm still not even convinced of this, given what a USL player agent said in The Athletic what top USL players make (6000/month on 6 to 8 month contracts) would fit well even within the lowered 850,000 figure 

Seems more likely to me that Ottawa has got some good relationships with MLS teams and CPL is wary of letting loaned players count as free against the cap. The players and salaries FuryFanatic quoted on twitter were MLS players on loan at Ottawa, who would obviously make more than CPL can realistically afford

If that's the case, I can see both sides' point. CPL should be careful to avoid the scenario where whoever gets the most MLS loads wins, but I also don't like the idea that Ottawa would be giving up their (loaned) star players even if available again next year

From what I've heard over the last few days, there are players on double that for Ottawa right now. Granted its from one source, but I believe it. 
So ya. This Ottawa narrative is VERY self serving, and Ottawa is overpaying for what league they're playing in, in my opinion (I also wouldn't expect many players making that kind of money for the first few years of the CPL either for the record). 

EDIT: That's also for a player not on loan. I agree, with players on loan, the salary is waaaaay over what it should be. 

(Quick math check: 6000x8=48,000) 

Edited September 7, 2018 by jedinathan

[Complete Homer]

8 minutes ago, jedinathan said:

 

(Quick math check: 6000x8=48,000) 

I'm going from the perspective that not all Ottawa players are earning that of a top player, and that Ottawa is probably not paying the salaries of loaned players

[jedinathan]

3 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

I'm going from the perspective that not all Ottawa players are earning that of a top player, and that Ottawa is probably not paying the salaries of loaned players

Without revealing too much, people are assuming that Ottawa has a salary of 1 mil. Reality is that its north of that number. 

When FCEd did loan agreements, it typically was set up for receiving club to match the salary of the player. Obviously Ottawa wouldn't have to pay for the salaries of Montreal players, but I imagine other loans they would. 
 

[Toronto Ruffrider]

18 minutes ago, jedinathan said:

From what I've heard over the last few days, there are players on double that for Ottawa right now. Granted its from one source, but I believe it. 
So ya. This Ottawa narrative is VERY self serving, and Ottawa is overpaying for what league they're playing in, in my opinion (I also wouldn't expect many players making that kind of money for the first few years of the CPL either for the record). 

EDIT: That's also for a player not on loan. I agree, with players on loan, the salary is waaaaay over what it should be. 

(Quick math check: 6000x8=48,000) 

I would agree that Ottawa is overpaying for players in USL. By all accounts Ottawa is spending way over the USL average, but not getting a great deal in return - just a mid-table standing. Perhaps getting half-decent Canadian players is just expensive - i.e. $500k on Canadian players won't get you as much bang for your buck as $500k on internationals. I'm just thinking aloud.

[jedinathan]

1 minute ago, Toronto Ruffrider said:

I would agree that Ottawa is overpaying for players in USL. By all accounts Ottawa is spending way over the USL average, but not getting a great deal in return - just a mid-table standing. Perhaps getting half-decent Canadian players is just expensive - i.e. $500k on Canadian players won't get you as much bang for your buck as $500k on internationals. I'm just thinking aloud.

There's every chance of that... But I don't know that it would be like that. I mean it kind of puts an end to thoughts of having a guy like Ricketts in Edmonton in year one, and even a guy like Shome would be a pricy player to have (on $100,000 with MLS), but there should be plenty of Canadians out there for less... Heck I think I could name a handful off the FCEd academy or players who played for FCEd that would be solid starters. 

I mean, Ottawa isn't exactly running away with the league despite paying well in excess of the league average... So I dunno...

[Complete Homer]

16 minutes ago, jedinathan said:

There's every chance of that... But I don't know that it would be like that. I mean it kind of puts an end to thoughts of having a guy like Ricketts in Edmonton in year one, and even a guy like Shome would be a pricy player to have (on $100,000 with MLS), but there should be plenty of Canadians out there for less... Heck I think I could name a handful off the FCEd academy or players who played for FCEd that would be solid starters. 

I mean, Ottawa isn't exactly running away with the league despite paying well in excess of the league average... So I dunno...

Fair enough, I hadn't considered that the Canadian domestic market could be that badly distorted. 

Edited September 7, 2018 by Complete Homer

[jedinathan]

1 minute ago, Complete Homer said:

Fair enough, I hadn't considered that the Canadian domestic market could be that badly distorted. 

I think its an unknown.... and some rightfully deserve a large sum, but hardly all. 

Ottawa's narrative seems to be that they're paying what Canadians are worth, and that the CPL salary will be lower than USL due because they can't afford the quality. 

Ironically, Ottawa barely won tonight against TFC II, a side that was undoubtedly paid less than the Ottawa side. Just another example of money not equating to winning sides, or a higher quality. 

[Lord Bob]

I mean, whether Ottawa would rather blow up their team to join CanPL or blow up their team within two years in USL anyway because that's what happens in USL is interesting, but not relevant.

The CSA can't sanction a direct competitor to CanPL like USL. That would be insane. Why would you want to give owners and potential owners a chance to drive to Rochester rather than fly to Langford, for the benefit of American soccer? And as much as the Fury have done for Canadian men's soccer, it's not ever going to be as much as seven other teams and counting.

It's nothing personal, but this can't be accepted.

[Cblake]

8 minutes ago, Benjamin Massey said:

I mean, whether Ottawa would rather blow up their team to join CanPL or blow up their team within two years in USL anyway because that's what happens in USL is interesting, but not relevant.

The CSA can't sanction a direct competitor to CanPL like USL. That would be insane. Why would you want to give owners and potential owners a chance to drive to Rochester rather than fly to Langford, for the benefit of American soccer? And as much as the Fury have done for Canadian men's soccer, it's not ever going to be as much as seven other teams and counting.

It's nothing personal, but this can't be accepted.

 

Problem I could potentially for the CSA in blocking sanctioning for Ottawa is Toronto FCII. As long as the CPL wants nothing to do with MLS reserve teams and thus TFC is allowed to field theirs in USL, it could be very helpful for Ottawa. 

[Lord Bob]

1 minute ago, Cblake said:

Problem I could potentially for the CSA in blocking sanctioning for Ottawa is Toronto FCII. As long as the CPL wants nothing to do with MLS reserve teams and thus TFC is allowed to field theirs in USL, it could be very helpful for Ottawa. 

Legally, that's an interesting question, although TFC reserves dropping to USLD3 in 2019 mighy affect it.

"CanPL is 'Canadian division one' and you'll sanction the MLS teams to play American division one but you won't let us play American division two:" also interesting. But I think we have to take the risk of a judge ballsing it all up, because "you'll let the Ottawa Fury play USL but won't let the Hypothetical Disillusioned Moving CanPL Team do it?!" seems really bad. I watched the NASL for years, you don't want to get into the place where USL can whisper "you know, our travel costs are lower and Didier Drogba might visit..." into Halifax's ear.

[garmc]

47 minutes ago, Cblake said:

Problem I could potentially for the CSA in blocking sanctioning for Ottawa is Toronto FCII. As long as the CPL wants nothing to do with MLS reserve teams and thus TFC is allowed to field theirs in USL, it could be very helpful for Ottawa. 

Well TFC II is a reserve team. Not to mention the fact they are dropping down to USLD3 next year.

[Rocket Robin]

Ottawa Fury took a five hour bus trip to Toronto tonight.  They beat TFC II 4-3 (usually no big deal as TFC are the last place team but as the MLS team is not playing this weekend because of the international break,  they dropped six MLS-calibre starters....

Nick Hagglund, Jason Hernandez, Ashton Morgan in the backline.

Jon Bakero and Ryan Telfer in the midfield and Jordan Hamilton at forward.  

A crowd of 207 from the USL website  (school is back in so no children were here).  TFC had one of their supporter groups show up tonight who left at 65 minutes so they could stand in the parking lot behind the iron fencing and the south end goal and chant.  Fury had supporters too like family and friends of local players David Monsalve and Adonijah Reid... also possibly from locals Nana Attakora and Chris Mannella.  

Some of their goals...wow....Cristian Portilla scored directly from a cornerkick.  (I don't remember seeing that in person since I saw Diego Maradona {yes the famous one and not his namesake nephew} score in a special exhibition game for Toronto Italia).   Kevin Oliveira took a 30 yard freekick from the left that had Thomas Meilleur-Giguere in a crowd in the box head in a 6 yarder right down the middle.  How did the ball find him with more than a dozen players standing two yards from each other?   And Adonijah Reid scored the winner at 76 minutes on a header  after captain Carl Haworth ran down the wing and centered a cross.  

One more chance to see them at Lamport Stadium in three weeks probably without the MLS players loaded on to TFC II.  

Now five hours to get back to Ottawa and prepare for tomorrow night's exhibition game against Montreal Impact.  

    

Edited September 7, 2018 by Rocket Robin
more to add

[zen]

5 minutes ago, Rocket Robin said:

Ottawa Fury took a five hour bus trip to Toronto tonight.  They beat TFC II 4-3 (usually no big deal as TFC are the last place team but as the MLS team is not playing this weekend because of the international break,  they dropped six MLS-calibre starters....

Nick Hagglund, Jason Hernandez, Ashton Morgan in the backline.

Jon Bakero and Ryan Telfer in the midfield and Jordan Hamilton at forward.  

A crowd of 207 from the USL website  (school is back in so no children were here).  TFC had one of their supporter groups show up tonight who left at 65 minutes so they could stand in the parking lot behind the iron fencing and the south end goal and chant.  Fury had supporters too like family and friends of local players David Monsalve and Adonijah Reid... also possibly from locals Nana Attakora and Chris Mannella.  

Some of their goals...wow....Cristian Portilla scored directly from a cornerkick.  (I don't remember seeing that in person since I saw Diego Maradona {yes the famous one and not his namesake nephew} score in a special exhibition game for Toronto Italia).   Kevin Oliveira took a 30 yard freekick from the left that had Thomas Meilleur-Giguere in a crowd in the box head in a 6 yarder right down the middle.  How did the ball find him with more than a dozen players standing two yards from each other?   And Adonijah Reid scored the winner at 76 minutes on a header  after captain Carl Haworth ran down the wing and centered a cross.  

One more chance to see them at Lamport Stadium in three weeks probably without the MLS players loaded on to TFC II.  

    

LOOL. Only MLS calibre starter in there maybe is Nick Hagglund, and he is a disaster.

[Rocket Robin]

11 minutes ago, zen said:

LOOL. Only MLS calibre starter in there maybe is Nick Hagglund, and he is a disaster.

Well they've all been starters in the last few months....but maybe no more than two at a time!  

[Watchmen]

A lot of the focus has been on the roster/salary cap, and I'm not saying that's not a factor.  But I also wonder how much of the negotiation is the CPL saying "it costs X amount to buy in to the league" and Ottawa saying "We've been paying Canadian players for years who would have been with Unattached FC without us.  We've been building a brand and supporting Canadian soccer in this country for years, and we shouldn't have to pay X to buy in because we've already been paying our dues."  And if that's the case, I'd find it hard to argue against them.