CPL/L1C - Division II - Pro/Rel discussion

[Shway]

21 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Wondered how long it would be until we got that sort of post and whether we would have to wait for a Vaughan team to be revealed as being Azzurri or for people to find out that FC Manitoba = Ital-Inter SC in MMSL terms for knees to start a-jerking over ethnic clubs.

How many people do you think are going to turn up for a league like this in Edmonton when FCE draws flies a lot of the time to Clarke Stadium? The key here maybe is that these are genuine clubs that have been around for decades as opposed to some rich guy's franchise play thing. If they want to play in a national format league with a PDL-type roster to complete a player pathway concept why would the CSA want to place a limit on their ambitions if they get a national women's league showcasing top U-Sports and NCAA scholarship players out of it?

I'm so confused. Was this just a tangent that I wasn't suppose to really take in?

I don't think it's okay for a D2 team to have not only the name Scottish, but also their logo is the Scottish FA logo. 
Vaughan is officially Vaughan Soccer Club, their nickname  the Azzurri (blue in Italian) is denoting to their Italian history, and their colours - which is fine. Woodbridge has done the same. But they are not called the Vaughan Italians. 

FC Manitoba is FC Manitoba...their close affiliate is Ital-Inter SC. Which is fine...but their professional aspirations brand is FC Manitoba. 

It's not only who will turn up, but the overall look/perspective of the league. With names like that, its very "adult league" and a lot less professional. 

Plainly put. It's weird. 

21 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

A short season PDL type format can sustain low budget long distance bus travel because student athletes have the time on their hands necessary to make it viable and that makes soccer viable as a paid spectator sport in a remote city like Thunder Bay. D3 leagues like L1O and PLSQ are not likely to stretch beyond an easy driving distance from Toronto and Montreal in a sustained manner because players with regular jobs and family commitments enter into the equation in that context. Different types of rosters are being catered to so there's room for both types of league.

I agree with most of this.

I think League 1 was making the right strides in reducing the amount of games. An 18 game season spread out over 4 months is perfect. I also think League 2 needs to happen, by cutting the amount of teams in league 1 in half resulting in 10 teams each division. Travelling isn't an issue, neither are part-time jobs for the ones who play League 1.

League 1 has become the new pinnacle for young aspiring footballers in the GTA, it just has to be catered to their needs - which is early end of season especially for the college ballers. If league 1 isn't for you, theres also OSL Elite which also can be competitive.

I just find it weird how D2 is attempting to be established, with a lowered than/on par D3 plan...all when the D3 landscape hasn't been completed. 

[BuzzAndSting]

45 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

How many people do you think are going to turn up for a league like this in Edmonton when FCE draws flies a lot of the time to Clarke Stadium? The key here maybe is that these are genuine clubs that have been around for decades as opposed to some rich guy's franchise play thing. If they want to play in a national format league with a PDL-type roster to complete a player pathway concept why would the CSA want to place a limit on their ambitions if they get a national women's league showcasing top U-Sports and NCAA scholarship players out of it?

This explains a lot.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

21 hours ago, Shway said:

I'm so confused. Was this just a tangent that I wasn't suppose to really take in? ...

This board has been around in various incarnations since the late 1990s, after it was started by an Iranian guy from Edmonton called Reza Khalili.

https://www.thevoyageurs.org/forums/topic/11967-voyageurs-history-and-mythology-explained/?do=findComment&comment=174205

If you went back 10 to 20 years lots of bile used to be spewed about ethnic clubs because the only sanctioned Canada only domestic pro league at that point (at times D2 under the CSA and at others D3 under the OSA with no discernible change in how it operated visible as a consequence) had teams with names like Toronto Croatia and St Catherines Roma on board.

The moment Edmonton Scottish raised their head above the parapet in a D2 sort of way I knew it was only a matter of time until somebody made an issue out of it. British oriented names were not the hot button that really set off the usual suspects on that though, so that wasn't necessarily going to be the trigger.

It tended to be Croatian, Serbian and Italian themed CPSL team names or Toronto Lazio as a rumoured potential franchise for the CUSL project that led to the worst tirades, so I suspected it might take Vaughan Azzurri to enter the fray (not 100% sure they are actually involved) to really get it going again.

Edited April 24, 2021 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Bison44]

 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

On 4/12/2021 at 6:07 PM, CPLinsider said:

My AB source tells me a official press release for Div 2 is in store this week... as early as this Friday.  Can confirm that TSS and Highlanders are out.  All the money they have is tied up in some multi- year USL deal and they can't pay the $300K Div 2 franchise fee.  Teams will be as rumored:

West
Foothills
Sask Summer Series
Okanagan
Scottish
BC Tigers
Manitoba

East
Barrie
Blainville
Thunder Bay
Vaughan
Oakville
Beauport

Will either be called Canadian Development League or Canadian National League.  No word on womens yet besides Foothills and Scottish.

Having visited the BC Tigers website:

https://bctigers.com/

They definitely look like another contender on the ethnic club angle. Used to be known as Punjab Tigers apparently.

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/soccer-league-bans-b-c-pre-teens-from-tournaments-because-team-is-too-diverse

VANCOUVER — They are a diverse group of players, the lads from the B.C. Tigers summer soccer club. Some parents have dubbed the Surrey-based outfit “Team United Nations,” thanks to its ethnically mixed roster of pre-teen boys, who come from East Indian, Caucasian and African backgrounds.

No big surprise there. Surrey is one of the most multicultural cities in Canada, and the Tigers preach inclusion. Originally known as the Punjab Tigers, the club changed its name in 2009 to B.C. Tigers, “to allow for diversity and broadband [sic] its efforts to integrate [sic] into other communities,” according to a team website.

But the Tigers went too far, for some. The team of under-13-year-olds (U13) has been banned from official tournament play because its roster features too many kids who aren’t of East Indian descent...

Edited April 25, 2021 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Ansem]

1 hour ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Having visited the BC Tigers website:

https://bctigers.com/

They definitely look like another contender on the ethnic club angle. Used to be known as Punjab Tigers apparently.

 

I must be blind but I only see Canadians 🤔

[CDNFootballer]

On 4/12/2021 at 9:07 AM, CPLinsider said:

My AB source tells me a official press release for Div 2 is in store this week... as early as this Friday. 

12 days later, looks like anonymous internet guys "sources" were wrong.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

The CSA AGM is usually early May and that's when they would need to be sanctioned for a smooth 2022 launch so we'll have a clearer picture soon enough.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

On 4/23/2021 at 8:07 PM, Shway said:

...League 1 has become the new pinnacle for young aspiring footballers in the GTA, it just has to be catered to their needs - which is early end of season especially for the college ballers...

College players are typically in the 18-22 range which is not when soccer players are usually at their peak. I'm not in the loop enough on southern Ontario soccer matters to know for sure what is going on in the GTA nowadays but it would be interesting to see what the quality of L1O is like compared to top OSL and unsanctioned CSL teams that have older players often from a recent immigrant background that have not been through any OSA sanctioned pay to play system. The second tweet below rang true from what I used to see happening when I was still reasonably in the loop:

It's never been clear to me that the rise of suburban youth clubs with huge overall registration numbers as the main pathway for elite talent after the demise of the youth setup of the old NSL was a net positive. The emergence of MLS academies was very important as it helped to create more of a meritocratic system again so that the likes of Alphonso Davies (yes I know he's not from the GTA) get fast tracked in development terms regardless of how well off their families are.

Edited April 25, 2021 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[ted]

On 4/24/2021 at 11:47 AM, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Having visited the BC Tigers website:

https://bctigers.com/

They definitely look like another contender on the ethnic club angle. Used to be known as Punjab Tigers apparently.

And here I am, twenty-plus years later, trying once again to help you to understand why that is wrong. <sigh>

The example of the Tigers is great because it is exactly what I (and others) have been arguing should happen all along. Rather than restrict their "target audience" to a specific national group, they have decided to be inclusive of all and play under the name BC Tigers. This honours the club's origins without falling into the "Canadians don't like soccer" trope which is reinforced when using objectively national names. If you name your team after a foreign nation, you are saying that the team is not for Canadians. 

So no, there can be no complaint about BC Tigers, well not about ethnic identity. I would be happy to slam them for claiming to represent all of BC.

[Tigers]

Not quite the same, but London Irish, London Scottish, and London Welsh all exist in the professional* rugby structure in England.

*how professional is very much in flux below the Premiership 

[ted]

2 hours ago, Tigers said:

Not quite the same, but London Irish, London Scottish, and London Welsh all exist in the professional* rugby structure in England.

And if soccer was a popular spectator sport built into the DNA of sporting culture in Canada as it is in England, we could have whatever names we wanted. 

For whatever historical reasons, selling professional soccer in Canada is an uphill battle and the branding and marketing of clubs needs to build support, not alienate potential ticket buyers.

 

[An Observer]

4 hours ago, Tigers said:

Not quite the same, but London Irish, London Scottish, and London Welsh all exist in the professional* rugby structure in England.

*how professional is very much in flux below the Premiership 

Those 3 have been on occasion in the top flight...especially Irish and Scottish...If memory serves, in the 90s those 2 were consistently there

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

21 hours ago, ted said:

And here I am, twenty-plus years later, trying once again to help you to understand why that is wrong. <sigh>...

The real issue here is why we have multiple sources posting or tweeting about a divide on the direction of where to take this would be D2 that may or may not revolve around perceived "lax vetting" that appears to be linked to the possible involvement of an African oriented club in Edmonton allegedly funded by Alphonso Davies and a Punjabi community oriented club in Surrey that may or may not have failed to make the cut in L1 BC terms.

That potentially moves well beyond the age old club naming issue to a culture of deliberately marginalizing certain stakeholders within the wider soccer community regardless of what they choose to call their clubs, which was arguably the hidden subtext to what the club naming issue was always really all about anyway.

Edited April 27, 2021 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Bison44]

Jesus,  percieved, appears, possible, allegedly, may or may not.  I've never seen so many qualifiers in one sentence.  

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

If I failed to do that you or someone else would be using the lack of an official announcement so far as the angle of attack instead. Meanwhile we have franchise based leagues like L1O and PLSQ sanctioned at the D3 level rather than using the promotion and relegation approach that was adopted for NPL in Australia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_National_Premier_Leagues

The approach used at the semi-pro level in Canadian soccer provides a way to use boardroom politics at the provincial association level that are often dominated by the registration numbers associated with large suburban youth clubs to actively marginalize ethnic clubs by not allowing them a pathway to D3 through what happens on the field of play.

Edited April 27, 2021 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Bison44]

CRIPES...angle of attack??  How about "hey where did you hear that?".  When I hear something is alleged, supposedly, possible and may or may not be a thing, I am curious..and I couldnt find a story, or link etc.  Something as big as Davies being involved in a club in Edmonton would be big news and I'd like to read about it.    

[longlugan]

3 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

If I failed to do that you or someone else would be using the lack of an official announcement so far as the angle of attack instead. Meanwhile we have franchise based leagues like L1O and PLSQ sanctioned at the D3 level rather than using the promotion and relegation approach that was adopted for NPL in Australia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_National_Premier_Leagues

The approach used at the semi-pro level in Canadian soccer provides a way to use boardroom politics at the provincial association level that are often dominated by the registration numbers associated with large suburban youth clubs to actively marginalize ethnic clubs by not allowing them a pathway to D3 through what happens on the field of play.

The tinfoil hat is strong with this one.

[m-g-williams]

5 hours ago, Bison44 said:

Jesus,  percieved, appears, possible, allegedly, may or may not.  I've never seen so many qualifiers in one sentence.  

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

16 hours ago, Bison44 said:

How about "hey where did you hear that?"....

There we go. Now we are onto the other angle of attack. In this thread or on twitter is the answer (feel free to browse if you haven't been paying attention). I used the language I did because anonymous internet sources are involved for the most part. Here's a summary of recent info/gossip you could have easily accessed through Google translate after using a search engine for "Alphonso Davies CanD2":

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=pt&tl=en&u=https://canplbrasil.blogspot.com/2021/04/mais-sobre-d2-nome-e-times-confirmados.html

and here's a tweet you could have found for yourself by accessing the previous page in the thread:

and the post that provided the Alphonso Davies angle that is also on the previous page:

 

Edited April 28, 2021 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Bison44]

Thanks for the links. 

 

[SpursFlu]

What is the second team under TBC in yellow? Can't read it

And for people not familiar with BC Tigers they have been known to throw around a lot of money

Edited April 28, 2021 by SpursFlu

[toontownman]

TSS Rovers maybe. Purposely not visible I expect. 

[Shway]

11 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

What is the second team under TBC in yellow? Can't read it

And for people not familiar with BC Tigers they have been known to throw around a lot of money

They sound like GS United of the West.

A lot of former pros/names that have been mentioned here have played for them.

Dero, Jordan Webb, Anthony Bahadur, Jerome Baker, Alim Karin, Tommy Kouzmanis, and a lot of others. 

Club would send the team on all inclusive trips for winning Ontario Cup & Nationals. 

Real proper amateur club. Was arguably the best men’s team, before L1O came around.

[rydermike]

17 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

What is the second team under TBC in yellow? Can't read it

And for people not familiar with BC Tigers they have been known to throw around a lot of money

It's FC Tigers Vancouver that are the rumoured team for D2. https://www.fctigers.ca/

Not BC Tigers. https://www.bctigers.com/

Similar names. Different clubs

Edited April 29, 2021 by rydermike