CPL/L1C - Division II - Pro/Rel discussion

[toontownman]

1 minute ago, Cblake said:

Does the CSA establish the D3 regulations or the provincial associations? D3 at this point is a provincial thing and I am not even sure the standards for D2 exist at this point. 

That fact that there is no clarity, transparency or clear answers to all these questions shows it desperately needs addressing. The CSA needs to sort out a clear pyramid and pathway, like their strategic plan. If there is no D2 there must be a plan at some point to build one, so lets put as a target/goal but in a plan.

There just has to be leadership, organization and clear communication from the top down.

[Watchmen]

5 minutes ago, toontownman said:

That fact that there is no clarity, transparency or clear answers to all these questions shows it desperately needs addressing. The CSA needs to sort out a clear pyramid and pathway, like their strategic plan. If there is no D2 there must be a plan at some point to build one, so lets put as a target/goal but in a plan.

There just has to be leadership, organization and clear communication from the top down.

Isn't this the sort of thing Jason Devos was working? I recall him working on "national standards" or some sort.

[Bison44]

I dont know if there is much "work" going on with this kind of stuff at CSA at all. 

[toontownman]

I remember this looked good at the time.

https://www.wakingthered.com/platform/amp/2014/1/23/5338104/canadian-soccer-association-strategic-plan-2026-world-cup-bid

Ironically the link to the actually document says "oops this no longer exists" just like their follow up plan after 2018?

Edit. Or maybe they did do something similar and I missed it. Just seems like with the new leaderships changes and everything else this type of stuff stalled.

Edited March 25, 2021 by toontownman

[CPLWoodenSpoon]

FC manitoba announced their new gaffer but also in the press release 

"Though FC Manitoba will not participate in the 2021 USL League Two season, the club is participating in a joint interprovincial initiative with Calgary Foothills Soccer Club to provide a Canadian solution for the 2021 season."

 

https://www.footballclubmanitoba.ca/news_article/show/1155446

[CPLinsider]

12 hours ago, CPLWoodenSpoon said:

FC manitoba announced their new gaffer but also in the press release 

"Though FC Manitoba will not participate in the 2021 USL League Two season, the club is participating in a joint interprovincial initiative with Calgary Foothills Soccer Club to provide a Canadian solution for the 2021 season."

 

https://www.footballclubmanitoba.ca/news_article/show/1155446

The inter province initiative talked about confirms FC Manitoba plays the div2 show case tourney with Chill + Scottish in July. Hapgood is leading the charge for this from Calgary.

Also hearing that SK Belan group is still involved & Vaughan (possibly) here out east.

[m-g-williams]

9 hours ago, CPLinsider said:

The inter province initiative talked about confirms FC Manitoba plays the div2 show case tourney with Chill + Scottish in July. Hapgood is leading the charge for this from Calgary.

Also hearing that SK Belan group is still involved & Vaughan (possibly) here out east.

That's all encouraging news! I guess there might be some benefits to the pandemic after all. 

Also . . . isn't Vaughan in the GTA?

[toontownman]

15 hours ago, CPLinsider said:

The inter province initiative talked about confirms FC Manitoba plays the div2 show case tourney with Chill + Scottish in July. Hapgood is leading the charge for this from Calgary.

Also hearing that SK Belan group is still involved & Vaughan (possibly) here out east.

That would be interesting and encouraging, if not pretty unlikely. At best the pro team is 2 years away so setting up some opportunities for SK players that could form a foundation to supplement the CPL team would be great. 

[Aird25]

1 hour ago, toontownman said:

That would be interesting and encouraging, if not pretty unlikely. At best the pro team is 2 years away so setting up some opportunities for SK players that could form a foundation to supplement the CPL team would be great. 

I'm sure the two groups will work together with no egos getting in the way, for the betterment of soccer in this country,

[Ivan]

18 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

I'm sure the two groups will work together with no egos getting in the way, for the betterment of soccer in this country,

I hope so, but not usually the way soccer works in this country.  Which has always held us back for years and years.

Disclaimer: Apologies to @Aird25 if this was sarcasm.

[toontownman]

2 minutes ago, Ivan said:

Disclaimer: Apologies to @Aird25 if this was sarcasm.

Yes. Likewise Apologies to @Aird25 if it wasn't!

[Aird25]

@Ivan @toontownman it was very much meant as sarcasm for the reasons you mentioned, and the fact that it sounds like the two groups have already decided to go their separate ways

[CPLWoodenSpoon]

On 3/31/2021 at 10:34 PM, CPLinsider said:

The inter province initiative talked about confirms FC Manitoba plays the div2 show case tourney with Chill + Scottish in July. Hapgood is leading the charge for this from Calgary.

Also hearing that SK Belan group is still involved & Vaughan (possibly) here out east.

AFIK Chill will not be part of any showcase, and will not be doing anything this year.

[Aird25]

CPL Division II is an oxymoron, but it's extremely representative of how discombobulated professional soccer has always been in this country

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Don't agree with the negative spin in this Reddit post (a Canadian version of PDL would be a positive development IMO) but think it's noteworthy because the poster has a reasonable track record on knowing what's happening.

Edited April 8, 2021 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[toontownman]

The CSA need to take charge of it and ensure there is a transparent and concrete pathway from youth through PDL, D3, D2 and CPL. Whomever run the leagues don't have to like each other but they do need to respect their role in the pyramid and work together where necessary.

 God forbid there was a growth plan or 5-10 year strategic plan from the CSA rather than people having to do their own thing and get things done causing such a mess and confusion.* 

The D2 could be a really positive impact to the long term growth of the game but only if it's done right and is clearly a step up from D3.  I am excited for the announcement and info when it finally comes.

*stated with absolute ignorance. Maybe the CSA have been involved from the start and have a plan.

[CPLinsider]

44 minutes ago, toontownman said:

Maybe the CSA have been involved from the start and have a plan.

I know that CSA/DeVos & CSB have been involved in the D2 discussion since the beginning.  The talk this league won't be sanctioned and out of their scope is absurd.  CSB has interest in the league and will buy it after 22 or 23 if it works out.  There is a franchise fee to play + standards including game-day experience, social media, U23 mins, broadcasting &c.

People should realize that clubs playing in this have history and older than CPL teams by a century in some cases.  There's nothing wrong with building path ways from grass-roots to D2 so why this is spun as something bad for Canada Soccer is crazy.  The league is built to provide more chances for CDN players and is shaping the pyramid.  Because of this there is movement to have six regional D3 leagues ... promoting AB league to D3 status, creating a Sask + Manitoba league and Atlantic D3 as well.

Also interesting is the Reddit poster didn't say any thing about the women's league that's being driven by the same group so maybe they're not really in the know?

[Shway]

I think it’s obvious that D2 will be necessary  to complete the football structure....but is this too soon? I think it is!

I like the idea of solidifying the D3 landscape with launching the necessary leagues from coast to coast. It allows the peak (CPL) to be sustained by the foundation (D3).

Now, I think through time, we’ll see D3 teams increase in expansion, and have aspirations to complete at the next level.  We will see CPL expansion and teams that are consistently “bottom dwellers”. I think this will naturally foster the creation of a D2 league, that can align with the leagues goal of promotion/relegation.

Right now a D2 league would just be unnecessary noise, and confusion. I doubt it would be coast to coast (I don’t mean divisional), and it would be  a glorified D3 league with a little bit more paid players. 
As we see that D3 and inexperienced players have  a massive presence on CPL teams. This tells me although there is a gap in the structure, there isn’t a need that will be addressed.

So as my mother would say “Take Time” 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

9 hours ago, Shway said:

I think it’s obvious that D2 will be necessary  to complete the football structure....but is this too soon? I think it is! ...

A PDL equivalent revolving primarily around local U-Sports and NCAA scholarship players could and should have been done a long time ago and is different in scope to what is being done at the D3 level with L1O and PLSQ that involves a longer season with more of an open age format.

[yellowsweatygorilla]

10 hours ago, Shway said:

I think it’s obvious that D2 will be necessary  to complete the football structure....but is this too soon? I think it is!

I like the idea of solidifying the D3 landscape with launching the necessary leagues from coast to coast. It allows the peak (CPL) to be sustained by the foundation (D3).

Now, I think through time, we’ll see D3 teams increase in expansion, and have aspirations to complete at the next level.  We will see CPL expansion and teams that are consistently “bottom dwellers”. I think this will naturally foster the creation of a D2 league, that can align with the leagues goal of promotion/relegation.

Right now a D2 league would just be unnecessary noise, and confusion. I doubt it would be coast to coast (I don’t mean divisional), and it would be  a glorified D3 league with a little bit more paid players. 
As we see that D3 and inexperienced players have  a massive presence on CPL teams. This tells me although there is a gap in the structure, there isn’t a need that will be addressed.

So as my mother would say “Take Time” 

But D2 and D3 are just arbitrary labels. In this case D2 refers to being sanctioned by CSA and D3 by provincial bodies. It's purely an administrative piece that this is a D2 league as they have teams in multiple jurisdictions. Given the players they intend to target, it's going to be equivalent to L1O/PLSQ.

I also don't understand the negative spin on reddit.

[Shway]

Ahh thanks guys @Ozzie_the_parrot @yellowsweatygorilla.

I just don't understand the purpose of creating something similar to L10, PLSQ but then looking for a different designation, that would essentially be lower than those leagues. It's overall confusing, as you can tell.

It's not going to change the structure in Ontario or Quebec with guys who play L10/PLSQ, and then leave to go to U-Sports or NCAA. So if it's just a shorter season being the difference, why would the CSA sanction it as something different - when theoretically it's not.

[yellowsweatygorilla]

3 minutes ago, Shway said:

Ahh thanks guys @Ozzie_the_parrot @yellowsweatygorilla.

I just don't understand the purpose of creating something similar to L10, PLSQ but then looking for a different designation, that would essentially be lower than those leagues. It's overall confusing, as you can tell.

It's not going to change the structure in Ontario or Quebec with guys who play L10/PLSQ, and then leave to go to U-Sports or NCAA. So if it's just a shorter season being the difference, why would the CSA sanction it as something different - when theoretically it's not.

I don't think they're intentionally looking for a different designation (though I am sure some might see a marginal benefit in marketing). Like I said, this current D2 composition cannot apply for D3 even if they wanted to. The Alberta Soccer Association won't be able to sanction teams in Saskatchewan, Manitoba, and BC for e.g.

At least that's my interpretation/what I heard.

[yellowsweatygorilla]

1 hour ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

A PDL equivalent revolving primarily around local U-Sports and NCAA scholarship players could and should have been done a long time ago and is different in scope to what is being done at the D3 level with L1O and PLSQ that involves a longer season with more of an open age format.

That said, I believe L1O is changing their format this year (if the pandemic ends), given most of the starters are USports players that leave. It made no sense playing the long season when teams like Alliance who dominated with their USports players, started losing by 5,6 goals a game at the end of the year because of their starters went back to school.

PLSQ on the other hand doesn't seem to have this issue.

[toontownman]

I had heard the players they were going for were lower end payscale CPL players mixed with Usports, maybe an international or two. Basically a mid point between L1 and CPL. The wage system was set up with room to pay more money for players like Cairrero/Gasparotto that would earn more in d2 as a top player than squad player for CPL.

That might have changed with the recent CPL commitment to upping wages, might have even been a power play to push CPL to do that. Also, not sure how a short 3 month season would be enticing for anyone. They can't find and build a career that will let them take 3 months off a year. The wage from this tournament style wont be enough to sustain anyone either.

[yellowsweatygorilla]

4 minutes ago, toontownman said:

I had heard the players they were going for were lower end payscale CPL players mixed with Usports, maybe an international or two. Basically a mid point between L1 and CPL. The wage system was set up with room to pay more money for players like Cairrero/Gasparotto that would earn more in d2 as a top player than squad player for CPL.

That might have changed with the recent CPL commitment to upping wages, might have even been a power play to push CPL to do that. Also, not sure how a short 3 month season would be enticing for anyone. They can't find and build a career that will let them take 3 months off a year. The wage from this tournament style wont be enough to sustain anyone either.

Oh I didn't know that part. This is even more enticing for me if it does indeed give an opportunity to players like Carreiro/Gasparotto to extend their careers. But yea, I am not sure how that fits in with the 3 month season. I'd be surprised if they pay these players more than they're getting in CanPL not prorated.