What should our gold cup lineup be?

[Vince193]

2 minutes ago, shorty said:

Definitely nice to see the tough choices, and I agree it's exciting to think that this is creating a bit more fire and edge in camp for those last few spots.  

CB:  probably the toughest to handicap between DJ, SV, MK, MJ and AS.  Straith gets a bump for versatility.  Haven't seen Kapor play:  is he slower and more technical like DJ and SV or more athletic like MJ? If you have two of each kind, that makes it hard to know who prevails, but if you have three (relatively) slower vs James, then James is likely in and one of the other three drop.

FB:  comes down to health and versatility.  Ledgerwood probably gets a bump like Straith.  Cordova's only real competition is Ledgerwood and Aird, so he's in.  Plus, OZ is high on him.  Probably only one more, because Aird and Edwards can cover FB, so Adekugbe if he's healthy, Pasher or MDJ if not.  I like the Cinderella story of Pasher and root for him that way, but he and Edwards seem too similar to me for OZ to take both of them.  Adekugbe as well for that matter, but if he's healthy he has the highest level of experience of the three, and Edwards is playing and producing, so Pasher's out, sadly.

MF/F:  Agree with the choices on the two lists above, except Thiku, yours doesn't include Bernier, and we know he will be there, and will probably be captain, given OZ's praise in the media.  We also know Ricketts won't due to injury.  Aird and Edwards are FB cover, particularly if 3-5-2 is on the table, and locks are SA, JH, TA, PB, AD, WJ and SP (on the poster with Bernier), although one could argue TA and WJ might not be "locks" based on camp performance.  WJ is hard to replace for attitude and heart and leadership, though, and TA is cover up front.  Last spot is between JO, MP, and KF I would think -- MB with an outside shot.  I'm actually tempted to say KF because he's playing, he's scoring and he's the most versatile of the three.

GK:  Agreed.  MB, JL and ST.

 

It doesn't really matter since he's #3 but Thomas really shouldn't be on this team anymore. He's on the bench in 2nd div Norway.

[Levi Oakey]

31 minutes ago, Vince193 said:

It doesn't really matter since he's #3 but Thomas really shouldn't be on this team anymore. He's on the bench in 2nd div Norway.

Important to remember that just because a player is struggling with playing time doesn't mean they aren't good. It means they are struggling to get playing time. Thomas has had some good games for Canada, just because he needs to find a new team and coach doesn't mean that he should suddenly be considered terrible. (We all hate unattached FC but that is what you get if you constantly want people swapping teams for playing time).

[Guest]

Hate it when people use initials as short forms. Always takes 10 seconds to figure each initial out

[Obinna]

27 minutes ago, Levi Oakey said:

Important to remember that just because a player is struggling with playing time doesn't mean they aren't good. It means they are struggling to get playing time. Thomas has had some good games for Canada, just because he needs to find a new team and coach doesn't mean that he should suddenly be considered terrible. (We all hate unattached FC but that is what you get if you constantly want people swapping teams for playing time).

Not advocating for Thomas in particular, but I do agree with this statement in principal. 

Sometimes we get so caught up in the "players must be regulars" mantra that sometimes we devalue some very good players.

Vitoria is a great example.

Some have suggested he shouldn't be called since he couldn't earn minutes at his club (until very recently). The reality is, he has been called and he has done well when called upon. Vitoria is a good player and has shown it every time he's played for us. 

It was the same story for Jakovic when his playing time dried up in Japan. 

[Obinna]

https://www.mlssoccer.com/gold-cup/2017/rosters

Discuss.

 

[dyslexic nam]

I like how we have 3 forwards listed and Curacao has 16.  Presumably they will be playing an attacking 3-2-5 formation...  They also have Shermaine Martina listed twice, so I assume he is really good. 

 

Curious - who are the big omissions from the US squad?  Mexico looks totally domestic, so definitely leaving a few folks home.

[BrennanFan]

No Andy Najar for Honduras.  Same old squad getting older.

[Pottsy3]

Jamaica's roster doesn't seem to have any of their European based players

[BrennanFan]

Honduras does however have an 18 year old striker who just signed a 5 year contract with AC Milan, Rigoberto Rivas. He will get his first caps at this GC.  

[Addona]

Why is Malouda allowed to play for French Guiana!

I think I know why it is technically allowed, but it's still ridiculous!!!

 

[Ruffian]

I don't see Keylor Navas on the Costa Rica squad. That is good news!

[Obinna]

45 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

I like how we have 3 forwards listed and Curacao has 16.  Presumably they will be playing an attacking 3-2-5 formation...  They also have Shermaine Martina listed twice, so I assume he is really good. 

 

Curious - who are the big omissions from the US squad?  Mexico looks totally domestic, so definitely leaving a few folks home.

Biggest Omission for the US is a tie between John Brooks and Fabian Johnson. Most of their European based players are being rested, including Cameron and the kid at Hamburg who's name escapes me. Born in Hawaii, 24/25 year old striker. Bobby wood that's it. I think only Pulisic and the guy from Genk who's looking to switch from Israel are the only ones based in Europe.

Yes Mexico is totally domestic, save for Erik Torres. They look strong though. Peralta is there, as is Pulido, who spent time at Olympiacos in the past. The winger who was at Villarreal is there I think, Juergen Damm and the Pachuca boy are both included right? Should be a tough team.

Costa Rica is selected all their top players, though I can't remember if I saw Navas. At any rate we'll have to be at our best to take points.

[Obinna]

Jamaica looks weak. They have more USL guys than we do. Way more.

None of the English based players are there. That's the problem with them, isn't it? Unless it is WCQ the commitment is piss poor, but that's what you get when half your pool is English born. 

[matty]

What out there theories do you thiml caused a the total deltas snub?

[shorty]

2 hours ago, canta15 said:

Hate it when people use initials as short forms. Always takes 10 seconds to figure each initial out

Sorry about that.  Was already a long post.  Just didn't want to make it longer.  

[BearcatSA]

I'm not sold on Ledgerwood as a starting RB, isolated on an island against a pacy wing threat.  I think he's better suited as a right mid option where he can provide the RB with defensive support against an attack minded LB (as Floro used him to help Henry and stifle the threat from Layun in Mexico City during the WCQ).

[BearcatSA]

2 hours ago, matty said:

What out there theories do you thiml caused a the total deltas snub?

Doesn't rate them. 

Fair enough.

[matty]

3 minutes ago, BearcatSA said:

Doesn't rate them. 

Fair enough.

I said "out there" not plausible

[Big_M]

Curacao just got even stronger by naming players to the 40 player list who did not get called to their Canada and Nicaragua friendlies. Stronger if they get named to the final list. Benschop who used to be a b2 starter, Martinus who is starting in j1 league, Bonevacia in a-league, Kastaneer who scored 4 goals in Eredivisie and Gorre who played a little in league one on loan from swansea.

Jamaica relying heavily on mls and usl players. Looking weak compared to a lot of teams

[Gian-Luca]

Going to guess as a 23 man roster:

GK: Borjan, Leutwiler, Thomas

D: Awuah, De Jong, Vitoria, Jakovic, James, Straith, Cordova, Aird

M: Edwards, Davies, Bernier, Osorio, Arfield, Hoilett, Piette, Johnson, Akindele

F: Ricketts, Larin, Cavallini

Some easy alternatives depending on availability: Haber or AJH instead of Ricketts (if he doesn't recover in time, although he's projected to) or Cavallini (if he is only being listed in the case of persuading him to come; Teibert instead of Piette; Ledgerwood instead of Aird (I have put Aird in the D section but really he could be listed in the D-mid) but I only see that happening if Zambrano is more defensive-minded than I'm expecting). Lastly Crepeau instead of either Thomas or Leutweiler. Awuah is my surprise/dark horse pick.

[BrennanFan]

8 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

Going to guess as a 23 man roster:

GK: Borjan, Leutwiler, Thomas

D: Awuah, De Jong, Vitoria, Jakovic, James, Straith, Cordova, Aird

M: Edwards, Davies, Bernier, Osorio, Arfield, Hoilett, Piette, Johnson, Akindele

F: Ricketts, Larin, Cavallini

Some easy alternatives depending on availability: Haber or AJH instead of Ricketts (if he doesn't recover in time, although he's projected to) or Cavallini (if he is only being listed in the case of persuading him to come; Teibert instead of Piette; Ledgerwood instead of Aird (I have put Aird in the D section but really he could be listed in the D-mid) but I only see that happening if Zambrano is more defensive-minded than I'm expecting). Lastly Crepeau instead of either Thomas or Leutweiler. Awuah is my surprise/dark horse pick.

You're retiring Ledgerwood?

[Gian-Luca]

1 hour ago, BrennanFan said:

You're retiring Ledgerwood?

My guess is moreso what I think Zambrano would do and what we will see (rather than what I would necessarily do if I'm in charge) - it depends on how offensive minded he is. Cordova there instead of Ledgerwood is more of an offense-generating pick and youth/skill over experience. For this particular tourney I am not sure I would do the same if I am bringing a lot of other younger inexperienced players at this level (Davies, Edwards, Awuah - assuming they all make the cut that is). It's nice that there are actually some difficult decisions that have to be made rather than a 23 man roster that largely chooses itself because of a lack of options (which would have been the case in Holger's time).

Although not using him for this tourney doesn't mean that he'd be permanently retired from the team.

 

[Big_M]

2017 Gold Cup 40 Player Provisional List Assessment

Assuming Wotherspoon is not eligible

GK: Chencinski is a starter at a good level while Crepeau and Thomas are not. He should have been named. Correct on Borjan and Leutwiler

CB: The best cb in north american leagues this season did not get named. Lefevre with 26 minutes played this season should not be on the list. Gasparotto could have been named also

FB: Adekugbe hasn't played a competitive pro game in four months and is recovering from an injury so shouldn't be on the list. Corbin-Ong and Stamopoulos were starters at reasonable levels at LB this season and should have been named

M: Bernier as already stated. Galvis who last played a competitive pro game in November gets named but not an Aleman who started four games in the verano season for the top team in costa rica. Should have been named. Stanese and McKendry could have been named but focus seems to be on midfielders who can bring more offensively so that is fine. Although McKendry has shown that he can score and has great shooting

F: Good selections

 

[BuzzAndSting]

24 minutes ago, Big_M said:

2017 Gold Cup 40 Player Provisional List Assessment

Assuming Wotherspoon is not eligible

GK: Chencinski is a starter at a good level while Crepeau and Thomas are not. He should have been named. Correct on Borjan and Leutwiler

CB: The best cb in north american leagues this season did not get named. Lefevre with 26 minutes played this season should not be on the list. Gasparotto could have been named also

FB: Adekugbe hasn't played a competitive pro game in four months and is recovering from an injury so shouldn't be on the list. Corbin-Ong and Stamopoulos were starters at reasonable levels at LB this season and should have been named

M: Bernier as already stated. Galvis who last played a competitive pro game in November gets named but not an Aleman who started four games in the verano season for the top team in costa rica. Should have been named. Stanese and McKendry could have been named but focus seems to be on midfielders who can bring more offensively so that is fine. Although McKendry has shown that he can score and has great shooting

F: Good selections

 

I would love to hear how much actual game tape you've actually watched of these players!

[Gian-Luca]

On 2017-06-07 at 1:58 AM, harrycoyster said:

Too many mouths to feed in Toronto. You can't realistically expect him to get the minutes he needs with the talent in front of him. And let's be honest, 3 goals in 26 games at striker for TFCII doesn't scream MLS starter to me.

But since Hamilton graduated up to the senior team he has 4 goals in 17 games in MLS, most of which (the games that is) have been late sub appearances - very few starts so far. His goal scoring rate per MLS minutes of play is actually pretty decent. While I'm not questioning the decision to not include him on the 40 man roster because of the abundance of older & more experienced players, surely that's the more relevant stat in terms of his ability to play at the MLS level.