Your 23-Man Roster for Belize series.

[aloyol]

Just to keep things stirred up. Occean has 11 goals this season, four penalties, the most of any other player in Norway. Without the penalties he is not even in the top 15 of Norway league scorers.

 

For one of the top 20 scorers in Norway the earth has moved, objects no longer fall to the ground and major paradigm changes are taking place obliging us to tear down entire football laboratories to build new ones where the earth now moves around its oceans.

 

Go watch Odd BK highlights for this season. A lot of goals OO is involved in some capacity, either assisting, creating a turnover that lead to a goal, or scoring himself. Ask their fans, he is their best players. Best player in a top 4 teams in Norway, should be call IMO.

 

You shouldn't look at a forward only by looking at the goals, the impact a forward has on a game also matters.

[madmonte]

 

I'm afraid I don't follow Ryan. My point was that the 'If you don't like it you should just leave' argument ignores the point of the criticism which I believe was (although I'm paraphrasing someone else so might not have it quite right) that there is a lot of over-criticism that would benefit from a change in tone. It was a criticism that didn't seem to be made with ill intent, and IMHO, a valid one.

Is that so wrong? And would it be so difficult to respond to the criticism with either an acknowledgement or a rebuttal? That would be better than 'if you don't like it get out'.

 

I got what you were saying.  What I was saying is that it happens far too often on the internet.  In other words, noting what you were saying and agreeing with the sentiment.  

 

and then pointing out that if the internet learned about the phrase "ergo decedo" they would get it all wrong, flub it up, and use it in every argument poorly.

 

And in fact, they would use it incorrectly in a HURRY.

 

Why?  Because they would, ironically, use "ergo decedo" to attack someone rather than their argument against the argument.  Does that make sense?  Morons creating oxymorons?  Are you following me?  It gets confusing lol

 

In other words, I was trying to use wordplay in a funny way, but obviously was insuccessful, probably because my grammar is often uncorrect.

[madmonte]

http://www.crtvg.es/deportes/directo/canle/evento1

 

Piette is coming on.

[rob.notenboom]

I got what you were saying. What I was saying is that it happens far too often on the internet. In other words, noting what you were saying and agreeing with the sentiment.

and then pointing out that if the internet learned about the phrase "ergo decedo" they would get it all wrong, flub it up, and use it in every argument poorly.

And in fact, they would use it incorrectly in a HURRY.

Why? Because they would, ironically, use "ergo decedo" to attack someone rather than their argument against the argument. Does that make sense? Morons creating oxymorons? Are you following me? It gets confusing lol

In other words, I was trying to use wordplay in a funny way, but obviously was insuccessful, probably because my grammar is often uncorrect.

Ah. Gotcha. Makes perfect sense now. My slow morning brain couldn't keep up with your quick wit

Just one additional comment and then I'll quit my little diatribe - There are a lot of posters who simply don't bother to participate in the forum anymore, and those who I've asked have often cited similar reasons as I've criticized above, namely the overboard tone in many of the discussions. Not saying there aren't still bright and dedicated Vs on the forum, but many have moved away from it too, and that is to our mutual detriment.

I'll stop hijacking the thread now.

[Unnamed Trialist]

False, as for that to be true you also have to take away the penalties of everyone else in the top 15, which you didn't do in order to make your argument.  Your point stands, though,in that he drops out of the top ten.  I also become annoyed by penalty takers getting full credit for goals that are much easier to obtain, especially as it is too often the case that someone else actually EARNED the opportunity.

 

TFC announcers making a huge hash out of Altidore getting 2 goals last week, or 3 goals in two games is an immediate example.

 

Okay, I'll rectify to show you how silly your emphatic "false" looks. Take away all penalties from all scorers and Occean is not even in the TOP 14 of Norweigan scorers this year, he is tied with a ton of others for 15th. 

 

And that is not updated don't think. I won't check any more though.

 

Nitpick yourself: http://www.fifa.com/world-match-centre/nationalleagues/nationalleague=norway-tippeligaen-2000000034/top-scorers/index.html

[Obinna]

People are falling into two camps. Those that believe our best preforming players should be called at all costs, and those who belive the players left home won't drastically make a difference to the results.

[madmonte]

Well...what about those like myself, who aren't pooping themselves over the fact that Osorio WASN'T called, but are more focusing on the players that we are worried Floro WILL play, like Bekker?

[shermanator]

And those who belive the players left home won't drastically make a difference to the results.

 

I fall into this category at the moment. We're up against Belize, not Mexico. No need to panic.

[Keegan]

I dont get this logic. He isnt one of our top 3 mid so who cares?

So whoever we call up outside our top 3 mids doesnt matter?

Nvm the fact that 2 of our 3 starting mids are over the age of 32 and wont be around forever.

Is bekker being groomed to take over? One injury to our top 3 mids and we're looking pretty thin. Id rather have oso there instead of bekker and even some others.

Ps. Since when is herc gomez journeyman mls?

 

He's a journeyman striker with an embarrassing strike rate over the past few years. In his last 75 MLS games he also only has 7 goals.  I've never been a fan of the guy and IMO he would serve himself better by keeping his mouth shut about our national team.  I don't see him being in Toronto long either way though so maybe he just wants to soak in all the attention while it lasts, seems par for his career.

 

It does look strange (and dangerous) defending so deep, but have we given up many free kick goals in the Floro era? I honestly don't recall. Poor memory for that sort of thing.

 

We gave up one against Czech Republic early in the Floro days but none after that IIRC.  I think Panama hit the post off a FK we defended deep last November. 

[Michael Crampton]

I've said this before, but to change it slightly: if Canada could produce more journeymen MLS players, we might occasionally score a goal at the Gold Cup. A lot of the kids people get so angry about not getting playing time in the league will do very well to have journeyman careers.

[Boominbooty]

Way too much fussing about Osorio/Bekker. It is two games against Belize -- tone it down people. I wish everyone got this irate when Tiebert was frozen out of the picture for almost a year. I really hope the media (such as they are who follow this sport in Canada) don't waste questions about this with Floro. I'd rather know: Assuming we win, what other cities might we play in aside from TO? how long is De Guzman going to be in the picture? Will Floro carry on with a 4-1-4-1 or will he switch it up? Does he rate OCcean? All more important questions than this whine fest (and yes, for the record, I think Osorio should be called ahead of Bekker but it isn't the end of the world that he wasn't).

[king1010]

If i recall, these boards were pretty pissed when teibert was frozen out.

[madmonte]

Way too much fussing about Osorio/Bekker. It is two games against Belize -- tone it down people. I wish everyone got this irate when Tiebert was frozen out of the picture for almost a year. I really hope the media (such as they are who follow this sport in Canada) don't waste questions about this with Floro. I'd rather know: Assuming we win, what other cities might we play in aside from TO? how long is De Guzman going to be in the picture? Will Floro carry on with a 4-1-4-1 or will he switch it up? Does he rate OCcean? All more important questions than this whine fest (and yes, for the record, I think Osorio should be called ahead of Bekker but it isn't the end of the world that he wasn't).

 

I don't think the fussing is that bad, just discussing really.  And at almost exact the same level as what was discussed about Teibert being frozen out, by the way.

 

It's all cumulative.  It's not just about two games.  Tactically I think Floro is on the right path, in terms of personnel decisions and man management, I am very much on the fence with Floro.  If it was just the two games against Belize, that would be one thing, and you wouldn't see as much of a fuss at all.

[Free kick]

By the tone of many posts on this thread you would think Floro chose not to call Messi. Osorio was not going to make or break these next two matches, in fact he wouldn't even have been a shoe-in to see any action at all. It's not hard to read between the lines of many of the posts though... it's just really really boring.

 

But he makes plays.   How many players do we have who can do that?   By my count, we have arguably none.  He has the ability to challenge and even beat defenders with his dribble.  He has nice first touches and can make plays and controll the ball in tight spaces.  He makes mostly good passes.    What do we see and have been seeing for the past 15 years from our NT midfielders?   far too many poor first touches,  low quality passes and lack of strenght on the ball.    The downside, Osorio probably should score more often.  So far he has only one goal this season and given the scoring streak he was on at the start of his MLS careers, i was expecting more. He has been snakebitten on a few chances this year.   he has contributed six assists (i believe).   On the numbers alone, who else in the NT pool of MF's can compare?  

 

too many peoples glasses are colour tinted in anti TFC shades.  Here is one truism about watching and following professional sports like soccer and hockey as a fan and spectator.   if you're rooting against a team, nothing that those players on that team do, will ever impress you.   if you want to argue that the opposite also applies, then just look at the quantitative (ie.: minutes played, goals assists, team wins etc etc).

[Gian-Luca]

I hope Floro knows what he's doing. Frankly I don't care who we are playing, I don't like the idea of taking an experimental squad into a 2-game World Cup qualifying series that has no margin for error. Nevermind the Bekker over Osorio controversy, there are a lot of players on this squad who have never played together before and several players with little senior team experience, now is not the time to see if they might gel. Its like we are treating this as a friendly series.

 

Granted, the starting 11 should be a strong and fairly experienced one, but injuries & suspensions can creep up at any time.

[JDub]

Gian-Luca you beat me to the punch.  I totally agree.  A lot of people are saying "oh, we are only playing Belize".  Should we win? Yes we should but this isn't the time to experiment(unless maybe you are capping someone important for the future) or a time to hold grudges(if that is the case with Floro and Osorio).  We are one step away from the semi and our best team possible should be called.  Not only to ensure victory in this round but to have more games together as a full unit to try and gel  for future rounds.  Everyone knows where we ranked with Fifa (if you put much stock in the rankings).  I don't think we are really in a position to take anyone lightly and most definitely not in a position to field a squad of anything but the best we have to offer.  Anyway, I will be there Friday night cheering on the reds regardless of who is on the pitch.  Cheers  

[Free kick]

i think that Canada could beat Belize if they fielded a team of U of T players.   The point for me, is that a coach has to show that he can identify and recognized the best players.  And the callup becomes a recognition and reward.   Excluding Osorio from the squad makes me seriously question the abilities in those areas of our national team selectors.   And this extends way back to the Gold cup as well,  He left Osorio on the bench.  Yet, you only need to look at the numbers, not only this year but last year and year before, to scratch your head as to why others are being favoured.   

[Bison44]

This uproar is VERY similar to the Tiebert exclusion whining, questions about Will Johnsons long absence and multiple other hissy fits we have had when our own particular fav doesn't get called.  There are always some surprises, some favorites of the manager that dont deserve a call and some vets that everyone agrees should hang up the boots.  Personally i think if we have to leave Osorio home this time, we wont feel it as much because Johnson and Hutchison will both be there.  I think Floro would have made a different call if those 2 CMNT stalwarts weren't showing up.  As for Bekker.......that should be a episode of unsolved mysteries.  I dont hate him as much as most, but why he keeps getting calls after subpar performances and not getting any regular playing time in MLS....its just baffling.  

[Free kick]

I don't rate Osorio, but I think Vanney and TFC may have as much to do with his absence as Floro, despite team-mouthpiece Larson's claims to the contrary.

but thats because you Hate TFC.   Of course if you try and judge a TFC player through whitecap coloured glasses, you will not rate any TFC player. . But we are talking about our national team here.  And, I am not going to jump into the Bekker fray because i think he is being scapegoated here.  So lets look at Teibert or others like Ouimette .  What do you see from Teibert to justify his inclusion and Osorio's exclusion?    find me some meaningfull numbers like Games played, games started, minutes played, goals, assists, shots  etc.  and not just from this year, but over the past two years.  just go over to the mlssoccer.com site. 

 

you cant even compare the the two.  

[tmcmurph]

As a Cap fan I rate Osorio ahead of Bekker & Teibert. Osorio can dribble in a crowd around and in the other team's 18 yard box that I've not seen from the other 2. I was surprised to not see him on the list. All 3 have different skills but I'd take Osorio over the other 2. To me Osorio is an Iniesta and Teibert is more of a Xavi.

[Obinna]

I like Osorio and Teibert and think they're both solid players but I get more excited about Osorio because I think he's more dangerous offensively. An ideal midfield to me would be one that includes: Johnson, Hutchinson, Teibert and Osorio. Akindele and Larin up front and I believe you have an MLS quality starting front 6 - which would be good for a CONCACAF side. Sadly I don't see that happening with Floro in charge.

[Ivanovski94]

I rate Osorio not on TFC performances but how he performed with the CANMNT. He is too disconnected from the other players. Teibert and Tissot have shown better chemistry and Teibert also has shown he isnt afraid to try and control the game, something which osorio hasnt shown. Osorio hasnt shown to be a player who just owns the ball and takes charge. Teibert has and is. An Osorio with the right type of team mates and systemis a different story. Again im comparing CanMNT play not club play. 

[BrennanFan]

Oso is my favourite player on TFC and im very proud of his development into the pro he is today. Osorio's a good MLS level player and on his day makes great plays. BUT. I just don't think he's a good enough playmaker or consistent enough creatively to influence an international level WCQ game.

Also, Floro needs his 3 mids to be extremely defensively aware, and Oso is just not on par defensively with Hutch, Johnson, deGuz, Teibert, Piette or Straith.

So yes, I get why Oso was the odd man out against Belize when we have guys returning to the squad and our core six U23s prepping for Olympic Quals.

Should he be on our 23 man squad in the future? Yes. And I think he will be. But he is not a starter for us. And he doesn't fit into Floro's system.

Perhaps the real concern is Floro's system. I wasn't thrilled with the more direct game we played at the Gold Cup, but I'm ready to give it a shot to its conclusion, whatever that may be.

Recall, we recently had a talented midfield made up of deGuz, Hutch, Radz, Bernier and DeRo. We played the ball on the ground and were creative going forward... And it didn't get us JACK SQUAT.

Floro is trying a different way, and I can respect that. If Oso gets screwed bc of this, I say so be it.

[Coramoor]

Osorio might actually have something to offer as a LW in the formation that Floro is currently offering in the future. Akindele wasn't particularly impressive in the games he played and he seemed to run out of gas easily, might be a spot to try him as he's very been effective for TFC in that position, but at that point he is competing directly against Tissot and that's a tough one as they both bring a lot to the table

[Unnamed Trialist]

Hilarious that TFC fans are crying bias since if it weren't for their extremely rose coloured glasses this thread would never have been hijacked into an Osorio love-in. 

 

As I see it Osorio had a very mediocre game vs. Costa Rica, last time out, and was dissappointing. If you think a poor performance--plus a little childish fit when subbed off-- is what you need to convince a coach then you don't know much about the game. So it could be a small gesture to the player. If he had performed well, if we had scored vs. Costa Rica and he had been part of that victory, then no doubt he would be called in now.

 

Maybe Floro is thinking that you don't call a player like that onto a squad when you think you probably won't play him, as you might think it'll make things worse, him steaming on the bench instead of supporting his teammates. His club asking what's the point. You don't call in players to sit on the bench, it is not fair. A reason why he left Pacheco back as well, I'd say.

 

That is precisely why you bring in some of the younger guys, since they don't expect to play, they help the squad train properly, they learn the system for the Olympic qualifying. And they get psyched and readied for when it is their turn. That can in no way be called "experimental", that is squad management.

 

That said, I think Osorio has to be in the core 18 players, as one of our few attacking mids who can connect with the strikers, and with a bit of flair.

 

I think the player who is going to do that for us vs. Belize is Issey, who is scoring and can work well from the wing into the box, has a dribble and is tricky, but is experienced and knows what is means to defend tactically as well.