Jordan Hamilton

[Keegan]

It's clear he's not rated and it's time to move on.  At 21 he is young.. he would be going into his senior year if he was an NCAA player.. and you can bet that if he was drafted and scored as many goals in as little time as he has he would be getting played.  The problem is he isn't Vanney or Bez "boy".. he was an academy player who was here before both.  It was always a matter of when, not if he got signed ever since he was a u17 player.  Now if Ben Spencer was to come in and score a goal it would be a completely different story and no doubt it wouldn't be the end of him for a while. 

[DigzTFC]

Hamilton is a bit of an in-betweener.  He's too good for USL but not consistent enough to be a starter in MLS. Frankly, he needs more urgency in his game and that's precisely why is his stint in Portugal he was considered lackadaisical.  Sometimes you can only light a fire underneath these prospects by letting them go, starving them a bit, and instilling some internal grit and fight.  I hope he spends some time in Europe rather than the CPL because he doesn't need to be babied any longer.  It won't improve him.

[BrennanFan]

I dont know about that.  I think Hamilton has proven he can score goals in MLS and has never been given the opportunity to prove whether he can do that consistently or not.  

He is still rated highly by TFC and I'm sure they'd try to keep him more than any other young Canadian they have aside from Edwards.  He is making 80K right now, which is pretty good for his age.  

I also think he should leave, but I just dont see it happening.  

When is his contract up?  TFC picked up an option year last December but Im not sure if there are any more option years left on his contract.  Transfermarkt says his contract is up at the end of this year.  

[harrycoyster]

43 minutes ago, BrennanFan said:

When is his contract up?  TFC picked up an option year last December but Im not sure if there are any more option years left on his contract.  Transfermarkt says his contract is up at the end of this year.  

It's probably the MLS standard 3 years with 2 years of team options. In which case he's under contract for another year.

1 hour ago, Keegan said:

The problem is he isn't Vanney or Bez "boy".. 

Not sure how you can say that when he is behind two strikers that are clearly better, and Ricketts who has proven to be one of the best change of pace substitutes in the league. The problem is more that he is on one of the three deepest teams in the league at striker, and isn't necessarily a great fit in the TFC system.

[Obinna]

I don't think Hamilton has to move on. He is in a good environment with a winning club and he is getting minutes here and there as a 21 year old. Anything can happen to Giovinco or Altidore, although I hope it doesn't.

[harrycoyster]

14 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I don't think Hamilton has to move on. He is in a good environment with a winning club and he is getting minutes here and there as a 21 year old. Anything can happen to Giovinco or Altidore, although I hope it doesn't.

He is 26th in MLS minutes on a team with a 28 man roster and one of the two players behind him is the third-string keeper. What's the point of him being on the team next year in Altidore, Gio, and Ricketts are still there? Is he just supposed to wait and hope 2 players go down with injury and TFC isn't able to sign Akinola?

[RS]

5 hours ago, Keegan said:

The problem is he isn't Vanney or Bez "boy"..  

Yes, that's what's keeping Hamilton off the field. Not the fact that TFC leads the league in goals scored and there are two DPs and a supersub (Ricketts) ahead of him in the pecking order.

I've got my reservations about Ben Spencer's abilities too, but this narrative that Vanney will choose his "boys" over the good of the team is ridiculous (and only perpetuated on this board).

Edited August 18, 2017 by RS

[Keegan]

6 minutes ago, RS said:

Yes, that's what's keeping Hamilton off the field. Not the fact that TFC leads the league in goals scored and there are two DPs and a supersub (Ricketts) ahead of him in the pecking order.

I've got my reservations about Ben Spencer's abilities too, but this narrative that Vanney will choose his "boys" over the good of the team is ridiculous (and only perpetuated on this board).

Not over the good of the team, I'm not sure who has said that.  But given a choice he clearly has his preferences... what has Ben Spencer done to earn more minutes than Hamilton? That's the perplexing thing here.  

No one is arguing that when altidore and giovinco are healthy he doesn't have a shot.. but there have been stretches where both have been gone and he's missed out on some minutes to a player who's only merit seems to be that he has a history with the coach. 

[shermanator]

Honestly, I think Hamilton's gotten an okay share of minutes at the MLS level in his career given the players in front of him, and he's done a decent job with those minutes. Nothing to write home about, but not a "Shamit Shome" level of disappointing in my books. 1425 minutes and 7 goals with the first team. 2491 minutes and 11 goals in USL and a bit of time in the Segunda Liga. Compared to the rest of our player pool, that's an abundance of opportunity for a 21 year old academy product. 

As for the future, I don't know if there's an opportunity for Hamilton to show what he has in MLS if he leaves TFC. He's not the "22 year old big strong oaf with no technical skills or finishing" type of centre forward that MLS teams seem to love coming out of college. He's not overly quick. He floats around up top at times. His finishing is by far his biggest asset, but I don't know if that generates enough interest among other club. 

Also, I don't know if the fact that he is a domestic league wide really helps his case much. Maybe that's just me being cynical.

I would say he should move to Whitecaps as they are thin up front, but with Hurtado around, I doubt they would give much opportunity to him (even if he's the anti-Hurtado).

For me, the best spot for Hamilton right now would be FC Edmonton. Their forwards get a fair share of chances, but their finishing is atrocious, and it's costing them points big time. Hamilton's finishing is sublime, and he plays a similar enough game to Ameobi where it could work out well. NASL is likely a level where he could get big time minutes and get lots of goals.

Edited August 18, 2017 by shermanator

[harrycoyster]

29 minutes ago, Keegan said:

Not over the good of the team, I'm not sure who has said that.  But given a choice he clearly has his preferences... what has Ben Spencer done to earn more minutes than Hamilton? That's the perplexing thing here.  

No one is arguing that when altidore and giovinco are healthy he doesn't have a shot.. but there have been stretches where both have been gone and he's missed out on some minutes to a player who's only merit seems to be that he has a history with the coach. 

Ben Spencer has the same number of minutes as Hamilton, and those minutes are almost all because he is a more natural replacement for Altidore positionally than Ricketts or Hamilton are. You can't start Giovinco and Hamilton together in the TFC system. The attack would be lacking the passing ability and physicality to get on the ball in the box.

Edited August 18, 2017 by harrycoyster

[shermanator]

Considering 2 of Hamilton's 3 goals last year were scored while he and Giovinco started up top together, I think you could argue that they can in fact start together.

Also I agree that Spencer is the natural replacement for Altidore, if you subtract the finishing ability, passing, hold up play and general technique. 

[BrennanFan]

Every coach has players they prefer, and every coach wants to justify his signings by playing them, and giving them more chances, more opportunities to find their feet as compared to players they didnt bring in who may be better or more ready to contribute now. In Vanney's case this has applied to Zavaleta, Delgado and now Spencer.  If people want to say that Vanney has his boys who he plays to the detriment of the team, I think that is arguable criticism.  

Hamilton, Edwards, Osorio and probably even Chapman are good enough to be regular MLS starters.  The problem is that for financial reasons MLS and MLSE want the Toronto market to be a super club, they want Toronto to be relevant to the US television market, so they stack the team with American "stars" and fudge the salary cap numbers and roster rules to help them out.  And now, finally, the team is winning.  The league gets what they want.  The owners get what they want.  They fans who just want to see a winner and have no clue Canada has a national team get what they want.  But Canadian players and Canadian soccer development gets screwed.  

Hamilton and Edwards must play day in and day out now in order for them to develop into players that can contribute at the international level by next WCQ.  They can either take the safe road and stay at TFC, close to home and be financially comfortable and eek out a career knowing they wont reach their true potential, or they can gamble on themselves and leave for Europe when their contracts are up like the ex-Whitecap contingent has done.    

[harrycoyster]

34 minutes ago, BrennanFan said:

1) Every coach has players they prefer, and every coach wants to justify his signings by playing them, and giving them more chances, more opportunities to find their feet as compared to players they didnt bring in who may be better or more ready to contribute now. In Vanney's case this has applied to Zavaleta, Delgado and now Spencer.  If people want to say that Vanney has his boys who he plays to the detriment of the team, I think that is arguable criticism.  

2) Hamilton, Edwards, Osorio and probably even Chapman are good enough to be regular MLS starters.

1) If Spencer is in Vanney's club, he may want to leave said club because Hamilton has the same number of minutes as him in MLS this season and is a year younger. I'm also not sure why Delgado, who is clearly the best #8 on the team, has the stigma of getting played because he's "in the club".

2) Would any of those players start on an average MLS team?...say Montreal or the Whitecaps for example. Edwards is probably a starter on the Whitecaps, that's it. I doubt Chapman or Osorio is starting over Donadel, Tabla, Piatti or Dzemaili. Do you start Hamilton over AJH and Mancosu?

Edited August 18, 2017 by harrycoyster

[DannyFromToronto23]

Isn't zavelta related to vanney? I heard he is 

[Obinna]

3 hours ago, harrycoyster said:

He is 26th in MLS minutes on a team with a 28 man roster and one of the two players behind him is the third-string keeper. What's the point of him being on the team next year in Altidore, Gio, and Ricketts are still there? Is he just supposed to wait and hope 2 players go down with injury and TFC isn't able to sign Akinola?

I don't think there is a big rush for him to jump ship. If this was Cyle Larin stuck behind Giovinco and Altidore I would be singing a different tune.

Hamilton doesn't look like a future star, he looks like a capable striker who is arguably of starting quality.

I know the counter argument will be that we don't know what he can be if he's not given a run in the team, but my rebuttle to that would be that you need to earn your spot, even if Altidore and Giovinco are the competition. 

I like Hamilton. He is a great substitute option for TFC. Young, local, capable of putting away chances. Again, he's only 21 guys, let him continue to battle for minutes. I would prefer that to Hamilton going to DC or somewhere where he'll likely double his minutes in an inferior team. To me, that is both the easy road and the risky road. 

Edited August 18, 2017 by Obinna

[BearcatSA]

Hamilton improved significantly in all aspects of his game last year.  I had hoped that he would have risen above Ricketts in the pecking order up top this year but that hasn't happened.  I'm not a Ricketts fan but his athleticism is suited for MLS and so in the right situations he can be effective, especially as a situational sub.

Edited August 18, 2017 by BearcatSA

[DannyFromToronto23]

Has Ricketts scored this year 

[BearcatSA]

53 minutes ago, DannyFromToronto23 said:

Has Ricketts scored this year 

Yes, I think 3 times in MLS. 

Edited August 18, 2017 by BearcatSA

[deschamp86]

9 hours ago, DannyFromToronto23 said:

Isn't zavelta related to vanney? I heard he is 

He's his nephew

[DannyFromToronto23]

8 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

Yes, I think 3 times in MLS. 

It's been so long I forgot he scored vs Columbus 

[Bison44]

TFC is getting the best of both worlds here.  They have 2 of the best forwards in MLS right now in ALitdore and Gio, off the bench they have 2 CDN that can bring different skill sets, in as subs and both can score at MLS level.  Plus they are keeping MLS happy with giving USMNT guys a home and they keep soccer crazy CDN happy by giving minutes to a veteran CMNT (Rickets) and an up and comer (Hamilton).  They even keep Vanney happy by letting him give his "project player" (Spencer) a chance.  With Altidore always going to national team and gio picking up small knocks it should be enough minutes to go around to keep everyone happy for now. But I would imagine that if Hamilton doesnt at least get the 900min he got last year after producing this year (2 goals in 120min), he'll be looking to go elsewhere.  And I dont blame him.

[shermanator]

New article from Sportsnet on Hamilton, talking about his lack of playing time. Vaneny mentions that his game is very similar to Ricketts, which I would agree with, although I've found Ricketts to be more of a straight line player compared to Hamilton. No mention of Spencer anywhere in the article, in case anyone is wondering.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/tfc-toronto-fc-mls-major-league-soccer-jordan-hamilton-greg-vanney-new-york-red-bulls/

Even when Giovinco and Altidore have been ruled out due to injury, like they were for Toronto’s last three matches, Vanney didn’t turn to Hamilton. Fellow Canadian Tosaint Ricketts started all three games, scoring four goals over that run, and was partnered with other players. Hamilton did come on for the final 22 minutes of the Reds’ 2-1 road loss to the New England Revolution, his first taste of action since July 19.

Why didn’t Hamilton get more of a chance? The more-experienced Ricketts is higher up the depth chart than Hamilton, and Vanney also believes that the two Canadian forwards are too similar in playing style, and that they wouldn’t necessarily have complemented each other.

“Can they play together? Potentially. I think they are very similar in that their preference is to be making runs behind the back line, not necessarily to [drop back] in midfield to link the game to then get to that final action. Jordan does it periodically, but I wouldn’t say it’s ultimately his greatest strength,” Vanney explained.

[Bison44]

Ugghh, Shermanator, my day is ruined!  Of course vanney talks about Ricketts..because Ricketts is quality player that produces at the MLS level and deserves minutes.  He should get more minutes than Hamilton, that isnt an issue.  But Spencer isnt mentioned because there is no way Vanney can defend playing Spencer in front of Hamilton.  Listen closely tonight to the east of you sherm...if Spencer is in the 18 over Hamilton you'll hear my brain explode in MB.  At least be fair and play the one that actually scores for TFC2 and TFC.    

[badname22]

Scored a great goal for TFC II 

 

[Guest]

He was just transferred to Columbus for Mullins