Will Johnson

[youllneverwalkalone]

1 hour ago, DeRo_Is_King said:

Guys, I'm sure youllneverwalkalone was just joking. 

I wasn't. I was responding the the suggestion that the wife was making it up. Hey, I don't know either of these two. I just get the sense that Will is a bit of dick. If this happened to Hutch I would kill the fool who suggested he was to blame. Stupid bias of a fan, but that's how it goes. WJ refuses call-ups, mocks supporters, gets traded frequently and, as you suggested later, is probably overrated. I'm not going to rush to his defense.

[Obinna]

47 minutes ago, TRM said:

What about the ideals of "innocent until proven guilty" ?

That ideal is rapidly disappearing from our society, sadly.

[matty]

26 minutes ago, Obinna said:

That ideal is rapidly disappearing from our society, sadly.

Partly cause everyone starts playing detective.....also the internet

[TRM]

25 minutes ago, Obinna said:

That ideal is rapidly disappearing from our society, sadly.

Sad but true. I kind of wonder if these "suspensions at first charge" rules apply to the non-players in MLS? If not from my vantage point that is caring more about the league's image than any crime.

These situations get ugly fast especially when custody is at stake. Ask any divorce lawyer. The things people will do to try and get an advantage are unbelievable and it goes both ways. The only thing to do is wait for any proof before making judgement.

[Obinna]

Just now, TRM said:

Sad but true. I kind of wonder if these "suspensions at first charge" rules apply to the non-players in MLS? If not from my vantage point that is caring more about the league's image than any crime.

These situations get ugly fast especially when custody is at stake. Ask any divorce lawyer. The things people will do to try and get an advantage are unbelievable and it goes both ways. The only thing to do is wait for any proof before making judgement.

I would hope everyone had enough common sense to understand that any moral stance taken by a corporate entitey like MLS is predicated on their public image.

[Obinna]

23 minutes ago, matty said:

Partly cause everyone starts playing detective.....also the internet

Don't think that's the cause.

Playing detective is fine, but prescribing a punishment without definive proof or even substantiated, pertinent facts is dangerous and is caused by said individuals disregard for the "innocent until proven guilty" principal.

Edited September 7, 2017 by Obinna

[Keegan]

I wonder if Orlando will release a statement protesting the suspension and citing Will's previous civil disciplinary record as evidence....

https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2017/08/14/orlando-city-issue-club-statement-regarding-red-card-shown-kaka-vs-ny

sorry just had to lighten this talk up with the LOL moment of the season for me so far.

"it was a clear red card, but they're friends and kaka is a good guy"

 

[matty]

31 minutes ago, TRM said:

Sad but true. I kind of wonder if these "suspensions at first charge" rules apply to the non-players in MLS? If not from my vantage point that is caring more about the league's image than any crime.

These situations get ugly fast especially when custody is at stake. Ask any divorce lawyer. The things people will do to try and get an advantage are unbelievable and it goes both ways. The only thing to do is wait for any proof before making judgement.

I believe the suspensions are only handed out because of the union, so am sure there is different handling for non players. I think he has to do counselling on top of the suspension.

At the current time all that can be said is you can't knock someone over, even if by accident, unless they're a threat to you in someway (and so far we have no indication of that). While he might not have commited a crime, he (given all current evidence) needs some serious self reflection even if charges are dropped because you can't get physical with someone. Unless this is proven to be a complete lie on her part or she was actively trying to steal his property, he's the one in the wrong morally whether he tackled her or knocked her over by accident.

10 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Don't think that's the cause.

Playing detective is fine, but prescribing a punishment without definive proof or even pertinent facts is dangerous and is caused by said individuals disregard for the "innocent until proven guilty" principal.

Playing detective causes a lot of shit on both sides when it's a high profile case. It makes people pissed and they stick to their ideas.

Edited September 7, 2017 by matty

[jonovision]

1 hour ago, Obinna said:

That ideal is rapidly disappearing from our society, sadly.

Innocent until proven guilty is a legal standard, not a moral one. There is nothing wrong with drawing conclusions from the evidence available.

[Obinna]

15 minutes ago, jonovision said:

Innocent until proven guilty is a legal standard, not a moral one. There is nothing wrong with drawing conclusions from the evidence available.

It didn't become a legal standard in a vacuum. It's a legal standard built upon a moral one, at least by my estimation.

I think it's morally reprehensible to punish someone as if they were guilty without the actual proof of guilt. And by extension I would say those advocating for punishment in those circumstances are not much better.

Edited September 7, 2017 by Obinna

[matty]

8 minutes ago, Obinna said:

It didn't become a legal standard in a vacuum. It's a legal standard built upon a moral one, at least by my estimation.

It is a guideline for the state not the general population.

Edited September 7, 2017 by matty

[Obinna]

 

1 hour ago, matty said:

 

Playing detective causes a lot of shit on both sides when it's a high profile case. It makes people pissed and they stick to their ideas.

I still don't see how the internet and playing detective is partly responsible for the disregard of 'innocent until proven guilty', which was your original assertion. 

2 hours ago, Obinna said:

That ideal is rapidly disappearing from our society, sadly.

 

2 hours ago, matty said:

Partly cause everyone starts playing detective.....also the internet

 

[matty]

15 minutes ago, Obinna said:

 

I still don't see how the internet and playing detective is partly responsible for the disregard of 'innocent until proven guilty', which was your original assertion. 

 

 

Detective because now a lot of people see themselves as experts and take they're view as auto correct. When challenged we double down. 

Internet because the internet is alwasy related (that one was more joke)

[Obinna]

10 minutes ago, matty said:

Detective because now a lot of people see themselves as experts and take they're view as auto correct. When challenged we double down. 

I don't think we are on the same page here my friend.

What I mean is that when it comes to an issue, there are those who prematurely want repercussions and those who first wait for the court ruling. We all agree that WJ shouldn't have laid his hands on his wife in any form, but we are divided in the manner which I just described. Why is that? Because we all think we are experts or detectives or because of the internet? I don't think so.

I think some people have lost sight of the value in assuming someone is innocent before casting them as guilty.

[matty]

2 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I don't think we are on the same page here my friend.

What I mean is that when it comes to an issue, there are those who prematurely want repercussions and those who first wait for the court ruling. We all agree that WJ shouldn't have laid his hands on his wife in any form, but we are divided in the manner which I just described. Why is that? Because we all think we are experts or detectives or because of the internet? I don't think so.

I think some people have lost sight of the value in assuming someone is innocent before casting them as guilty.

Firstly i said the internet thing was a joke. I just want that to be clear.

I think we (maybe not you but people generally) read about a case and after going over everything cast guilty or not guilty verdict on someone (the later will happen with a touch of conspiracy often and the former will be a bare bones no room for anything other than the basics) after we've accessed everything to our knowledge.

I don't think anyone here (maybe one guy) has called for prison but simply said they don't want him repping Canada after this incident, which is very fair.

[dyslexic nam]

Everything about this is fucked.  The event, the implications, this thread - the whole thing.

[DeRo_Is_King]

8 hours ago, youllneverwalkalone said:

10 hours ago, DeRo_Is_King said:

Guys, I'm sure youllneverwalkalone was just joking. 

I wasn't. I was responding the the suggestion that the wife was making it up. Hey, I don't know either of these two. I just get the sense that Will is a bit of dick. If this happened to Hutch I would kill the fool who suggested he was to blame. Stupid bias of a fan, but that's how it goes. WJ refuses call-ups, mocks supporters, gets traded frequently and, as you suggested later, is probably overrated. I'm not going to rush to his defense.

Well, I still chuckled at the Deliverance reference. 

[Bison44]

I'm surprised there is so much talk about this.  Dont we all know people involved in breakups (or have been there ourselves) and all the bat shit crazy that goes down.  I for one hate to comment or judge unless I actually saw it happen and even then there is probably more to the story that you dont know.  It sounds shitty for everyone involved and its a shame these kinds of things happen.  

[Grizzly]

3 hours ago, Bison44 said:

I'm surprised there is so much talk about this.  Dont we all know people involved in breakups (or have been there ourselves) and all the bat shit crazy that goes down.  I for one hate to comment or judge unless I actually saw it happen and even then there is probably more to the story that you dont know.  It sounds shitty for everyone involved and its a shame these kinds of things happen.  

Yes a few years ago he was writing stuff like this on his instagram: Happy birthday to my better half! You're the most amazing wife and mother I could ever imagine. I love you forever. #happyfamily 

[SuperCanuck]

15 hours ago, shermanator said:

To be fair, I didn't want Johnson on the national team before this happened, given his complete non-commitment to the national team for the Gold Cup, and his prior issues with Floro which saw him not called for the most important game in the last 4 years. I was likely in the minority on that view, but not the only one. This incident just adds more reason for the national team to avoid Johnson in the future.

I didn't want him on the team after hearing him say in an interview how proud he was to have (duel) American citizenship.  When he played for Portland, the Flimbers were awarded a very dodgy penalty at BC Place.  Johnson took it, scored, and went right to the south end and taunted the Whitecaps' supporters.  It's one thing to do that if you've scored a pretty goal, but it wasn't pretty, nor was the penalty even justified.  I've disliked this clown for a long time, and that's very hard for me to do with someone wearing a maple leaf.

[Unnamed Trialist]

The guy is a douche. A lot of human beings from all walks of like are.

If he was recording a conversation she did not want to be recorded, he was wrong, apart from that constituting inadmissable evidence in case of a trial or arbitration, just he-said, she-said stuff that would be ignored.

If he felt he was being harmed by what was being said, then he should have had a witness to the conversation as his wife did. Or simply left, I've been married long enough to know what vitriolic matrimonial arguments and how useless they can become. But he's young, it is not easy, and it always takes two.

If he is not man enough to handle his problems without tackling his wife to get his phone back, like a spoilt child, he's a douche. 

Does not mean I don't think he can't have a soccer career, for any club, and for Canada. I like him as a player and wish he'd show up for us more. He comes across as being not very upfront, now talking about the CMNT, and not straightforward, and maybe  bit dishonest. He does not play straight for us, perhaps, of all the current pool, he is the most unreliable. My view is that he doesn't show up for Canada because he has douche-like things happening in his brain.

Just to be clear: I regularly chant the names of douche-bags when in football stadiums, and admire their plays, and like to see my clubs sign and play them, one does not rule out the other.

[Grizzly]

58 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I've been married long enough to know what vitriolic matrimonial arguments and how useless they can become.

You get in vitriolic matrimonial arguments with your wife? Who would have thunk it?

[TRM]

5 hours ago, Grizzly said:

You get in vitriolic matrimonial arguments with your wife? Who would have thunk it?

I never have those with my wife because she is always right!  

That and she isn't the type to take 50% when offing me would collect 100% 

 

[Obinna]

39 minutes ago, TRM said:

because she is always right!  

 

The key to any successful marriage

[BrennanFan]

if we assume the police report is accurate, this is the kind of situation that would earn a slap on the wrist from an ontario court. johnson would be on his way with no guilty plea and no criminal record in 2 or 3 court appearances.  i imagine the same will occur in florida.  we will never know what exactly happened that day at WJ's house and it is really none of our business.  

perhaps the marital issues explain his absence from the national team picture recently.