Will Johnson

[SpecialK]

I don't understand, people here are saying this Tournament is huge and  demanding him to be there. I believe it is a huge  tournament for Canada, If we win, I believe the duel nationals will start coming, we will  probably get invited to Copa América in 2019, a  chance to play in the playoffs round for the confederation cup, Our Ranking will jump a ton of spots. But if this tournament is so key why isn't Hutch not here and getting a pass by fans? Hutch is our most  accomplished soccer player we have. Will says he's banged up in mid season and Hutch is preparing for next season. Yes Hutch is 34 years old and has played ALOT of football. At least Will  has played to Friendly's and Hutch has been a no show since  The El Salvador game. Hutch can rest his legs and care about his  pro career but Will Johnson can't ? 

 Well Johnson has represented Canada well and if he says he's banged up and doesn't want to play in the gold cup so he can rest is legs he deserves it.  I think we as fans should show the man some  respect (  yes I'm upset he's not there but  understand )

Edited June 29, 2017 by SpecialK

[Obinna]

9 minutes ago, SpecialK said:

I don't understand, people here are saying this Tournament is huge and  demanding him to be there. I believe it is a huge  tournament for Canada, If we win, I believe the duel nationals will start coming, we will  probably get invited to Copa América in 2019, a  chance to play in the playoffs round for the confederation cup, Our Ranking will jump a ton of spots. But if this tournament is so key why isn't Hutch not here and getting a pass by fans? Hutch is our most  accomplished soccer player we have. Will says he's banged up in mid season and Hutch is preparing for next season. Yes Hutch is 34 years old and has played ALOT of football. At least Will  has played to Friendly's and Hutch has been a no show since  The El Salvador game. Hutch can rest his legs and care about his  pro career but Will Johnson can't ? 

 Well Johnson has represented Canada well and if he says he's banged up and doesn't want to play in the gold cup so he can rest is legs he deserves it.  I think we as fans should show the man some  respect (  yes I'm upset he's not there but  understand )

Exactly and furthermore, we need to develop the depth in the long term anyways.

If we can't afford a player like Will Johnson to skip the Gold Cup group stage, we are in big trouble, and we won't get out of said trouble without building more depth. Luckily I believe Zambrano understands this.

[Markus]

Will has never given anything less than his best for us. He's nearing the end of his career, and like it or not, Orlando is who pays him. He has his own future to consider as well. If this was WCQ, I've no doubt that he'd be there. 

I like the way OZ has approached our player situations and explained his decisions. We're deeper at MF than anywhere else IMO so it's a chance for one or more of our younger guys to get some meaningful minutes and step up. I think OZ knows exactly what Will brings and it's clear that he wants to use these games to evaluate players as much as possible. This way he will have a better chance to evaluate some of the younger guys.

If we fail to make it out of the group stage, it won't be because Will chose to sit out anyway. 

[Obinna]

From the CTV article:

The coach also said Orlando midfielder Will Johnson was initially on the 23-man roster.

"But we had a very frank, honest conversation. He feels that he needs to rest his knee a little bit. He has had some discomfort. Nothing major but he felt he needed to get some therapy."

................................................

 

So, it sounds to me like he was initially selected, then assessed his current health and then backed out (after discussing it with Zambrano first).

That is a lot different than him not giving a shit about Canada.

If he really didn't plan on playing in the group stage from the beginning, don't you think he would have informed Zambrano BEFORE he was selected? 

[jonovision]

8 hours ago, harrycoyster said:

I'm not sure how OZ can look at how Johnson and Bernier have played in MLS this season and say Bernier is the better player, it really hasn't been close. I know that WhoScored ratings aren't a great measurement of player performance, but that gap between Johnson (63rd best player in MLS this season; second best player on Orlando) and Bernier (184th; tenth best player on Montreal) is a bit telling, even if you haven't watched them play. OZs comments were probably lip service. None of this matters though, as Johnson would also be the best RB on the team.

I don't get the whole injury argument as Johnson is going to be playing for Orlando at the weekend. And yeah, I'm not gonna get mad at a teenager for taking his time to decide one of the biggest decisions of his life. 

Maybe, maybe not. But a heads up comparison isn't really all that useful. What matters is their ability in the role that Zambrano wants them to play. If the job is a deep-lying playmaker/distributor and not just a classic bulldog DM, then Bernier is the man for the job. Doesn't have nearly the motor Johnson does, but Johnson's range of passing isn't anywhere near Bernier's level.

I'm not a fan of Bernier being on the team either but "Johnson is one of our best players and an automatic starter" is not a position I can get behind, especially when the player doesn't seem all that committed to the team.

[jonovision]

1 hour ago, Obinna said:

From the CTV article:

The coach also said Orlando midfielder Will Johnson was initially on the 23-man roster.

"But we had a very frank, honest conversation. He feels that he needs to rest his knee a little bit. He has had some discomfort. Nothing major but he felt he needed to get some therapy."

................................................

 

So, it sounds to me like he was initially selected, then assessed his current health and then backed out (after discussing it with Zambrano first).

That is a lot different than him not giving a shit about Canada.

If he really didn't plan on playing in the group stage from the beginning, don't you think he would have informed Zambrano BEFORE he was selected? 

The first sentence doesn't really jive with the other three, IMO. You don't need to get "very frank" when talking about niggling injuries. OZ and Johnson would never tell us, but this sounds to me about a discussion of WJ's role in the team and the latter saying "forget it then".

[Markus]

16 minutes ago, jonovision said:

The first sentence doesn't really jive with the other three, IMO. You don't need to get "very frank" when talking about niggling injuries. OZ and Johnson would never tell us, but this sounds to me about a discussion of WJ's role in the team and the latter saying "forget it then".

Good point. This is just conjecture but my guess is that OZ was frank about evaluating players and how much playing time Will might see (or not see esp if he's not 100%) and that might have figured in his decision to stay with his club for the time being. 

[Obinna]

39 minutes ago, jonovision said:

The first sentence doesn't really jive with the other three, IMO. You don't need to get "very frank" when talking about niggling injuries. OZ and Johnson would never tell us, but this sounds to me about a discussion of WJ's role in the team and the latter saying "forget it then".

It is perfectly reasonable to have an "honest and frank" conversation about a niggling injury. 

I think Johnson just gave "honest and frank" assessment on his knee and it was decided the best course of action was to not go on international duty. 

You may be looking into it more then is necessary. 

 

Edited June 29, 2017 by Obinna

[BenFisk'sBiggestFan]

9 hours ago, harrycoyster said:

Will Johnson is as good as any player on that Gold Cup roster. He is an everyday starter at the MLS level and is a proven performer for the national team. How many players on our 23 man roster can you say those two things about? Arfield...Hoilett...Bernier if you are feeling generous. That's it.

It just so happens that 2 of the players you mentioned play Johnson's position. That would be the reason that i am not super upset. I mean, Canada will miss him, but i don't think Johnson will have started anyways. Not with how highly Zambrano talks about Bernier. It will be Arfield, Bernier, and Piette in the midfield. Johnson would be a sub for Bernier later on in the game.

[JDub]

2 hours ago, SpecialK said:

I don't understand, people here are saying this Tournament is huge and  demanding him to be there. I believe it is a huge  tournament for Canada, If we win, I believe the duel nationals will start coming, we will  probably get invited to Copa América in 2019, a  chance to play in the playoffs round for the confederation cup, Our Ranking will jump a ton of spots. But if this tournament is so key why isn't Hutch not here and getting a pass by fans? Hutch is our most  accomplished soccer player we have. Will says he's banged up in mid season and Hutch is preparing for next season. Yes Hutch is 34 years old and has played ALOT of football. At least Will  has played to Friendly's and Hutch has been a no show since  The El Salvador game. Hutch can rest his legs and care about his  pro career but Will Johnson can't ? 

 Well Johnson has represented Canada well and if he says he's banged up and doesn't want to play in the gold cup so he can rest is legs he deserves it.  I think we as fans should show the man some  respect (  yes I'm upset he's not there but  understand )

Are you seriously cutting up Hutch for not accepting calls to friendlies?  .   I can understand your stance on Johnson but using Hutch as the comparison is poor. 

[dyslexic nam]

In fairness, the point is mostly made in respect to the GC - which are not friendlies.  They are our regional championship and the only other meaningful competition we take part in except for WCQ.  Thus sitting them out raises a few eyebrows - especially when it is arguably your best player - or at minimum someone who is key to the team.

Not saying Hutch hasn't earned the right to sit out - I think he has.  But he will be missed, and his absence will impact the quality of the starting 11 we can put on the field in a truly important competition for us.

[jonovision]

Why are we talking about Hutch? Hasn't he more or less retired from international football?

[theaub]

The writing is very clearly on the wall that Hutch is done with international football.  Not sure how he even gets involved in the conversation here.

If Will Johnson doesn't want to travel to play for the shirt, that's fine.  I wouldn't bother calling him up again anytime soon.

[SpecialK]

Why is there a double standard for different players? Also why isn't it a big deal that Hutch might be done ? They are tons of players his age with the same  Pedegree playing for their national teams and yes playing Friendlies. I believe Hutch has earned the right to say no and I believe Will Johnson has earned that right too and shouldn't bashed for it. 

[JDub]

53 minutes ago, jonovision said:

Why are we talking about Hutch? Hasn't he more or less retired from international football?

Pretty much I believe which is why I stated using him as comparison is poor.   It is possible we have already seen his last game in the red and white.  Hopefully not but we may have.

 

[Obinna]

54 minutes ago, theaub said:

The writing is very clearly on the wall that Hutch is done with international football.  Not sure how he even gets involved in the conversation here.

If Will Johnson doesn't want to travel to play for the shirt, that's fine.  I wouldn't bother calling him up again anytime soon.

Pretty extreme stance considering he is sitting out the group stage due to injury precaution.

[jonovision]

Just now, Obinna said:

Pretty extreme stance considering he is sitting out the group stage due to injury precaution.

I recall remarks after our last WCQ matches strongly hinting that he might be done, but I can't find them.

[harrycoyster]

1 hour ago, BenFisk'sBiggestFan said:

It just so happens that 2 of the players you mentioned play Johnson's position. That would be the reason that i am not super upset. I mean, Canada will miss him, but i don't think Johnson will have started anyways. Not with how highly Zambrano talks about Bernier. It will be Arfield, Bernier, and Piette in the midfield. Johnson would be a sub for Bernier later on in the game.

Again, Johnson is also the best RB in the pool. Johnson 100% starts in this team. OZ is just talking up Bernier to make Johnson's absence seems like important. Bernier might be better for the team off the field, but on the field Johnson is clearly the better player. 

[theaub]

1 hour ago, Obinna said:

Pretty extreme stance considering he is sitting out the group stage due to injury precaution.

I'm sure he'll be fine to play tomorrow night and then against TFC on the 5th.

The guy's had two broken legs over the past 36 months - I highly doubt he will ever be 100% healthy again if he's playing consistently..  If he values international breaks as a rest period for club football, then that's fine - but it makes far more sense for this program to make it an easy decision for him and not bother calling him up.

[JDub]

3 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

In fairness, the point is mostly made in respect to the GC - which are not friendlies.  They are our regional championship and the only other meaningful competition we take part in except for WCQ.  Thus sitting them out raises a few eyebrows - especially when it is arguably your best player - or at minimum someone who is key to the team.

Not saying Hutch hasn't earned the right to sit out - I think he has.  But he will be missed, and his absence will impact the quality of the starting 11 we can put on the field in a truly important competition for us.

Saying he is "sitting them out" is assuming he hasn't already decided to retire from international play.   We may need to start thinking we have already seen his last game in the red and white.

 

[jpg75]

When we start the next WCQ cycle in 2019-20, Hutch will be 36 turning 37. I'd be pleasantly surprised if he ever plays for us again.

[Scorpion26]

19 hours ago, harrycoyster said:

Will Johnson is as good as any player on that Gold Cup roster. He is an everyday starter at the MLS level and is a proven performer for the national team. How many players on our 23 man roster can you say those two things about? Arfield...Hoilett...Bernier if you are feeling generous. That's it.

In the end he is not a game changer for the team... I don't think Canada has that player yet and if anyone will it could be or it should be Hoillet, Larin, Davies, perhaps Tabla, and few others. Johnson does the dirty work and does it well. Yea would be great to have him, but isn't like Canada will be missing that much. Team is rebuilding again and Johnson will be at more games in  the future. Winning Gold Cup would be great, but my thought are actually making it deep into the tournament after many fails.

[harrycoyster]

30 minutes ago, Scorpion26 said:

In the end he is not a game changer for the team... I don't think Canada has that player yet and if anyone will it could be or it should be Hoillet, Larin, Davies, perhaps Tabla, and few others. Johnson does the dirty work and does it well. Yea would be great to have him, but isn't like Canada will be missing that much. Team is rebuilding again and Johnson will be at more games in  the future. Winning Gold Cup would be great, but my thought are actually making it deep into the tournament after many fails.

Your definition of game changer seems to be "person who scores goals". I think a CM who has shown that he can provide assists and shield the backline at a high-level in MLS is a game changer for our national team program at this stage.

[Scorpion26]

4 minutes ago, harrycoyster said:

Your definition of game changer seems to be "person who scores goals". I think a CM who has shown that he can provide assists and shield the backline at a high-level in MLS is a game changer for our national team program at this stage.

No doesn't have to be a goal scorer type. I mean someone that can do something that moment of magic where you know for sure they will make that move needed to pull off that last gasp chance for a goal or actually get the goal to win or tie a game depending on situation. I don't view Johnson as that type of player, but more of a hustler type player where he will give his all. I think he is good and should be a starter, but at the same time he is a player that won't be missed that much I believe. Arfield & Piette can fill the void I believe ahead I think should be Hoilett at CAM. I for one would want him to be playing of course at the Gold Cup. 

[A_Gagne]

21 minutes ago, Scorpion26 said:

No doesn't have to be a goal scorer type. I mean someone that can do something that moment of magic where you know for sure they will make that move needed to pull off that last gasp chance for a goal or actually get the goal to win or tie a game depending on situation. I don't view Johnson as that type of player, but more of a hustler type player where he will give his all. I think he is good and should be a starter, but at the same time he is a player that won't be missed that much I believe. Arfield & Piette can fill the void I believe ahead I think should be Hoilett at CAM. I for one would want him to be playing of course at the Gold Cup. 

Nuff said