Will Johnson

[WheatsheafSK]

Personally I would love to see him in the squad because of the drive and intensity he brings.  That said, he is also a divisive figure who lacks diplomacy.  One Joey Barton type in the locker room can be a benefit. Two of them simply sows the seeds of disunity.  We already have Cavalinni - perhaps it is best for the team that Johnson sits out the group stage.  

Edited June 28, 2017 by WheatsheafSK

[Rheo]

The amount of insiders who knows the ins and outs of the Canadian locker room and who can also psycho analyzes the team on this board amazes me

[Bison44]

 

17 minutes ago, Rheo said:

The amount of insiders who knows the ins and outs of the Canadian locker room and who can also psycho analyzes the team on this board amazes me

You have made this point about psycho analysis before.  You should know by know that most of us here are Psychologists or in the mental health field.  I personally counsel many longtime Blue Bomber fans discouraged at their lack of success.  

[Rheo]

1 minute ago, Bison44 said:

 

You have made this point about psycho analysis before.  You should know by know that most of us here are Psychologists or in the mental health field.  I personally counsel many longtime Blue Bomber fans discouraged at their lack of success.  

Just find it funny how there can pages upon pages of posts on the effect certain players will have on the locker with near certainty from the posters.  As I said on Twitter there seems to be a lot of this around here

[Ruffian]

2 minutes ago, Rheo said:

Just find it funny how there can pages upon pages of posts on the effect certain players will have on the locker with near certainty from the posters.  As I said on Twitter there seems to be a lot of this around here

Without speculation and analysis well beyond our qualifications this forum would be very, very boring. Or we could just fill it up with criticising each others comments.

[shermanator]

The excuse Johnson is giving isn't sitting too well with me.

Is he going to play the next 2 games for Orlando and then rest his knee during the Gold Cup break? Or is he going to sit out the next few games as well as the Gold cup break? If it's the former, how convenient of him. If it's the latter, then I have no issues with this.

I'm sure there aren't any lies around what is being said, but given that he seems to be willing to play every game for Orlando, I think it's a little too convenient. Combine this with his leaving the 2013 Gold Cup and turning down a call up for Gold Cup 2015 (despite playing club football at the time) to recover from a broken leg, there is some precedent here. Or perhaps he just doesn't like the Gold Cup, as per the following quote in this article from 2015:

Quote

“I don’t like how they set up the Gold Cup when you’re healthy, so for a guy coming off an injury … it just didn’t make sense for me.”

https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2015/07/06/gold-cup-will-johnson-picks-portland-timbers-over-canmnt-now-citing-injury-travel

Consider that in the article, Johnson states that he doesn't like the travel and amount of games between days. But, he happens to be okay with playing 3 games in 8 days with Orlando, flying from Orlando to Seattle to Chicago, all while dealing with this knee injury.

I think he has become quite the primadonna in the last few years. He shows up when he wants, not when he's called.

Edited June 28, 2017 by shermanator

[TRM]

It's a tough choice. There are too many games and not enough time to recover. Between league play, V's Cup/US Open and international call ups we are expecting players to play 45-50 games a year some years. Those niggly injuries that you can play with but not at 100% get more common the more games you play and the older you get.

Get well soon Will, and take care of yourself first.

[Club Linesman]

6 hours ago, Rheo said:

The amount of insiders who knows the ins and outs of the Canadian locker room and who can also psycho analyzes the team on this board amazes me

So true.  How about we let Zambrano take his perfect CMNT record into the Gold Cup and let him manage his second game with the squad before ripping him a new one for his decisions about who was picked and who was left off.

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

Just now, shermanator said:

The excuse Johnson is giving isn't sitting too well with me....

https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2015/07/06/gold-cup-will-johnson-picks-portland-timbers-over-canmnt-now-citing-injury-travel

"I asked to stay back. It just didn’t make sense; there’s three games in eight days with a stupid amount of travel"

 

I was hoping that he would actually like the schedule this time! Two games in Texas - the travel schedule is lighter this time.

Fuck it, let's just start Davies instead of making him a sub.

[Obinna]

6 hours ago, shermanator said:

The excuse Johnson is giving isn't sitting too well with me.

Is he going to play the next 2 games for Orlando and then rest his knee during the Gold Cup break? Or is he going to sit out the next few games as well as the Gold cup break? If it's the former, how convenient of him. If it's the latter, then I have no issues with this.

I'm sure there aren't any lies around what is being said, but given that he seems to be willing to play every game for Orlando, I think it's a little too convenient. Combine this with his leaving the 2013 Gold Cup and turning down a call up for Gold Cup 2015 (despite playing club football at the time) to recover from a broken leg, there is some precedent here. Or perhaps he just doesn't like the Gold Cup, as per the following quote in this article from 2015:

https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2015/07/06/gold-cup-will-johnson-picks-portland-timbers-over-canmnt-now-citing-injury-travel

Consider that in the article, Johnson states that he doesn't like the travel and amount of games between days. But, he happens to be okay with playing 3 games in 8 days with Orlando, flying from Orlando to Seattle to Chicago, all while dealing with this knee injury.

I think he has become quite the primadonna in the last few years. He shows up when he wants, not when he's called.

I think the difference is that Orando is his job. They pay him. 

While playing for Canada is an honour, it is on a volunteer basis. 

I wish we had Johnson for the opening stages but I understand the decision. I get why some people are fuming about it, but he's a 30 year old with injury problems.

I totally get the argument that if he's only going to travel and play with Orlando anyways he might as well travel and play with us, but if we put our fandom and bias aside, we'd see it doesn't make sense to go away for a tournament if you can't give 100 percent. It couldn't have been an easy decision.

If he further injures himself with Orlando, that is their business, but further injuring yourself on international duty for the Group Stage of the Gold Cup is not worth it. If he was carrying a knock as a young player with no history of major injury, I would tell him to suck it up, but that's not the case.

Hope to see you in the knock outs Will!

[harrycoyster]

3 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I think the difference is that Orando is his job. They pay him. 

While playing for Canada is an honour, it is on a volunteer basis. 

You know that Canadian players are paid per appearance for the national team right?

[Obinna]

Just now, harrycoyster said:

You know that Canadian players are paid per appearance for the national team right?

No I did not know that. 

If that is true it does not change my opinion. His primary responsibility is to his club.

Gold Cup travel is unnecessarily stupid, but it is not as bad this year, with two games in Texas.

I do think there is a little matter of Johnson just not really prioritizing the tournament group stage, but again, considering his injury history I don't really care.

If he turned down a call to the QF, I would be far less understanding.

[harrycoyster]

Just now, Obinna said:

Gold Cup travel is unnecessarily stupid, but it is not as bad this year, with two games in Texas.

It's also the biggest tournament we play in on a regular basis, and Johnson will be too old even if we make the WC in 2022. This is his chance to represent his country. Not wanting to take plain rides isn't a valid excuse in my book.

[Gian-Luca]

43 minutes ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

"I asked to stay back. It just didn’t make sense; there’s three games in eight days with a stupid amount of travel"

 

I was hoping that he would actually like the schedule this time! Two games in Texas - the travel schedule is lighter this time.

Fuck it, let's just start Davies instead of making him a sub.

That's a quote from a 2015 article that someone re-posted today. Although Will might very well say the same thing today.

I wouldn't be surprised if Johnson asked Zambrano if he was likely to start over Bernier and Arfield in the centre of midfield and Zambrano said no, not for 2 of the 3 round games and Will said "okay well I don't want to miss starting for my club for sitting on the bench for Canada". This is complete speculation on my part but isn't a million miles away from being the reason he left TFC after last year. Not that I blame a player for wanting to play/start.

[Obinna]

4 minutes ago, harrycoyster said:

It's also the biggest tournament we play in on a regular basis, and Johnson will be too old even if we make the WC in 2022. This is his chance to represent his country. Not wanting to take plain rides isn't a valid excuse in my book.

Yeah he will be too old, which is another reason why I couldn't care less. This is not a player we are building the program around. I am far more annoyed at Tabla turning us down.

Also, 2 games with Orlando versus 3 games with Canada in the same time span. It's easy to say, "well it's only 1 gane", but 1 extra game on short rest makes a difference.

Another factor is Orlando doing shit.

[harrycoyster]

Just now, Obinna said:

Yeah he will be too old, which is another reason why I couldn't care less. This is not a player we are building the program around. I am far more annoyed at Tabla turning us down.

Also, 2 games with Orlando versus 3 games with Canada in the same time span. It's easy to say, "well it's only 1 gane", but 1 extra game on short rest makes a difference.

Another factor is Orlando doing shit.

Are we not trying to win the Gold Cup? Because Johnson is a clear starter on our Gold Cup team. "He'll be old in 2022" is the exact reason why he should be trying to win trophies now!

Tabla isn't our player to get mad at yet. Johnson committed to our program and is rejecting the biggest set of games we will likely play in until 2019. 

[SpecialK]

I'm pissed he's not playing or even on the 40 man roster. He's better then Piette and Teibert I believe . But let's not get into that that debate. But what if he's really banged up? He wants to win with Orlando and yes they are in the shits now but they can turn it around, they are good team. Will is a horse, he plays a lot of mins and playing different kind of fields and MLS travel and coming off that horrible injury, what if he's hesitant and sees this as a break. I can respect that he wants to take care of his body. 

[shermanator]

47 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I think the difference is that Orando is his job. They pay him. 

While playing for Canada is an honour, it is on a volunteer basis. 

I wish we had Johnson for the opening stages but I understand the decision. I get why some people are fuming about it, but he's a 30 year old with injury problems.

I totally get the argument that if he's only going to travel and play with Orlando anyways he might as well travel and play with us, but if we put our fandom and bias aside, we'd see it doesn't make sense to go away for a tournament if you can't give 100 percent. It couldn't have been an easy decision.

If he further injures himself with Orlando, that is their business, but further injuring yourself on international duty for the Group Stage of the Gold Cup is not worth it. If he was carrying a knock as a young player with no history of major injury, I would tell him to suck it up, but that's not the case.

Hope to see you in the knock outs Will!

Honestly, I just don't buy the injury excuse, given that he hasn't missed any time with Orlando, and has done extensive travel while doing so. The travel from New York to Houston to Dallas is not as strenuous as from Orlando to Seattle to Chicago that he just did in the same amount of time. I don't think he's lying about the injury, but he sure isn't struggling to play through it with his club.

I think it's a cop out because he simply doesn't care about Gold Cup. Couple this with his rejection of the 2015 Gold Cup because of travel concerns and injury recovery (despite going 90 in 2 games 4 days apart with travel from Portland to Philly during the tournament), and his bailing on the 2013 Gold Cup part way through, there's a history here. 

So I guess let's call it what it is then, it's Johnson prioritizing club over country. For a friendly, that's completely understandable. But he's bailing on the only important matches for his country in a 4 year period. Yes Orlando pays him, but it's not as if he hasn't made a half decent living should he suffer a career ending injury tomorrow.

This is no different than Junior Hoilett saying "I'm just focusing on my club situation right now". The only difference is Johnson is doing it at a different point in his national team career. I dunno, maybe I expect the supposed leaders on our national team to take pride in every call up they get, rather than picking and choosing which call ups are convenient for them to attend.

Really disappointing from Johnson in my books. This is the type of stuff I expect from Cavallini, not him.

And again, should he sit out Orlando's next few matches and return after the Gold Cup break, that's fair, and I will change my view on the subject.

Edited June 29, 2017 by shermanator

[Big_M]

This is not acceptable from Johnson. These are the national team's biggest games for two years. After de Guzman and Hutchinson, he is our best DM and it was time to step up and be a leader as in Orlando. He knew the schedule, showed up at the June camp and played in the friendly and then decided he wasn't going to play in the competition. Canada should move forward without him unless he shows an attitude change towards the national team

[Scorpion26]

It's not like he's a game changer really, but I can understand why some can annoyed of him for not linking up with CMNT for the Gold Cup.... I'm not worried about him, because we may have to move from him anyways and find some youngsters ready to fill his spot well Hutchinson spot...

[harrycoyster]

20 minutes ago, Scorpion26 said:

It's not like he's a game changer really

Will Johnson is as good as any player on that Gold Cup roster. He is an everyday starter at the MLS level and is a proven performer for the national team. How many players on our 23 man roster can you say those two things about? Arfield...Hoilett...Bernier if you are feeling generous. That's it.

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, harrycoyster said:

Are we not trying to win the Gold Cup? Because Johnson is a clear starter on our Gold Cup team. "He'll be old in 2022" is the exact reason why he should be trying to win trophies now!

Tabla isn't our player to get mad at yet. Johnson committed to our program and is rejecting the biggest set of games we will likely play in until 2019. 

Is he really a starter though? Arfield (just a better player) and Bernier (as per Zambrano's comments) seem to be more clear cut starters to me.

It's a moot point as Johnson won't play in the group stage regardless.

Okay, we should be wanting to win trophies now of course, but if Johnson is less than 100% as he says, I don't think he absolutely needs to be included at this stage? Knockouts? Bring him in!

The way I see it is that Tabla is not committed to our program and Johnson is, so I am naturally more irked at the former, but he's young, still a kid, so whatever.

[harrycoyster]

3 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Is he really a starter though? Arfield (just a better player) and Bernier (as per Zambrano's comments) seem to be more clear cut starters to me.

It's a moot point as Johnson won't play in the group stage regardless.

Okay, we should be wanting to win trophies now of course, but if Johnson is less than 100% as he says, I don't think he absolutely needs to be included at this stage? Knockouts? Bring him in!

The way I see it is that Tabla is not committed to our program and Johnson is, so I am naturally more irked at the former, but he's young, still a kid, so whatever.

I'm not sure how OZ can look at how Johnson and Bernier have played in MLS this season and say Bernier is the better player, it really hasn't been close. I know that WhoScored ratings aren't a great measurement of player performance, but that gap between Johnson (63rd best player in MLS this season; second best player on Orlando) and Bernier (184th; tenth best player on Montreal) is a bit telling, even if you haven't watched them play. OZs comments were probably lip service. None of this matters though, as Johnson would also be the best RB on the team.

I don't get the whole injury argument as Johnson is going to be playing for Orlando at the weekend. And yeah, I'm not gonna get mad at a teenager for taking his time to decide one of the biggest decisions of his life. 

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, shermanator said:

Honestly, I just don't buy the injury excuse, given that he hasn't missed any time with Orlando, and has done extensive travel while doing so. The travel from New York to Houston to Dallas is not as strenuous as from Orlando to Seattle to Chicago that he just did in the same amount of time. I don't think he's lying about the injury, but he sure isn't struggling to play through it with his club.

I think it's a cop out because he simply doesn't care about Gold Cup. Couple this with his rejection of the 2015 Gold Cup because of travel concerns and injury recovery (despite going 90 in 2 games 4 days apart with travel from Portland to Philly during the tournament), and his bailing on the 2013 Gold Cup part way through, there's a history here. 

So I guess let's call it what it is then, it's Johnson prioritizing club over country. For a friendly, that's completely understandable. But he's bailing on the only important matches for his country in a 4 year period. Yes Orlando pays him, but it's not as if he hasn't made a half decent living should he suffer a career ending injury tomorrow.

This is no different than Junior Hoilett saying "I'm just focusing on my club situation right now". The only difference is Johnson is doing it at a different point in his national team career. I dunno, maybe I expect the supposed leaders on our national team to take pride in every call up they get, rather than picking and choosing which call ups are convenient for them to attend.

Really disappointing from Johnson in my books. This is the type of stuff I expect from Cavallini, not him.

And again, should he sit out Orlando's next few matches and return after the Gold Cup break, that's fair, and I will change my view on the subject.

Again, the travel with Orlando is part of his job. Playing for Canada at the Gold Cup is not. 

You are absolutely right. He is prioritizing club over country. Do I want him in the squad? Of course, but I disagree that he's "bailing" on Canada here, he's just being realistic with his body and what it can handle at this stage.

If I understood correctly, he only has two games with Orlando compared to three with Canada. It's the responsible decision not to over do it.

I am a little surprised to hear you suggest he should throw caution to the wind because, should he suffer a career ending injury, at least he's already earned a decent enough wage in his career. Very strongly disagree with that.

This is not Julian Dr Guzman playing his final WCQ on a bum knee at 35 years old. 

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, harrycoyster said:

I'm not sure how OZ can look at how Johnson and Bernier have played in MLS this season and say Bernier is the better player, it really hasn't been close. I know that WhoScored ratings aren't a great measurement of player performance, but that gap between Johnson (63rd best player in MLS this season; second best player on Orlando) and Bernier (184th; tenth best player on Montreal) is a bit telling, even if you haven't watched them play. OZs comments were probably lip service. None of this matters though, as Johnson would also be the best RB on the team.

I don't get the whole injury argument as Johnson is going to be playing for Orlando at the weekend. And yeah, I'm not gonna get mad at a teenager for taking his time to decide one of the biggest decisions of his life. 

I personally think Johnson is a better player than Bernier, but Zambrano has clearly decided that having an older, experienced player around is necessary, and he has chosen Bernier to be that player. It is what it is. 

I don't think Zambrano thinks Bernier is a better player than Johnson, but rather he believes that Bernier is what the CanMNT needs at this stage.

As for you not understanding the injury argument, why it is difficult to comprehend? 

He's managing his body and opting for 2 games with Orlando rather than 3 games with Canada. That is 270 tournament minutes versus 180 regular season minutes. Big difference. 

Secondly, whether we want to admit it or not, we are very much in a rebuilding phase for WC 2022. Yes, we want to go out and win it, but we also want to evaluate players, and Johnson's unfortunate situation allows us to do that. That is a silver lining. 

Besides, the Gold Cup won't be won in the group stage. No need to panic over this.

I honestly don't think anyone really cares that Johnson is skipping the group stage outside of a few disgruntled fans on this fourm.

Johnson is happy, Zambrano is happy, life goes on.

Let's hope we make the QF. Johnson will probably be in better physical condition for our knock out games because of this.