York United - 2023 Season Thread

[Big_M]

the disastrous pricing in the first year by behrooz zayandehroudi and then the change of identity were huge mistakes...needed to keep it to a small area and build relations there to get more support...just pushing it as a team for all the gta without much effort makes the opposite effect...no one cares

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

1 hour ago, CanadaFan123 said:

I guess we’ll wait for the other shoe to drop here. Attendance wasn’t great but surely they’re at least breaking even with player sales over the last year....

Are you being sarcastic with that? If the Valour lost close to $1 million last year, it is likely a lot closer to $2 million with York because their crowds are a lot smaller. Any transfer fees received have been relatively modest ones.

Wonder what it was that made the Baldassarras finally pull the plug? It's been blindingly obvious since well before the first game when they drew a pathetic number of memberships (or whatever they were called) compared to what was happening in the other cities that this team wasn't going to do well.

Either Woodbine is dead in the water or the obvious absence of a post-Qatar bounce in interest made them question how much difference 2026 is going to make would be my guess.

[Greatest Cockney Rip Off]

1 hour ago, Soccerpro2 said:

Here's my hot take:

It's hard to get people to care about lower-league sports teams in a big city like Toronto. Yes, York had a bad stadium and did things wrong but I think it's almost impossible to pull off a successful team in the gta  

It is hard but not impossible. If done correctly, you can have a situation like the Wolfpack who played in the third and second tier yet were drawing around 8,000 a match. I don’t think the stadium, marketing or identity did much to help York.  

[Watchmen]

11 minutes ago, Big_M said:

the disastrous pricing in the first year by behrooz zayandehroudi and then the change of identity were huge mistakes...needed to keep it to a small area and build relations there to get more support...just pushing it as a team for all the gta without much effort makes the opposite effect...no one cares

Looking west, at a team trying to "represent all of Vancouver" now....

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

7 minutes ago, Big_M said:

the disastrous pricing in the first year by behrooz zayandehroudi and then the change of identity were huge mistakes...

There were some other spectacular gaffes like the tables and seats for beside the pitch that were going to block the view of spectators in the farside bleachers and ultimately had to be moved up onto the concourse. Hiring people involved with TFC's early years was a bad move. TFC succeeded despite their presence not because of it. In all honesty though why was it going to be any different from the Lynx? Doubt the identity made much difference.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

1 minute ago, Watchmen said:

Looking west, at a team trying to "represent all of Vancouver" now....

They better hope the general admission tickets behind the goal are selling well because the seats down the side aren't.

[P-O]

Nothing wrong here. D3 attendances. 

I hope some markets will raise their hand and be ready for the next season.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Problem with doing something quickly is how they have painted themselves into a corner on stadium requirements.

[Soccerpro2]

23 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

Looking west, at a team trying to "represent all of Vancouver" now....

This ^

[Aird25]

25 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

Looking west, at a team trying to "represent all of Vancouver" now....

Let's allow them to play a home game before we start speculating. 

[Kent]

Not all that surprising, but this sucks. I was getting excited about the game against the Whitecaps, but this news is killing that optimism.

[Watchmen]

30 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

Let's allow them to play a home game before we start speculating. 

Fair, but I'm actually more curious about the 2nd game. The first game (especially the first ever for a team) usually draws much better.

[SoccMan]

So much was done wrong here but just looking on the field . This team should be challenging for top spot every year but in stead struggles to make playoffs almost since the first year . Wrong coaching hires and also front office hires . Moreover , very sporadic relationships with the youth clubs in the area an area full of youth clubs and private academies. Other clubs in the league come to the area and take players and coaches right from under this club . It’s really unfortunate that a soccer hotbed that is the GTA is having a club on the verge of going under .

[Aird25]

I guess they figure they aren't going to be able to leverage the team and stadium proposal into a real estate deal

[narduch]

7 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

I guess they figure they aren't going to be able to leverage the team and stadium proposal into a real estate deal

I think they were hoping to get government funding for their stadium by linking it to the World Cup bid.

However the City of Toronto is committed to 2 different sites.

My guess is today's news is connected to the ownership giving up on Woodbine Racetrack. 

[ATM]

1 hour ago, narduch said:

I think they were hoping to get government funding for their stadium by linking it to the World Cup bid.

However the City of Toronto is committed to 2 different sites.

My guess is today's news is connected to the ownership giving up on Woodbine Racetrack. 

I never thought the New Woodbine was really a possibility.....no facts.....just a gut feeling

 

[narduch]

1 minute ago, ATM said:

I never thought the New Woodbine was really a possibility.....no facts.....just a gut feeling

 

From reading the articles it seemed like it was only ever a proposal.

The fancy renderings were probably being used for the lobbying.

[Unnamed Trialist]

6 hours ago, Soccerpro2 said:

Here's my hot take:

It's hard to get people to care about lower-league sports teams in a big city like Toronto. Yes, York had a bad stadium and did things wrong but I think it's almost impossible to pull off a successful team in the GTA.

Move the team to Kelowna, KW, Quebec City, anywhere.

I don't believe for one second that "better marketing" suddenly makes 5k people show up in a metro of 5 million rather than the 900 people they currently get.

 

 

I 100% believe that Toronto is NOT the problem. 

Point is, it is a major city and a sports city. It is not like a few cities out there which really are not (Paris), it is more like cities that can sustain multiple teams. We are talking about a few thousand with a bond to the club. You put together an intimate stadium with some quality amenities, in the right location, you are there. 

What is the distance between York Lions and BMO, just over 20km maybe? BMO is on an extreme end of the city, in fact. BC Place to Swangard is even further than that, and VFC was always clear about a clear separation to capture a different demographic, that Swangard was not far out enough.

Then the branding: how many people in North York or the country identify as such?

[ATM]

5 hours ago, Greatest Cockney Rip Off said:

It is hard but not impossible. If done correctly, you can have a situation like the Wolfpack who played in the third and second tier yet were drawing around 8,000 a match. I don’t think the stadium, marketing or identity did much to help York.  

Granted, but the Wolfpack was not  competing with TFC or any Soccer League in Ontario.

York United on the other hand had big brother TFC, and the established League 1 Ontario. I have seen several L1O games and they are entertaining. And what made it worse was there are several York Region teams in L1O.

That's a lot of soccer....I don't think the Wolfpack had that many Pro and semi-pro teams they needed to compete with for the entertainment dollar.

[narduch]

According to Rocket Robin`s match report of Vaughan Azzurri`s L1O home opener, they had 500-600 people. That is basically the amount that came out to York United`s last game.

They played at North Maple Regional Park. Which is 20 km north of York Lions Stadium. (Incidentally this is the same location where Bontis made his shady side deal with the Vaughan Mayor to try to put a training centre for the World Cup).

If you build a proper stadium Vaughan SC maybe could work in CPL.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

When somebody posted the crowd had been announced as 800 something on Saturday it was ominous but I was surprised this news came so quick on the heels of that. Hopefully we don't hear a Valour crowd announced as 1000 something any time soon because I doubt the league could handle having two of the original ownership groups bailing out in quick succession. Figuring out how to have something reasonably viable in place as the league's eighth club in 2024 won't be easy.

[Rocket Robin]

Ah.  It's a few pages back already but some hipsters have suggest Lamport Stadium for a CPL team. 

TFC II was there for one season (2018) and drew 200 fans a game.   They retreated to their training centre and dropped a USL division so they didn't have to be in a big stadium. 

The team was on hiatus in 2020 because of COVID and got some home games at their training ground late in the 2021 season after playing 'home' games in Florida to start. 

They came back last year in MLS NEXT Pro and tried York Lions Stadium even though their stadium was not officially open and drew between 400 to 600.  One game so far and 600 with everyone paying a reasonable $10 or more likely being on the guest list.  No concession stands open but one food truck parked outside the gates. (Yes "Poutine + More" that has been in the end zone for York games). 

In their Ontario Soccer Centre days in Vaughan they'd have 1000 to 1200.  

Lamport attendance may be even worse these days as the main subway line at the northern end is closed every second or third weekend for the endless construction of the crosstown line (with a further delay in its estimated completion, that will close in on eight years!).  

York Lions  Stadium is right on the subway line (the one that doesn't close) 

Now the Ontario Science Centre will be moved downtown even though it's also on a subway line.  No fun above Eglinton Avenue. 

[nfitz]

8 hours ago, -Hammer- said:

Lamport is probably the best location you can hope for, save that you basically need to make sure you never schedule anything the same time that TFC plays. That however is the problem, MLSE will do everything in it's power to make sure that doesn't happen. 

Lamport isn't a better location than York - it's not near the subway, and not as easy to drive to. Sure, TFC can deal with that disadvantage - but I think they'd draw better if they'd gone to York, which was the original plan.

The new subway station at Exhibition would mitigate that, but it won't open until 2030 or 2031.

 

8 hours ago, Dominic94 said:

Are the attendance issues solely stadium related ?

I don't see that they are stadium-related at all. It's a nice, modern stadium, with good view of the pitch. And well located. I was quite impressed when I visited previously - the only downside was the poor turnout.

The stands at Lamport are in horrible shape, and are barely better than 1960s bleachers. I'm surprised they didn't collapse under the weight of the sold-out Wolfpack games.

I'd think Varsity stadium would be a better choice frankly than Lamport.

That said - and I think everyone will disagree with me - I think MLSE ownership of York could be the long-term solution. The same way they own the Marlies - and use a different location than ScotiaBank.

Edited April 25, 2023 by nfitz

[ATM]

12 minutes ago, nfitz said:

Lamport isn't a better location than York - it's not near the subway, and not as easy to drive to. Sure, TFC can deal with that disadvantage - but I think they'd draw better if they'd gone to York, which was the original plan.

The new subway station at Exhibition would mitigate that, but it won't open until 2030 or 2031.

 

I don't see that they are stadium-related at all. It's a nice, modern stadium, with good view of the pitch. And well located. I was quite impressed when I visited previously - the only downside was the poor turnout.

The stands at Lamport are in horrible shape, and are barely better than 1960s bleachers. I'm surprised they didn't collapse under the weight of the sold-out Wolfpack games.

I'd think Varsity stadium would be a better choice frankly than Lamport.

That said - and I think everyone will disagree with me - I think MLSE ownership of York could be the long-term solution. The same way they own the Marlies - and use a different location than ScotiaBank.

They already have TFC 2......I do not want MLSE owning another team in Toronto. 

[nfitz]

23 minutes ago, ATM said:

They already have TFC 2......I do not want MLSE owning another team in Toronto. 

TFC 2 is a standard MLS second team. I'm thinking of an entirely different team, that isn't branded TFC, and isn't part of the TFC Academy structure.

I'm not sure we should care who owns it, if they have deep pockets, are willing to invest in the future, and help keep the CPL in Toronto. We need to be above simply eliminating a stable option, because they are "MLSE".