Sean Rea

[PegCityCam]

21 minutes ago, sebdeserio said:

Really think he can replicate Koné's rapid development if he gets the opportunity.

I have no doubt Rea will continue to improve and one day move on from the MLS like Koné, but their development paths have been basically polar opposites. Koné, as we know, is on a freak-level rise whereas Rea's rise has been slow and steady. Rea has been in the CF Montreal system since age 12. He began attending Canada camps at the age of 14 and played with the u15s and 17s a few times. He signed a 3 year contract with Montreal at 18 and just completed his second year on loan to Valour. Koné, on the other hand couldn't crack into the CF Montreal academy even though he trialed 3 times, had no involvement with team Canada until the senior level and was unemployed before he signed with Montreal at 19 last year. I hope I'm not sounding disingenuous because I'm with you in hoping he can continue this exciting ascension.

[Shway]

@PegCityCam

You're literally just showing how someone can slip through the cracks Vs a player who’s nurtured through the system. 

Both could have the same outcome. 
Timing could just be different. 

[PegCityCam]

3 minutes ago, Shway said:

@PegCityCam

You're literally just showing how someone can slip through the cracks Vs a player who’s nurtured through the system. 

Both could have the same outcome. 
Timing could just be different. 

No objections here. Just highlighting that their development paths are not the same. One cannot "replicate" the other. That's all. Nice use of "literally" though🤣

[costarg]

1 hour ago, PegCityCam said:

I have no doubt Rea will continue to improve and one day move on from the MLS like Koné, but their development paths have been basically polar opposites. Koné, as we know, is on a freak-level rise whereas Rea's rise has been slow and steady. Rea has been in the CF Montreal system since age 12. He began attending Canada camps at the age of 14 and played with the u15s and 17s a few times. He signed a 3 year contract with Montreal at 18 and just completed his second year on loan to Valour. Koné, on the other hand couldn't crack into the CF Montreal academy even though he trialed 3 times, had no involvement with team Canada until the senior level and was unemployed before he signed with Montreal at 19 last year. I hope I'm not sounding disingenuous because I'm with you in hoping he can continue this exciting ascension.

Totally unrelated and a tad random, but gotta say, the way you wrote that bit made Archer's Kane and Abel come to mind (I'm talking Archers here, not Genesis).  I freakin love that book.

[Dominic94]

1 hour ago, PegCityCam said:

I have no doubt Rea will continue to improve and one day move on from the MLS like Koné, but their development paths have been basically polar opposites. Koné, as we know, is on a freak-level rise whereas Rea's rise has been slow and steady. Rea has been in the CF Montreal system since age 12. He began attending Canada camps at the age of 14 and played with the u15s and 17s a few times. He signed a 3 year contract with Montreal at 18 and just completed his second year on loan to Valour. Koné, on the other hand couldn't crack into the CF Montreal academy even though he trialed 3 times, had no involvement with team Canada until the senior level and was unemployed before he signed with Montreal at 19 last year. I hope I'm not sounding disingenuous because I'm with you in hoping he can continue this exciting ascension.

Kone had been training with them since last January though. He sure made the most of it.

[Dominic94]

I think people in MLS are sleeping on him and MTL. He’s going to make the most of his opportunities.

 

to be blunt… if he tore up next pro or USL people down south would give him a lot more respect.

 

let’s not forget they called Can PL D3…

[Sal333]

10 hours ago, Dominic94 said:

I think people in MLS are sleeping on him and MTL. He’s going to make the most of his opportunities.

 

to be blunt… if he tore up next pro or USL people down south would give him a lot more respect.

 

let’s not forget they called Can PL D3…

I agree with you.

His first year in the CPL I was indifferent to Rea. Last year he really impressed me with his development. I really think he'll become a star for CFM within the next two years.

[pod818]

looking at his highlights, I can see why people are so high on him. A few world class goals and assists mixed in there, and his technical skills look really good. Not surprising he's getting some interest from European teams. Last year, the CFM player I followed most closely was Koné. This year, it will be Rea, really excited about his progress. 

[InglewoodJack]

Rea's development is really interesting to me because he's effectively the first (?) player who is following the path that young players need to pass through in order to properly build a development pipeline. He's been with one of the largest clubs in the country since he was a kid, they loaned him "down a division" to the CPL, he improved, he's now made the big team, and he already has some european interest, and at his current rate, he'll likely leave Montreal before he hits his prime. If you look at any top national team, this is the path all of their best players take. Come up through a Premier League academy, get loaned to League One, eventually make the big team, then get sold to a champions league club before they're 23, and the rest is history.

Our CPL players who have ended up in Europe are usually projects that could get good- if Rea does move on before long, he'll be going to Europe with a profile closer to Kone's ie a player who is growing, but who you are acquiring to actually help you win and not as someone who could be a real one in a couple years.

 

[Aird25]

25 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

Rea's development is really interesting to me because he's effectively the first (?) player who is following the path that young players need to pass through in order to properly build a development pipeline. He's been with one of the largest clubs in the country since he was a kid, they loaned him "down a division" to the CPL, he improved, he's now made the big team, and he already has some european interest, and at his current rate, he'll likely leave Montreal before he hits his prime. If you look at any top national team, this is the path all of their best players take. Come up through a Premier League academy, get loaned to League One, eventually make the big team, then get sold to a champions league club before they're 23, and the rest is history.

Our CPL players who have ended up in Europe are usually projects that could get good- if Rea does move on before long, he'll be going to Europe with a profile closer to Kone's ie a player who is growing, but who you are acquiring to actually help you win and not as someone who could be a real one in a couple years.

 

I'm a fan of Rea, but let's let him settle in at Montreal before talking about him moving to Europe. I don't think we should be discounting what Loturi, Abzi, Zator, Alghamdi etc. are doing either. It may not be the Championship, but we have CPL exports performing at decent levels.

[Fresh Prince of MTL]

31 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

I'm a fan of Rea, but let's let him settle in at Montreal before talking about him moving to Europe. I don't think we should be discounting what Loturi, Abzi, Zator, Alghamdi etc. are doing either. It may not be the Championship, but we have CPL exports performing at decent levels.

If Ross County play their cards right Loturi could be in the (Scottish) Championship next year!

[InglewoodJack]

41 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

I'm a fan of Rea, but let's let him settle in at Montreal before talking about him moving to Europe. I don't think we should be discounting what Loturi, Abzi, Zator, Alghamdi etc. are doing either. It may not be the Championship, but we have CPL exports performing at decent levels.

I'm talking about Europe because he's already gotten interest and that's obviously the path he's headed down. No rush for him to move, but the MLS Academy > CPL > MLS > abroad is the dev plan we should hope most of our key players take in the future, because using our own domestic development system is the most sustainable path towards building a consistent pipeline of top prospects. That's how top countries do it, and I'm happy that he's following a very traditional path towards success, which isn't something we see many players take.

I'm not at all discounting what those players have done- if anything, they've been able to move to bigger things in spite of our development system, not because of it. For players to follow the path that the guys you mention have, they need to hope their agent has the proper connections with the proper teams that rate the CPL, that have access to enough game footage to rate you, are willing to fly a kid from an upstart league across the world to come trial, they need to secure wages that make sense, and that said kid is not only good enough to make the team, but is better than the locals also trialing. That will continue to happen, and some great CPLers will have amazing careers by directly moving abroad, but you can't count on that model to actually grow your national team in any sustainable way, there are too many variables. Rea's path is more sustainable. He developed in his local academy, he went pro in his domestic league, he's earning his spot now at one of the biggest clubs in the country who is extremely involved in his development, he isn't taking massive leaps at each step, and he's putting himself in a good spot to attract even bigger teams in a year or two. Basically, Rea has taken advantage of a developmental path that is explicitly meant for players like him (domestic players developing domestically), and I think the key to us growing as a soccer nation is for players to take that exact path. Still remains to see what his actual peak is, but this is more or less what our young players need to be doing.

[Aird25]

22 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

I'm talking about Europe because he's already gotten interest and that's obviously the path he's headed down. No rush for him to move, but the MLS Academy > CPL > MLS > abroad is the dev plan we should hope most of our key players take in the future, because using our own domestic development system is the most sustainable path towards building a consistent pipeline of top prospects. That's how top countries do it, and I'm happy that he's following a very traditional path towards success, which isn't something we see many players take.

I'm not at all discounting what those players have done- if anything, they've been able to move to bigger things in spite of our development system, not because of it. For players to follow the path that the guys you mention have, they need to hope their agent has the proper connections with the proper teams that rate the CPL, that have access to enough game footage to rate you, are willing to fly a kid from an upstart league across the world to come trial, they need to secure wages that make sense, and that said kid is not only good enough to make the team, but is better than the locals also trialing. That will continue to happen, and some great CPLers will have amazing careers by directly moving abroad, but you can't count on that model to actually grow your national team in any sustainable way, there are too many variables. Rea's path is more sustainable. He developed in his local academy, he went pro in his domestic league, he's earning his spot now at one of the biggest clubs in the country who is extremely involved in his development, he isn't taking massive leaps at each step, and he's putting himself in a good spot to attract even bigger teams in a year or two. Basically, Rea has taken advantage of a developmental path that is explicitly meant for players like him (domestic players developing domestically), and I think the key to us growing as a soccer nation is for players to take that exact path. Still remains to see what his actual peak is, but this is more or less what our young players need to be doing.

Again, I'm happy with Rea's path, but it's not the only one. CPL is another option for domestic players to develop domestically, as you put it, and then transfer abroad. I imagine we'll see more and more of that as the league becomes more established. Not every national team player is going to pass through MLS, but it's great that some continue to. Those players didn't go over and trial. They were either sold by CPL clubs or they signed directly by clubs in various countries. Every CPL match is recorded, and broadcast in several countries. There isn't a shortage of footage for CPL players.  

[costarg]

I'm loving this for a couple of reasons:

1- Will give us a gauge as how the best young developping talent in CPL fits into MLS.  Good step or too big a hurdle?

2- Like @InglewoodJackalluded to, this is what we want to see from the Academies and CPL.  This is the ideal development path we want to see more often.  

 

 

[InglewoodJack]

1 hour ago, Aird25 said:

Again, I'm happy with Rea's path, but it's not the only one. CPL is another option for domestic players to develop domestically, as you put it, and then transfer abroad. I imagine we'll see more and more of that as the league becomes more established. Not every national team player is going to pass through MLS, but it's great that some continue to. Those players didn't go over and trial. They were either sold by CPL clubs or they signed directly by clubs in various countries. Every CPL match is recorded, and broadcast in several countries. There isn't a shortage of footage for CPL players.  

It's not the only path, it's just the most sustainable one. The best players will always move to bigger teams younger, but no other country is more invested in developing Canadians than we are, and players being able to incrementally climb up several levels of the domestic "pyramid" is the best way to ensure players are getting the best and most consistent development opportunities possible. It's what every top soccer nation does- you can't build sustained success on the hopes that your players will get plucked out of obscurity and just explode on the world stage.

Rea's pathway also effectively justifies the concept of the CPL. Making the league's goal to sell players to Europe is not a sustainable model- they'll continue to sell to Europe as they should, but having our domestic league's purpose being to sell players to Scotland and Poland will only get you so far. Having the league serve as a developmental step before a player inches up to the MLS is a far better model, especially because so many more players have a chance to develop that way. I think Rea is europe bound because I'm really high on him, but even guys who max out as MLS starters, who got their start in the CPL, that's what we want to see.

Also re: game footage- they do have access, but it's also a question of how the team rates the CPL, if they understand how it compares to other smaller leagues like Australia's, or Serbia's, or South Africa's, etc.. Bottom line is without a stream of players following Rea's pathway, you're basically leaving the national team's fate in the hands of foreign sporting directors who couldn't care less if a player is from Saskatoon or Senegal, and that model means ebbs and flows in team strength depending on the luck you have on the international market, vs. having a solid group of players who are inching up our own pyramid at an appropriate pace.

[Aird25]

40 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

It's not the only path, it's just the most sustainable one. The best players will always move to bigger teams younger, but no other country is more invested in developing Canadians than we are, and players being able to incrementally climb up several levels of the domestic "pyramid" is the best way to ensure players are getting the best and most consistent development opportunities possible. It's what every top soccer nation does- you can't build sustained success on the hopes that your players will get plucked out of obscurity and just explode on the world stage.

Rea's pathway also effectively justifies the concept of the CPL. Making the league's goal to sell players to Europe is not a sustainable model- they'll continue to sell to Europe as they should, but having our domestic league's purpose being to sell players to Scotland and Poland will only get you so far. Having the league serve as a developmental step before a player inches up to the MLS is a far better model, especially because so many more players have a chance to develop that way. I think Rea is europe bound because I'm really high on him, but even guys who max out as MLS starters, who got their start in the CPL, that's what we want to see.

Also re: game footage- they do have access, but it's also a question of how the team rates the CPL, if they understand how it compares to other smaller leagues like Australia's, or Serbia's, or South Africa's, etc.. Bottom line is without a stream of players following Rea's pathway, you're basically leaving the national team's fate in the hands of foreign sporting directors who couldn't care less if a player is from Saskatoon or Senegal, and that model means ebbs and flows in team strength depending on the luck you have on the international market, vs. having a solid group of players who are inching up our own pyramid at an appropriate pace.

My point is simply that MLS is one of many options. Not that it's a poor one, though I don't think it's necessarily always the best one for each and every player either. There's a reason a player like David turned down MLS to move to Europe. I also don't think MLS is necessarily the most incremental step from CPL. They spend big money on attackers, and we've yet to see many CPL goal scorers given an opportunity. It's also very physical, which doesn't suit every player, so I like moves like Bustos' and Diaz to Scandanavia.

I do like that Montreal has been quite successful loaning young players to CPL and getting them professional experience. Our MLS academy players have often lacked that link to pro experience, so I hope that continues. So far 'Rea's pathway' isn't too different from a number of CPL players (Sirois, Pantemis, Yao, Singh, Waterman, MacNaughton etc.) that have either been loaned or transferred between CPL and MLS. These transfers are one of many reasons the concept of the CPL is justified.

[InglewoodJack]

22 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

My point is simply that MLS is one of many options. Not that it's a poor one, though I don't think it's necessarily always the best one for each and every player either. There's a reason a player like David turned down MLS to move to Europe. I also don't think MLS is necessarily the most incremental step from CPL. They spend big money on attackers, and we've yet to see many CPL goal scorers given an opportunity. It's also very physical, which doesn't suit every player, so I like moves like Bustos' and Diaz to Scandanavia.

I do like that Montreal has been quite successful loaning young players to CPL and getting them professional experience. Our MLS academy players have often lacked that link to pro experience, so I hope that continues. So far 'Rea's pathway' isn't too different from a number of CPL players (Sirois, Pantemis, Yao, Singh, Waterman, MacNaughton etc.) that have either been loaned or transferred between CPL and MLS. These transfers are one of many reasons the concept of the CPL is justified.

Jonathan David was able to do that because he's a generational talent, I think that will always be the case for players at his level, but for guys a step behind that, a domestic pipeline is the most sure shot way that non-generational players have a shot at being developed properly.That isn't to say that the MLS is perfect, but if we look at any top team, their best players are often developed at home. Brazil is able to get a ton of 15 year olds to Madrid and Barcelona for a gazillion dollars, but they also have an excellent domestic league and national team players that have climbed up the ladder there before jumping abroad. Same with England, Belgium, so on.

I'm a big fan of any CPL move to europe, and I like both the moves you mentioned, but our players have such less leeway there than at home. Take Loturi- fast forward 4 months, say he loses a bit of form, Ross County get sent down, and all of a sudden, the market for a middish foreign scottish championship player is going to be close to zilch, and he'd likely end up right back in the CPL. I compare that to a player like Zouhir (a few years younger, obv) who was the golden prospect, got de-prioritized for Kone who was way better, but Montreal kept him because they know him, they've invested in his development, they see the vision, and they're going to keep him until they sell him or they really flame out. Even at 19, I don't think he'd have that leeway in Europe. Pepple certainly didn't- Grimsby barely gave him a chance, acquired players at the deadline, and then glued him to the bench until he was sent back to Luton's dev team. Not to say they shouldn't have made those moves, I respect the ambition and the chance to stick on there is worth it, but when some of those prospects don't pan out, having that consistent pipeline at home keeps players coming.

All of the players you listed are following a similar path, and that's been awesome- I'm considering Rea the "first" because I don't think any of the mentioned names necessarily have a level beyond MLS, or in other words, I don't think they'll be key difference makers on our NT, at least sooner than Rea is. Waterman is another one who followed this path, but just at an older age. I've said it before, but if the CPL existed just a few years earlier, I think he would've developped quicker, and may have bneen able to get to where he is now at a younger age.

 

tl;dr- having multiple tiers of soccer to develop players across domestically is a very good thing, and I think that the makeup of an elite CANMNT (top 20 worldwide) will have to have quite a few players developed like Rea, because not all of our prospects will be as elite as David and Davies, and not all of our foreign prospects are going to get the opportunities they deserve.

[Aird25]

1 hour ago, InglewoodJack said:

Jonathan David was able to do that because he's a generational talent, I think that will always be the case for players at his level, but for guys a step behind that, a domestic pipeline is the most sure shot way that non-generational players have a shot at being developed properly.That isn't to say that the MLS is perfect, but if we look at any top team, their best players are often developed at home. Brazil is able to get a ton of 15 year olds to Madrid and Barcelona for a gazillion dollars, but they also have an excellent domestic league and national team players that have climbed up the ladder there before jumping abroad. Same with England, Belgium, so on.

I'm a big fan of any CPL move to europe, and I like both the moves you mentioned, but our players have such less leeway there than at home. Take Loturi- fast forward 4 months, say he loses a bit of form, Ross County get sent down, and all of a sudden, the market for a middish foreign scottish championship player is going to be close to zilch, and he'd likely end up right back in the CPL. I compare that to a player like Zouhir (a few years younger, obv) who was the golden prospect, got de-prioritized for Kone who was way better, but Montreal kept him because they know him, they've invested in his development, they see the vision, and they're going to keep him until they sell him or they really flame out. Even at 19, I don't think he'd have that leeway in Europe. Pepple certainly didn't- Grimsby barely gave him a chance, acquired players at the deadline, and then glued him to the bench until he was sent back to Luton's dev team. Not to say they shouldn't have made those moves, I respect the ambition and the chance to stick on there is worth it, but when some of those prospects don't pan out, having that consistent pipeline at home keeps players coming.

All of the players you listed are following a similar path, and that's been awesome- I'm considering Rea the "first" because I don't think any of the mentioned names necessarily have a level beyond MLS, or in other words, I don't think they'll be key difference makers on our NT, at least sooner than Rea is. Waterman is another one who followed this path, but just at an older age. I've said it before, but if the CPL existed just a few years earlier, I think he would've developped quicker, and may have bneen able to get to where he is now at a younger age.

 

tl;dr- having multiple tiers of soccer to develop players across domestically is a very good thing, and I think that the makeup of an elite CANMNT (top 20 worldwide) will have to have quite a few players developed like Rea, because not all of our prospects will be as elite as David and Davies, and not all of our foreign prospects are going to get the opportunities they deserve.

It's a nice thought, in theory, but Canadian MLS teams drop Canadian players all the time. Just look at Yao, Dunn, Fraser, Baldisimo, Godinho, Bayiha, Tabla etc. The list is long. There's some added security being a domestic player, but MLS teams are still competitive and there are only so many roster spots. I wonder how Lowell Wright feels about his move to Vancouver right now. Not much different from Pepple.

Playing 90 minutes regularly in the SPL at 21 is probably not going to hurt Loturi's career. I'm not sure he'd be getting those same minutes at an MLS club. We've also had quite a few journeyman in Scotland, Germany, England and elsewhere. Dario Zanatta is on his seventh Scottish club right now.

[An Observer]

For me, i just wish that TFC and the Whitecaps would use CPL for 3 or 4 of their near ready players each year to get them consistent playing time like CFM has done.  I just don’t think MLSNext is the answer for those types.  Adam Pearlman springs to mind for this year and so does Campagna.  And there are probably a few others.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

14 hours ago, costarg said:

... 2- Like @InglewoodJackalluded to, this is what we want to see from the Academies and CPL.  This is the ideal development path we want to see more often.  

Agreed but it looks like increasingly it is going to be Next Pro rather than CanPL as the pathway and that means almost nobody is going to be watching these players improve. PdS of the Valour said in a recent interview that he thought MLS loans like Sean Rea's were not going to be happening so often in future.

[P-O]

The more Canadians go to next pro, the more opportunities there are for Canadians who might have felt in the cracks. 

Our league is growing, it is just the beginning.

[narduch]

4 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Agreed but it looks like increasingly it is going to be Next Pro rather than CanPL as the pathway and that means almost nobody is going to be watching these players improve. PdS of the Valour said in a recent interview that he thought MLS loans like Sean Rea's were not going to be happening so often in future.

Actual Americans realize what a joke Next Pro is. But the resident Canadian CPL hater is here to pump its tires.

The good stuff starts at 8:20

 

 

Edited February 25, 2023 by narduch

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

34 minutes ago, P-O said:

The more Canadians go to next pro, ...

Would have been better if all the best Canadian players coming through the three MLS academies (e.g. most of the U-17 team that was playing recently) had CanPL rather than Next Pro as part of their career pathway. That ship has definitely sailed now. For whatever reason the CanPL investors do not appear to have wanted even rebranded affiliate teams. Even the limited number of loans that have been happening such as Sean Rea's are going to be fewer in future if PdS is to be believed.

Edited February 25, 2023 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[narduch]

2 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Would have been better if all the best Canadian players coming through the three MLS academies (e.g. most of the U-17 team that was playing recently) had CanPL rather than Next Pro as part of their career pathway. That ship has definitely sailed now. For whatever reason the CanPL investors do not appear to have wanted even rebranded affiliate teams. Even the limited number of loans that have been happening such as Sean Rea's are going to be fewer in future if PdS is to be believed.

Other than TFC do we even know if Whitecaps or Impact wanted to join the CPL?

[P-O]

A D1 with reserve clubs is a joke.

Montreal uses the loan system with CPL and it works. It gives kids a chance to sign new contract or get a chance with the first team.

What kids need are minutes in meaningful games.