Ozzie_the_parrot Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 5 minutes ago, P-O said: A D1 with reserve clubs is a joke... Do you understand why I wrote rebranded affiliate rather than reserve club? Find it interesting that the CanPL investors don't seem to have a problem with Atletico Ottawa when that doesn't add anything comparable to what working cooperatively with the three MLS clubs could have done in terms of providing a pathway for the best young Canadian players. The whole thing was supposed to be about providing more opportunities for Canadian players after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaFan123 Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 2 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said: Do you understand why I wrote rebranded affiliate rather than reserve club? Find it interesting that the CanPL investors don't seem to have a problem with Atletico Ottawa when that doesn't add anything comparable to what working cooperatively with the three MLS clubs could have done in terms of providing a pathway for the best young Canadian players. The whole thing was supposed to be about providing more opportunities for Canadian players after all. This already failed for the MLS clubs? Both competitively and financially. I’d expect you of all people would understand that. TFC 2 was slaughtered in USL Pro - they would be a worse version of 2022 FC Edmonton on the pitch and in the stands and would be a stain on the league. Fresh Prince of MTL 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzie_the_parrot Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 (edited) Do you also understand why I wrote rebranded affiliate rather than reserve club? TFC 2 was a reserve club in a USL context and is therefore not the model of operations that I have consistently suggested was the compromise approach that could have been followed in a CanPL context. Edited February 25, 2023 by Ozzie_the_parrot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaFan123 Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 Just now, Ozzie_the_parrot said: Do you also understand why I wrote rebranded affiliate rather than reserve club? TFC 2 was a reserve club and is therefore not the model of operations that I have consistently suggested was the compromise approach that could have been followed in a CanPL context. Why would they burn money doing that? Just loan players to CPL. What you’re suggesting makes no sense for anyone. longlugan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzie_the_parrot Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 (edited) What I am suggesting would have allowed the MLS clubs to control the technical side of operations in a CanPL context which is something that is not there when players are simply loaned. There would also have been scope to send more players and to have them play in games with a competitive edge that actually matter, which is where MLS Next Pro falls down IMO. In the context of an affiliate older experienced players could be mixed into the roster contracted only to the CanPL club rather than having an outright reserve team so that there is a separate identity to the club. At no point have I ever advocated that TFC 2 or Whitecaps 2 type reserve teams should have been allowed into CanPL. Edited February 25, 2023 by Ozzie_the_parrot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narduch Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 14 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said: What I am suggesting would have allowed the MLS clubs to control the technical side of operations in a CanPL context which is something that is not there when players are simply loaned. There would also have been scope to send more players and to have them play in games with a competitive edge that actually matter, which is where MLS Next Pro falls down IMO. In the context of an affiliate older experienced players could be mixed into the roster contracted only to the CanPL club rather than having an outright reserve team so that there is a separate identity to the club. At no point have I ever advocated that TFC 2 or Whitecaps 2 type reserve teams should have been allowed into CanPL. But this is just utopian bs made up in your head. longlugan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaFan123 Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 20 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said: What I am suggesting would have allowed the MLS clubs to control the technical side of operations in a CanPL context which is something that is not there when players are simply loaned. There would also have been scope to send more players and to have them play in games with a competitive edge that actually matter, which is where MLS Next Pro falls down IMO. In the context of an affiliate older experienced players could be mixed into the roster contracted only to the CanPL club rather than having an outright reserve team so that there is a separate identity to the club. At no point have I ever advocated that TFC 2 or Whitecaps 2 type reserve teams should have been allowed into CanPL. I understand that. What you’re suggesting makes no sense for anyone financially or competitively, whether it be the MLS clubs or CPL. Startup fees are in the millions to begin with never mind the added expense you’re suggesting of branding an entirely new club. Then year after year you’re running a club that brings in next to no revenue because let’s be real - no one cares if it’s rebranded, they’re not supporting a reserve team. It would only makes sense from an egotistical perspective for the MLS clubs, which is why I suspect you’re advocating for it. longlugan and narduch 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison44 Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 There is the crux of the whole thing......"would have allowed the MLS clubs to control". Why do we need MLS to control things? If we have our own league focused on our players, like MLS is focused on developing american players, why would we let MLS get their sticky little fingers in?? MLS is going to force all the CDN clubs to have reserve teams in their NExtPro league which so far doesnt even sell tickets or have any fans. Does TFC have so much money and so many players they can fund a independent affiliate and a reserve club?? If they have players that need playing time and they can work out a loan deal, go for it, just like leagues all over the world do. It worked out just fine for Pantemis, Sirois and Rea. Maybe if "some" mls teams worked with CPL the entire soccer landscape in canada would be better off. dyslexic nam, johnyb, narduch and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzie_the_parrot Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 (edited) 22 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said: ... It would only makes sense from an egotistical perspective for the MLS clubs, ... It would make sense from the point of view of developing many of the best CMNT prospects, which is why people on this board might reasonably be expected to view it as a good idea given this is a CMNT forum rather than a CanPL one. Edited February 25, 2023 by Ozzie_the_parrot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 Montreal receives plaudits for cheaping out on having a true reserve side and instead sending a handful of players to CPL every year, while the other two teams get criticized for actually funding more paying jobs for their young players. I actually agree that the better prospects from the MLS teams (the ones not ready for MLS but in need of a step up from academy soccer and MLS NextPro) would be well served getting loaned to the CPL, but what Montreal's doing is essentially giving up on their 6th-best prospect and onward and betting the house on the Reas, Yaos and Siroises of the world. It's worked so far (to a degree) but the late-blooming Montreal-area player would have less of a chance of slipping through the cracks if there's a NextPro team or equivalent side to fall back on. To me, the best option would be for the three MLS teams to do both: field a NextPro team and send their better prospects to the CPL. None of the three do that, even though they easily could. (I'm really trying to avoid this subject, I swear...) Corazon, PegCityCam, Shway and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sal333 Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 3 hours ago, Bison44 said: There is the crux of the whole thing......"would have allowed the MLS clubs to control". Why do we need MLS to control things? If we have our own league focused on our players, like MLS is focused on developing american players, why would we let MLS get their sticky little fingers in?? MLS is going to force all the CDN clubs to have reserve teams in their NExtPro league which so far doesnt even sell tickets or have any fans. Does TFC have so much money and so many players they can fund a independent affiliate and a reserve club?? If they have players that need playing time and they can work out a loan deal, go for it, just like leagues all over the world do. It worked out just fine for Pantemis, Sirois and Rea. Maybe if "some" mls teams worked with CPL the entire soccer landscape in canada would be better off. 1 hour ago, RS said: Montreal receives plaudits for cheaping out on having a true reserve side and instead sending a handful of players to CPL every year, while the other two teams get criticized for actually funding more paying jobs for their young players. I actually agree that the better prospects from the MLS teams (the ones not ready for MLS but in need of a step up from academy soccer and MLS NextPro) would be well served getting loaned to the CPL, but what Montreal's doing is essentially giving up on their 6th-best prospect and onward and betting the house on the Reas, Yaos and Siroises of the world. It's worked so far (to a degree) but the late-blooming Montreal-area player would have less of a chance of slipping through the cracks if there's a NextPro team or equivalent side to fall back on. To me, the best option would be for the three MLS teams to do both: field a NextPro team and send their better prospects to the CPL. None of the three do that, even though they easily could. (I'm really trying to avoid this subject, I swear...) I'll go a little off topic to make my point. My brother is a musician who left Montreal when he was 17. He stayed 10-11 years in Toronto and then 22 years in New York. All those years he made a living as a musician and every time he comes to Montreal he complains there's no money circulating in this city. He complains it's a dead city. I can attest to that. I was a video producer here. My brother's son is a video producer in Toronto. He charges 6-8 times what I can dream of charging for comparable work. To paraphrase a Northern Pikes song Montreal ain't big, it just looks that way. CF Montreal had a great season last year. It was one of the best teams in the MLS. It was 25th in average attendance. There are only 28 teams in the league. Vancouver and Toronto didn't make the playoffs. They had better attendance numbers. Montreal ain't big. It just looks that way. The Alouettes keep losing money and taken over by the league. The Expos are gone. If Saputo doesn't split his pennies into twos C F Montreal will go the way of the Expos and the Alouettes. The overwhelming majority of people who go to the Montreal games are immigrants or children of immigrants. The pure laine Quebecois have not tuned into the game. The rabid fans who follow the team are the immigrants and with the provincial government's restrictive immigrant laws that segment of the population ain't gonna grow. If we want 3 teams in the MLS, Saputo can't afford what you suggest and I suspect in a few years it may be the same for Vancouver. Montreal ain't big, it just looks that way. johnyb and costarg 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 1 minute ago, Sal333 said: I'll go a little off topic to make my point. My brother is a musician who left Montreal when he was 17. He stayed 10-11 years in Toronto and then 22 years in New York. All those years he made a living as a musician and every time he comes to Montreal he complains there's no money circulating in this city. He complains it's a dead city. I can attest to that. I was a video producer here. My brother's son is a video producer in Toronto. He charges 6-8 times what I can dream of charging for comparable work. To paraphrase a Northern Pikes song Montreal ain't big, it just looks that way. CF Montreal had a great season last year. It was one of the best teams in the MLS. It was 25th in average attendance. There are only 28 teams in the league. Vancouver and Toronto didn't make the playoffs. They had better attendance numbers. Montreal ain't big. It just looks that way. The Alouettes keep losing money and taken over by the league. The Expos are gone. If Saputo doesn't split his pennies into twos C F Montreal will go the way of the Expos and the Alouettes. The overwhelming majority of people who go to the Montreal games are immigrants or children of immigrants. The pure laine Quebecois have not tuned into the game. The rabid fans who follow the team are the immigrants and with the provincial government's restrictive immigrant laws that segment of the population ain't gonna grow. If we want 3 teams in the MLS, Saputo can't afford what you suggest and I suspect in a few years it may be the same for Vancouver. Montreal ain't big, it just looks that way. If Saputo only made his money in Montreal I’d agree with you, but I have Saputo milk and cheese in my fridge and many millions of other Canadians do as well. I’m not going to feel bad for a billionaire going cheap on CFM especially when he found enough pennies in the couch cushions to purchase a Serie A team as well. So I’ll reiterate, all three teams can easily do what I wrote, they just choose not to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sal333 Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 1 minute ago, RS said: If Saputo only made his money in Montreal I’d agree with you, but I have Saputo milk and cheese in my fridge and many millions of other Canadians do as well. I’m not going to feel bad for a billionaire going cheap on CFM especially when he found enough pennies in the couch cushions to purchase a Serie A team as well. So I’ll reiterate, all three teams can easily do what I wrote, they just choose not to. And you think he got in the position of having you buy his milk and cheese by throwing money away? I'm not telling you to feel bad for him. I simply gave you a reason why he's doing what he's doing. If you want him to continue throwing good money after bad then you should expect to have two Canadian teams in the MLS in the very forseeable future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 8 minutes ago, Sal333 said: And you think he got in the position of having you buy his milk and cheese by throwing money away? I'm not telling you to feel bad for him. I simply gave you a reason why he's doing what he's doing. If you want him to continue throwing good money after bad then you should expect to have two Canadian teams in the MLS in the very forseeable future. He was born into wealth and did literally nothing to become rich. The man paid $25 million to get into MLS and his team is now worth hundreds of millions. He and his team are just fine. jonovision 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InglewoodJack Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 Joey Saputo does not own Saputo. He is the Fredo of the Saputo family. Not to defend the ultra rich too hard, but it isn’t like Saputo inc is this bank account that bankrolls the team like a sovereign fund. He had start up cash, sure, but CFM still has to be run as a business. 9 minutes ago, RS said: He was born into wealth and did literally nothing to become rich. The man paid $25 million to get into MLS and his team is now worth hundreds of millions. He and his team are just fine. That number is hypothetical until someone pays it. IIRC, CF Montreal is the least expensive MLS franchise, and yet is valued higher than Everton. It’s strange. johnyb and Sal333 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonovision Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 28 minutes ago, Sal333 said: I'll go a little off topic to make my point. My brother is a musician who left Montreal when he was 17. He stayed 10-11 years in Toronto and then 22 years in New York. All those years he made a living as a musician and every time he comes to Montreal he complains there's no money circulating in this city. He complains it's a dead city. I can attest to that. I was a video producer here. My brother's son is a video producer in Toronto. He charges 6-8 times what I can dream of charging for comparable work. To paraphrase a Northern Pikes song Montreal ain't big, it just looks that way. CF Montreal had a great season last year. It was one of the best teams in the MLS. It was 25th in average attendance. There are only 28 teams in the league. Vancouver and Toronto didn't make the playoffs. They had better attendance numbers. Montreal ain't big. It just looks that way. The Alouettes keep losing money and taken over by the league. The Expos are gone. If Saputo doesn't split his pennies into twos C F Montreal will go the way of the Expos and the Alouettes. The overwhelming majority of people who go to the Montreal games are immigrants or children of immigrants. The pure laine Quebecois have not tuned into the game. The rabid fans who follow the team are the immigrants and with the provincial government's restrictive immigrant laws that segment of the population ain't gonna grow. If we want 3 teams in the MLS, Saputo can't afford what you suggest and I suspect in a few years it may be the same for Vancouver. Montreal ain't big, it just looks that way. There are plenty of second-rate cities, many of which that can hardly be flush with cash, in MLS with smaller metro populations than Montreal. Austin, Nashville, Denver, Salt Lake City, Kansas City, Cincinnati, Portland, Orlando, and Charlotte are just a few that spring to mind. Like Rudi hints at, beware of any pro sports owner crying poor. narduch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 2 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said: Joey Saputo does not own Saputo. He is the Fredo of the Saputo family. Not to defend the ultra rich too hard, but it isn’t like Saputo inc is this bank account that bankrolls the team like a sovereign fund. He had start up cash, sure, but CFM still has to be run as a business. That's a fair point, but it's not as dire a picture as @Sal333 paints IMO. 2 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said: That number is hypothetical until someone pays it. IIRC, CF Montreal is the least expensive MLS franchise, and yet is valued higher than Everton. It’s strange. The difference between a closed system and pro/rel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PegCityCam Posted February 25, 2023 Author Share Posted February 25, 2023 On the bench. Dominic94 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominic94 Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 He should feature later on PegCityCam 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PegCityCam Posted February 26, 2023 Author Share Posted February 26, 2023 He's on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadenge Posted February 26, 2023 Share Posted February 26, 2023 Coming on 61' Obinna and Fresh Prince of MTL 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh Prince of MTL Posted February 26, 2023 Share Posted February 26, 2023 Thought he looked good tonight. Gave Montreal a good spark in a game they looked quite dull offensively K Edgar, PegCityCam, InglewoodJack and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PegCityCam Posted February 26, 2023 Author Share Posted February 26, 2023 2 minutes ago, Fresh Prince of MTL said: Thought he looked good tonight. Gave Montreal a good spark in a game they looked quite dull offensively Agreed johnyb, K Edgar, Ivan and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InglewoodJack Posted February 26, 2023 Share Posted February 26, 2023 Yeah he looked really cool out there, didn’t look like his first game at all. the rest of the team is a flaming tire fire though. PegCityCam 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sal333 Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 (edited) On 2/25/2023 at 5:04 PM, jonovision said: There are plenty of second-rate cities, many of which that can hardly be flush with cash, in MLS with smaller metro populations than Montreal. Austin, Nashville, Denver, Salt Lake City, Kansas City, Cincinnati, Portland, Orlando, and Charlotte are just a few that spring to mind. Like Rudi hints at, beware of any pro sports owner crying poor. My main point had nothing to do with metro population. It had to do with disposable income. All you have to do is look at the numbers. Last year CF Montreal was one of the best teams on the continent, it had one of the worst attendance numbers in the league. It has had one of the worst attendance numbers for most of it's existence. You have to ask yourself why is that. -demographics is the top answer. In Montreal it's still an immigrant game unlike Toronto and Vancouver and on top of that it draws from immigrants that are on the lower end of the earning scale. And to make matters worse that demographic is not a growing one. This province does not have a stomach for increased immigration. The cities you mentioned are about on par with Montreal when it comes to economics but their populations are not splintered. The pure laine Quebecois - especially the ones with disposable income - couldn't care less about soccer. Jeeze, Canadian gridiron football, after a century of trying, can't make an inroad in this city. Major league Baseball went the way of the dodo bird. Saputo has to be very careful with the team's finances. If he isn't, the team will be moved most likely to the states. Edited February 27, 2023 by Sal333 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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