TFC - 2022 Season Thread

[P-O]

I only have hatred towards TFC, but they are doing it all to get the players they want. 

He'll make more money than Matthews, Marner & Tavares.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

7 minutes ago, jonovision said:

At 11m EUR guaranteed, would he be the highest paid player in MLS?

Think so from the numbers in this article.

https://www.si.com/soccer/2021/05/13/mls-players-union-salaries-vela-chicharito-higuain-zardes

If his contract expires on June 30th, it's probably still a couple of days too soon for a pre-contract to have been signed:

https://www.transfermarkt.com/lorenzo-insigne/profil/spieler/133964

If it does turn out to be official hopefully a deal can be reached with Napoli to get him over to TO for the start of the season.

 

Edited December 28, 2021 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

 

[SoccMan]

16 minutes ago, P-O said:

I only have hatred towards TFC, but they are doing it all to get the players they want. 

He'll make more money than Matthews, Marner & Tavares.

You keeping hating I will enjoy myself, been at this too long to hate , world class player who just a few months ago took apart one of the top national teams in the world in the Euro’s against Belgium’s on his goal against them , and now he might be coming to play for my hometown team still in his prime I’ll take that.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Not sure what to make of this:

...but I guess they could buy out Altidore and sell Soteldo to a Brazilian club.

[Stoppage Time]

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't MLS a salary cap league? I have to wonder how TFC could pay for all of these possible players. I also wonder about spending that big during COVID as there is always a degree of possibility of fan capacity restrictions or even a shut down. Is this good business or risky business?

[Macksam]

5 minutes ago, Stoppage Time said:

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't MLS a salary cap league? I have to wonder how TFC could pay for all of these possible players. I also wonder about spending that big during COVID as there is always a degree of possibility of fan capacity restrictions or even a shut down. Is this good business or risky business?

Teams are allowed three designated players, where they can pay as much as they want. Is it risky business? For MLSE, them keeping the franchise relevant is the most important thing. They'll take the loss knowing the value of the franchise should continue to increase in the near future. Big Media deals are also on the horizon for MLS in 2023. All the teams are going to gun for some big names in 2022 and 2023. Suarez will go to Miami shortly. 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

You are allowed three designated players in MLS that don't count against the cap beyond a relatively low set amount per player (details are complicated). There is a huge Italian-Canadian community in the GTA so going after these guys makes marketing sense for MLSE in a way that signing Pozuelo and Soteldo did not given there aren't too many recent immigrants from Spain and Venezuela.

[Ruffian]

7 minutes ago, Stoppage Time said:

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't MLS a salary cap league? I have to wonder how TFC could pay for all of these possible players. I also wonder about spending that big during COVID as there is always a degree of possibility of fan capacity restrictions or even a shut down. Is this good business or risky business?

Designated player salaries are outside of the cap. COVID is a big concern. I'm surprised they are spending this big with the threat of COVID ruining another season for in stadium support.

[Club Linesman]

20 million per is crazy for a 30 year old forward for 5 years?!  There was something in the Athletic about when players drop off in their productivity and for forwards I believe it was age 28.  
He would be a great get for 2/3 years at even 10 million a season but at this money they need to win MLS cup 3 times in the next 5.  
They must be really concerned that the apathy was  very real last season and not due to the pandemic. 

[SoccMan]

2 minutes ago, Club Linesman said:

20 million per is crazy for a 30 year old forward for 5 years?!  There was something in the Athletic about when players drop off in their productivity and for forwards I believe it was age 28.  
He would be a great get for 2/3 years at even 10 million a season but at this money they need to win MLS cup 3 times in the next 5.  
They must be really concerned that the apathy was  very real last season and not due to the pandemic. 

Ya that’s got to be it for sure the only reason lol . Maybe they just want to win in the end because isn’t that what’s it’s all about in the end . 

[MM3/MM2/MM]

Looks like Insigne move to MLS is official, today Transfermarkt dropped his value from $52.8 million to $38.5m 😎

[SthMelbRed]

1 hour ago, SoccMan said:

Ya that’s got to be it for sure the only reason lol . Maybe they just want to win in the end because isn’t that what’s it’s all about in the end . 

Of course, MLSE is an organisation that has historically put winning at the forefront of everything that they've done, right?

[Obinna]

9 hours ago, Ruffian said:

Designated player salaries are outside of the cap. COVID is a big concern. I'm surprised they are spending this big with the threat of COVID ruining another season for in stadium support.

Jersey sales. 

I bet they'll also jack up ticket sales to make up for any COVID shortfall. 

[narduch]

In smaller news....

 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

9 hours ago, Club Linesman said:

...They must be really concerned that the apathy was  very real last season and not due to the pandemic. 

Italy just won Euro2020. Having two of the players that beat England in the final (grazie mille!) wouldn't do season ticket and merchandise sales any harm so they could recoup a sizable portion of the money from those revenue streams alone.

It has taken MLSE a long time to grasp it but if they are going to do a bloody big deal it's the Italians that have the numbers in a GTA context on the post-WWII immigration demographic that still drives most of the hardcore soccer interest in southern Ontario more than the British Isles.

They probably have also now realized after last season that when they don't do an appropriate bloody big deal in marketing terms (Altidore, Pozuelo and Soteldo are very good players when fully fit but their presence doesn't get too many people excited about the team) and are not playing well it's very easy for a lot of people to drift back to their other soccer allegiances overseas and largely tune them out.

[Unnamed Trialist]

22 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

You are allowed three designated players in MLS that don't count against the cap beyond a relatively low set amount per player (details are complicated). There is a huge Italian-Canadian community in the GTA so going after these guys makes marketing sense for MLSE in a way that signing Pozuelo and Soteldo did not given there aren't too many recent immigrants from Spain and Venezuela.

Even if there were immigrants from Spain, nowhere do you see Spanish fans abroad with that mentality: geez, a guy from my country, I'll go watch him and buy his merch.

I think you'll find plenty of other immigrant communities who are not ghettoized like that. 

IMO it speaks poorly to Italian immigrants in TO, and more so since the vast majority are multi-generation, that signing an Insigne could make business sense because of them.

PS: what is worse is any team in the world having a guy making a salary 100x bigger than some of his teammates, working their butts off on the pitch so he can shine. It's unethical, and a slap in the face to a sport reliant on team tactics and effort. 

Edited December 29, 2021 by Unnamed Trialist

[Stoppage Time]

I just wonder if MLSE has devised a good business plan to make legitimate such a huge payout to one player. Even if Insigne scores 20 goals next season, that would be $1 MILLION per goal in compensation - obscene in my opinion. 

 

[SoccMan]

18 hours ago, SthMelbRed said:

Of course, MLSE is an organisation that has historically put winning at the forefront of everything that they've done, right?

Well they have since TFC and the Raptors won their championships , so yes lately they have .

[SoccMan]

4 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Even if there were immigrants from Spain, nowhere do you see Spanish fans abroad with that mentality: geez, a guy from my country, I'll go watch him and buy his merch.

I think you'll find plenty of other immigrant communities who are not ghettoized like that. 

IMO it speaks poorly to Italian immigrants in TO, and more so since the vast majority are multi-generation, that signing an Insigne could make business sense because of them.

PS: what is worse is any team in the world having a guy making a salary 100x bigger than some of his teammates, working their butts off on the pitch so he can shine. It's unethical, and a slap in the face to a sport reliant on team tactics and effort. 

Lol I’m the ghettoized son of Italian immigrants you must be talking about . First of all in the line of work I do I can tell you that even before the Giovinco signing a lot of the TFC season ticket holders were of Italian background. I work for a company that distributes TFC season tickets and it didn’t take a genius to figure out a person’s ethnic background from the names on the season tickets . Yes Giovinco’s signing attracted even more ethnically Italians on board but there were a lot already with season tickets.  I don’t think it’s speaks poorly of Canadians of Italian background lol , really don’t know where you going with that, a very strange comment. In the end the Italian community has supported TFC in Toronto from day one before Giovinco because a lot of us ghettozied Canadians of Italian background are soccer fans first . 

[narduch]

A lot of GTA Italians were already TFC fans (including myself).

But the Giovinco signing brought out the 'I only watch soccer every 2 years during the World Cup/Euros' Canadian-Italians big time. I don't think this can be denied.

[Unnamed Trialist]

3 hours ago, SoccMan said:

Lol I’m the ghettoized son of Italian immigrants you must be talking about . First of all in the line of work I do I can tell you that even before the Giovinco signing a lot of the TFC season ticket holders were of Italian background. I work for a company that distributes TFC season tickets and it didn’t take a genius to figure out a person’s ethnic background from the names on the season tickets . Yes Giovinco’s signing attracted even more ethnically Italians on board but there were a lot already with season tickets.  I don’t think it’s speaks poorly of Canadians of Italian background lol , really don’t know where you going with that, a very strange comment. In the end the Italian community has supported TFC in Toronto from day one before Giovinco because a lot of us ghettozied Canadians of Italian background are soccer fans first . 

I'm a Canadian fan in Spain. My son, born here and very tied to Canada, is very ho-hum about Canadian soccer. He's not following me like a sheep.

I think it does speak poorly if people who are 3rd and 4th generation immigrants need a player from their background to inspire them to support a local team. Why can't you follow them because you love the game? And then, plenty of soccer fans and lovers have no need at all for such ties, it exposes a flaw. 

In fact if it persists amongst those born and raised in Canada, and then their kids, it defies what the original logic of their soccer passion might be: for example, you are an immigrant from the south in Turin and you go north but when Palermo comes to play Juventus, you are a Palermo fan, if they can stay up in Serie A. But your kids, born and raised in Torino, are Juve fans and they celebrate their wins, and you slowly shift a bit in sympathy with them. And their kids will be Juve fans, lucky you support a team that is a winner.

So that when the family leaves for another continent, they may be more Juve than Palermo fans amongst them. But just to lock on indefinitely, generations later, and still be so weak-charactered to let yourself get sucked in by a team bringing in Insigne? Instead of just supporting that team? I mean, Drogba to Impact, that was pretty big. But because he was a major player, despite how it worked out. I don't like the formula, but it treats fans as more intelligent, don't you think? It was not to capture Ivory Coast immigrants, obviously.

As I say, plenty of immigrants to other countries, from as strong soccer traditions, are not that docile and easy manipulated by such an obvious marketing ploy. 

PS: I'm not a Bayern Munich fan, and want them to lose, Davies playing well. Not a Lille fan, but happy to cheer for them vs. PSG. Was not a Spurs fan when Staltieri played for them, in fact I once went to watch Spurs hoping to see Staltieri and Spurs lose away to Liverpool. 

Edited December 30, 2021 by Unnamed Trialist

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

13 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

...I think it does speak poorly if people who are 3rd and 4th generation immigrants need a player from their background to inspire them to support a local team...

It's difficult to get a sizable portion of the soccer fans that are out there to take anything domestic pro seriously in a Canadian context. There have been a lot of fiascos in the past and the Canadian sports media has othered soccer for generations so the reasons for that can go a lot deeper than simply being a eurosnob.

Big name players help on that by shifting perceptions. If first Beckham and now Insigne will play in this league, maybe it's worth having a look, etc. Don't think the Italian community should be singled for criticism because how you get the most bang for your buck on this really all revolves around who has the numbers on post-WWII immigration more than anything else. 

Pozuelo has never played for Spain and needed a move to Genk in Belgium to establish himself as a top quality player, which involved playing in a league few non-Belgians pay much attention to. I rate the guy very highly when he's fit but he wasn't a signing that was going to help grow TFC's fanbase beyond the core that was already there.

Edited December 30, 2021 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

It's difficult to get a sizable portion of the soccer fans that are out there to take anything domestic pro seriously in a Canadian context. There have been a lot of fiascos in the past and the Canadian sports media has othered soccer for generations so the reasons for that can go a lot deeper than simply being a eurosnob.

Big name players help on that by shifting perceptions. If first Beckham and now Insigne will play in this league, maybe it's worth having a look, etc. Don't think the Italian community should be singled for criticism because how you get the most bang for your buck on this really all revolves around who has the numbers on post-WWII immigration more than anything else. 

Pozuelo has never played for Spain and needed a move to Genk in Belgium to establish himself as a top quality player, which involved playing in a league few non-Belgians pay much attention to. I rate the guy very highly when he's fit but he wasn't a signing that was going to help grow TFC's fanbase beyond the core that was already there.

Sure, but fanbase? Grow it? What for? They have a relatively small stadium, that in normal circumstances has okay attendance. For a city the size of Toronto it has a small venue. Fifth in the league in attendance in 2019, but almost the same as Portland; third overall in 2018 (before Cinci came in). They are not going up to a 30,000 average, which means full. So what: 3000 more a game, a 12% increase?

Merchandising? Also neglibible, a few thousand Insigne shirts, maybe it'll break into the top shirts sold in MLS. No market for TFC outside of Ontario (MLS has minimal interest for merch outside of regional markets).

No one in the rest of the league is going to come out to see Insigne. I saw Pirlo at BC Place, and Villa, and for sure, there were a few dozen, maybe a hundred, with their Pirlo shirts. Also: he was poor. 

BC Place and the Caps: they have never signed in this way, to draw in fans, but they have an entire upper bowl just sitting there, waiting. If the Caps did a big signing (who'd have to be English, I'd say, knowing the demographics), at least they could say it justifies opening the upper bowl, and that is anywhere from a 3 thousand to 30 thousand more fans.

Maybe I am being a snob because I've seen Beckham play for Madrid and for England, but I think the formula is overrated and since Beckham, no other player has that pull. Okay, excepting some of the Mexicans, probably the biggest draw after Beckham has been Vela.

Edited December 30, 2021 by Unnamed Trialist

[Bison44]

Ok, not to grow it then....but say it shrunk from 25K+ down to 15..hard to say with COVID etc, but I think we can all agree fans were staying away in droves with a bottom dwelling team.  Lets say you go from a top 5 draw in MLS and you lose 8-10k a game, those are numbers that will scare even MLSE.  Even in the darkest times TFC was only under 20k a few years. The brass are trying to build a team that will win, but also try and make sure that last season wasnt the start of an erosion of support that has been there since the begining.  And rightly or not, a splash on a big name player is what they are going with.