TFC - 2022 Season Thread

[Stoppage Time]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

BC Place and the Caps: they have never signed in this way, to draw in fans, but they have an entire upper bowl just sitting there, waiting. If the Caps did a big signing (who'd have to be English, I'd say, knowing the demographics), at least they could say it justifies opening the upper bowl, and that is anywhere from a 3 thousand to 30 thousand more fans.

 

Agreed. The Whitecaps have, historically, signed players seen to have an ability to improve the product on the field. If the team is winning consistently, there will be fans on the band wagon. When they lose, interest drops off. Even excitement about the NHL Canucks peaks and ebbs with their performance on the ice, and Vancouver is a hockey town.

Camillo was a VWFC player who lit up the pitch and made soccer fans in Vancouver excited to come out and watch. Alphonso was the same. Neither was signed expressly as a player to fill the stands. I do not know if a guy like Beckham at VWFC would have filled the stands long term at BC Place. Certainly, the walk up attendance would have vastly increased either until the novelty wore off, or like when big signing Mark Messier contributed essentially nothing to the success of the Canucks, Beckham played poorly for a stretch, the Whitecaps began to lose regularly, and fan interest dropped off. We are fickle fans in Vancouver - not yet truly dedicated to the cause and club.

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, Stoppage Time said:

Agreed. The Whitecaps have, historically, signed players seen to have an ability to improve the product on the field. If the team is winning consistently, there will be fans on the band wagon. When they lose, interest drops off. Even excitement about the NHL Canucks peaks and ebbs with their performance on the ice, and Vancouver is a hockey town.

Camillo was a VWFC player who lit up the pitch and made soccer fans in Vancouver excited to come out and watch. Alphonso was the same. Neither was signed expressly as a player to fill the stands. I do not know if a guy like Beckham at VWFC would have filled the stands long term at BC Place. Certainly, the walk up attendance would have vastly increased either until the novelty wore off, or like when big signing Mark Messier contributed essentially nothing to the success of the Canucks, Beckham played poorly for a stretch, the Whitecaps began to lose regularly, and fan interest dropped off. We are fickle fans in Vancouver - not yet truly dedicated to the cause and club.

It is nutty, though, don't you think? BC Place allows the Whitecaps to have a strategy to open the upper bowl, to increase attendance by more than double. They could rival the best in the league for fans. 

But they don't, not in quality on the pitch, not in signings. Ever in fact. They squander it, like they squandered the money from the Davies signing.

Then TFC has a strategy, apparently, to sign for both results and attendance, but they have virtually no margin to grow the fan base. Unless the supposed increase in temp seating at BMO were implemented, which is where I realise I may be totally mistaken. Up to 40,000, 45,000 for the WC? Still half of what BC Place could grow.

Usually stadiums do not sell out, except on rare occasions. This is an odd formula, but if you have 25,000 a good crowd is 23k, and if you have 40 you get 35k. Not everyone wants to go to a full stadium, and not everyone will just buy anywhere to see a game, not for the majority of matches. Meaning: for TFC to justify going for the temp seating arrangement, you don't have to sell out the current setting, just get reasonably close over a certain period. Saying "we should not expand until we have a year of full houses" is a mistaken strategy. 

Edited December 30, 2021 by Unnamed Trialist

[narduch]

9 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

It is nutty, though, don't you think? BC Place allows the Whitecaps to have a strategy to open the upper bowl, to increase attendance by more than double. They could rival the best in the league for fans. 

But they don't, not in quality on the pitch, not in signings. Ever in fact. They squander it, like they squandered the money from the Davies signing.

Then TFC has a strategy, apparently, to sign for both results and attendance, but they have virtually no margin to grow the fan base. Unless the supposed increase in temp seating at BMO were implemented, which is where I realise I may be totally mistaken. Up to 40,000, 45,000 for the WC? Still half of what BC Place could grow.

Usually stadiums do not sell out, except on rare occasions. This is an odd formula, but if you have 25,000 a good crowd is 23k, and if you have 40 you get 35k. Not everyone wants to go to a full stadium, and not everyone will just buy anywhere to see a game, not for the majority of matches. Meaning: for TFC to justify going for the temp seating arrangement, you don't have to sell out the current setting, just get reasonably close over a certain period. Saying "we should not expand until we have a year of full houses" is a mistaken strategy. 

Maybe this is a trial balloon. If this season sells out the World  Cup expansion could be made permanent instead of temporary

[Unnamed Trialist]

25 minutes ago, narduch said:

Maybe this is a trial balloon. If this season sells out the World  Cup expansion could be made permanent instead of temporary

Does anyone have a render or drawing of how BMO would look expanded to 40 or 45 thousand, compared to now?

[narduch]

44 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Does anyone have a render or drawing of how BMO would look expanded to 40 or 45 thousand, compared to now?

I don't think there has been anything of substance on that.

[Mikmacdo]

,look at photos of the grey cup or when the leafs played at bmo

[CanadianSoccerFan]

Anyone else find it extremely annoying how US fans and media on twitter are talking about Insigne like it's their signing?  

[Free kick]

Giovinco avvisa Insigne: “Se vai a Toronto esci dai radar e diventi invisibile” (corrieredellosport.it)

Here is the original article regarding what advice Giovinco is giving to Insigne.   I read it.  I would say i  would concur 100% about what he said about the league, Toronto and living in Canada and that there is nothing i can see that anyone can disagree with.  I would advise anyone who can read Italian, to read it and tell me if there is anything wrong in there.   

But, as is the problem with media in todays world,  this piece got translated and rewritten several times and then "asshole agenda-driven" headline writers got a hold of it and now it has taken on a whole new meaning and context.   Even the Toronto Sun translated it and almost took the headlines from the same A**holes and now it sound like he slagging and discouraging the move.  Now this is the headline that is appearing in most English language page 

Sebastian Giovinco sends warning to Lorenzo Insigne over reported MLS move

Granted,  this is mostly the British media.  But i found some canadian outlets picking up these same headlines

Edited December 31, 2021 by Free kick

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

On 12/30/2021 at 9:52 PM, Unnamed Trialist said:

It is nutty, though, don't you think? BC Place allows the Whitecaps to have a strategy to open the upper bowl, to increase attendance by more than double. They could rival the best in the league for fans...

Perhaps worth bearing in mind that the Whitecaps were unable to build the waterfront SSS that they wanted and were essentially forced to play at BC Place instead. I don't know all the gory details but my understanding is that it's a lot easier for TFC to benefit from gameday revenue streams because they operate BMO Field.

[Unnamed Trialist]

9 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Perhaps worth bearing in mind that the Whitecaps were unable to build the waterfront SSS that they wanted and were essentially forced to play at BC Place instead. I don't know all the gory details but my understanding is that it's a lot easier for TFC to benefit from gameday revenue streams because they operate BMO Field.

You don't really think if the Caps sell 10,000 more tickets they don't see corresponding revenue, how does that figure? 

I seriously do not think controlling revenue from concessions makes up for being able to see tens of thousand more tickets. I don't think TFC is selling more shirts game day at BMO that Caps, or at least don't think the proportions of fans to sales would be that different.

The Whitecaps Waterfront stadium proposal was for 20,000 seats, expandable they said to 30k. Meaning they lowballed it. Since Caps regularly has drawn over that, better to be at BC Place. The real error is to squander that capacity to go from a full lower bowl of 27,000 to start selling part of the upper, up to near 55,000. BMO does not have that margen of improvement and they have been a winning team, and championship team with marquee players.

Even the Sounders started more or less in the lower bowl with part tarped off at then Qwest-Century Link, which gave them first maybe 27,000 capacity; then mored up to around 35,000; then they built that extra end section to increase lower bowl capacity; then when they saw they could get over 40,000 regularly they expanded into the upper bowls as demand increased enough to justify it. I think they designate a few matches a year to go into the upper bowl, but if the year goes well their demand rises and they open it up more regularly. So they can have stretches up around 45,000. Winning is obviously what drives this.

Edited January 2, 2022 by Unnamed Trialist

[Stoppage Time]

27 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Even the Sounders started more or less in the lower bowl with part tarped off at then Qwest-Century Link, which gave them first maybe 27,000 capacity; then mored up to around 35,000; then they built that extra end section to increase lower bowl capacity; then when they saw they could get over 40,000 regularly they expanded into the upper bowls as demand increased enough to justify it. I think they designate a few matches a year to go into the upper bowl, but if the year goes well their demand rises and they open it up more regularly. So they can have stretches up around 45,000. Winning is obviously what drives this.

And there you have it! The Sounders win regularly including championships. The Whitecaps do not. It is simple logic. If VWFC wins, then fans will attend in larger numbers.

[Unnamed Trialist]

I'm starting to see those Belotti rumours more frequently in the press here, so is that about right? Both Insigne and Belotti to TFC?

[Greatest Cockney Rip Off]

1 minute ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I'm starting to see those Belotti rumours more frequently in the press here, so is that about right? Both Insigne and Belotti to TFC?

I think every Italian and his dog is currently being linked to TFC. On top of those two, TFC have been linked with Criscito, Romangoli and Destro. Hard to tell how much is legitimate and how much is being pushed by agents. 

[toontownman]

Also linked with Emilio Largo, Luca Brasi, Daniel LaRusso, Silvio Berlusconi. 

Really we just need to be thinking about the next generation. We already have the spawn of Bradley and Giovinco locked in. 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

15 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I'm starting to see those Belotti rumours more frequently in the press here, so is that about right? Both Insigne and Belotti to TFC?

Domenico Criscito of Genoa also gets mentioned quite a bit but he's a lot older and a defender so I guess may not necessarily have to be a DP signing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domenico_Criscito

There's also the possibility that they have been going after a few players to make sure they wind up with somebody marketable in Woodbridge terms rather than putting all their eggs in one basket with Insigne.

[El Hombre]

2 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Domenico Criscito of Genoa also gets mentioned quite a bit but he's a lot older and a defender so I guess may not necessarily have to be a DP signing.

This is really where they should be concentrating unless the plan is to win 6-5 every night.

[Unnamed Trialist]

Unless TFC is feeding the rumours to keep the Italian reps off guard, and keep prices down (which would be smart), it could also be just a feeding frenzy from the agents themselves. Any transfer in winter is a nice off-season commission they see few of. 

It is quite positive to see players, and agents, think highly of [the fat wallet and big spender poses of] TFC.

Edited January 4, 2022 by Unnamed Trialist

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Something to never hesitate to mention to hockey fans, if/when the contract is signed and this is confirmed as being true:

 

[rkomar]

2 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Something to never hesitate to mention to hockey fans, if/when the contract is signed and this is confirmed as being true:

 

Even worse, they are getting paid with hockey money.  (Last I checked over ten years ago, the Leafs were generating over $100,000,000 in _profit_ every year)

[Unnamed Trialist]

Insigne confirmed. 

[Free kick]

Belotti (Torino) is 28 yrs old.   He also was on the squad that won the Euros.  At 28 he is still in his prime.  And his scoring rate is equal or better than Insigne.

Edited January 5, 2022 by Free kick

[Free kick]

7 hours ago, rkomar said:

Even worse, they are getting paid with hockey money.  (Last I checked over ten years ago, the Leafs were generating over $100,000,000 in _profit_ every year)

I dont believe that that the parent organization operates that way.  Thats not how larger businesses operate.  By that i mean whereby the revenues are shared or transferred from one professional club to another.  I am fairly confident in my believe that each of the four organization’s cover their costs with with their own revenues.   Sure there are areas where cost sharing and economies of scale can be achieved (eg.:  front office staff, marketing, customer services etc). But other than that, the investment in Insigne is based on the fact that benefits will accrue to TFC.  And because TFC (not MLSE) can afford or justify the investment.
 

There has always been that myth here that TFC beenfits (and vice versa) from the other pro teams that MLSE owns, but in reality if the attendance was consisitently bad, then they wouldnt be forking out this kind money.

Edited January 5, 2022 by Free kick

[SthMelbRed]

2 minutes ago, Free kick said:

I dont believe that that the parent organization operates that way.  Thats not how larger businesses operate.  By that i mean whereby the revenues are shared or transferred from one professional club to another.  I am fairly confident in my believe that each of the four organization’s cover their costs with with their own revenues.   Sure there are areas where cost sharing and economies of scale can be achieved (eg.:  front office staff, marketing, customer services etc). But other than that, the investment in Insigne is based on the fact that benefits will accrue to TFC.  And because TFC (not MLSE) can afford it.
 

There has always been that myth here that TFC beenfits (and vice versa) from the other pro teams that MLSE owns, but in reality if the attendance was consisitently bad, then they wouldnt be forking out this kind money.

If TFC was a stand-alone organisation, there's zero chance that their salary budget would anywhere close to where it's been since the Defoe signing.

[Free kick]

8 minutes ago, SthMelbRed said:

If TFC was a stand-alone organisation, there's zero chance that their salary budget would anywhere close to where it's been since the Defoe signing.

I say yes, it would.   Or most of it would.  That is provided that you have the same revenues from attendance and other sources under the single owner scenario.  
 

there is no way that the NBA or NHL would allow any owner to siphon revenues to other organizations in other leagues within an ownership group.

These are 5 distinct assets. 

Edited January 5, 2022 by Free kick

[SthMelbRed]

30 minutes ago, Free kick said:

I say yes, it would.   Or most of it would.  That is provided that you have the same revenues from attendance and other sources under the single owner scenario.  
 

there is no way that the NBA or NHL would allow any owner to siphon revenues to other organizations in other leagues within an ownership group.

These are 5 distinct assets. 

1. The NBA and NHL have fuck all to say about what MLSE does with it's own money.

2. TFC does not have the independent revenue streams to cover $20m+ in player salaries alone.