king1010 Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 12 hours ago, SthMelbRed said: Rollins and all his imaginary mates, I guess. He just posts things to get a reaction. Always playing devils advocate. El Diego 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Diego Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 1 minute ago, king1010 said: He just posts things to get a reaction. Always playing devils advocate idiot. Fixed costarg, Cheeta, Admiral Murray and 2 others 1 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InglewoodJack Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 13 hours ago, Stryker911 said: Who in Canada thinks he will be better than Davies? At some points around the time he got transferred to Watford, I heard a few people call him the next Yaya Toure. I guess that would make him better than Davies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frmr Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 I mean I'm sure there are some people in Canada who think he can be better than Davies, so it's really not an outrageous statement. Personally I think he has world class potential. The chances that he reaches that full potential is probably slim, but I think we can all agree that he has a few levels left in him. I will be happy if he becomes a good Premier League level midfielder, I'll be over the moon if turns out to be world class. Obinna, PegCityCam, Ottawafan and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Diego Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 3 minutes ago, frmr said: I mean I'm sure there are some people in Canada who think he can be better than Davies, so it's really not an outrageous statement. Personally I think he has world class potential. The chances that he reaches that full potential is probably slim, but I think we can all agree that he has a few levels left in him. I will be happy if he becomes a good Premier League level midfielder, I'll be over the moon if turns out to be world class. The reason the statement is insane is because even if Kone becomes world class (which, despite all his potential, he has basically zero chance of becoming), he won't necessarily be better than Davies. Before anyone gets mad at me, me saying that Kone will almost certainly not become world class is not a dig at him. Ruffian, PegCityCam and Cheeta 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 I like Kone and I love his potential. I think a comparison with Davies is difficult, because Kone plays in the middle and Davies is a wide player. Davies is world class because he has elite speed and take-on ability. There is nothing Kone does that is elite, moreso he checks off a lot of boxes of things he is good at that should hopefully culumate to him being a fantastic player. Strong, fast, technical, eye for goal, short passing, long passing, ball control...so a little bit of everything, without any one thing being world class or elite, if that makes sense. GasPed, Corazon, Ottawafan and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottawafan Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 If he becomes better than Davies wouldn't that make him the best player in CONCACAF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InglewoodJack Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 27 minutes ago, Ottawafan said: If he becomes better than Davies wouldn't that make him the best player in CONCACAF? It would make him one of the best players in the world considering his position. If Kone ends up better than Davies, he probably ends up not too far off from guys like KDB. PegCityCam 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
costarg Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 1 hour ago, king1010 said: He just posts things to get a reaction. Always playing devils advocate. Ya, devils advocate is giving him way to much credit. Devils advocate can sometimes give a different perspective or angle on things. Rollins has proved time and again he's just a jerk and idiot. El Diego 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyslexic nam Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 I love Kone and think he will be a CMNT mainstay that anchors our midfield for years to come. But lets pump the brakes a bit. Agreed that he has all the physical tools needed and can be a literal game-changer on a good day, but there are games where is isn't impactful, isn't consistently dominating at Championship level, and has an average FotMob rating of 6.99. That doesn't invite immediate comparisons in terms of relative quality to one of the best LBs in the world - who is being actively chased by Real Madrid. Kone can be an amazing player for us without fulfilling that sort of crazy expectation. Atlantic, Obinna, GasPed and 6 others 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frmr Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 1 hour ago, El Diego said: The reason the statement is insane is because even if Kone becomes world class (which, despite all his potential, he has basically zero chance of becoming), he won't necessarily be better than Davies. Before anyone gets mad at me, me saying that Kone will almost certainly not become world class is not a dig at him. Yeah, I'm not saying I agree with the fact that he could be better than Davies (though anything is possible), but the fact that Rollins said "some people in Canada think this", is technically true, because I guarantee you there are in fact people in Canada who do think that. I get that everyone hates the guy, but technically it's a completely reasonable statement. He's not saying that he thinks it, he's saying that some people do. Also, he absolutely has a chance at being world class. I agree it's slim but it's definitely not zero, or even virtually zero. He 100% has the tools and he's not close to his peak yet. The Real Marc, PegCityCam and Bigandy 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PegCityCam Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 So what are we actually talking about when we say "world class"? At what point does one reach this level? When he not only starts, but thrives on an elite team? An elite team being a top five league team which consistently battles for league titles, or top 3 to 5 finishes at the very least. One that regularly performs in the CL and more than likely makes it through to the round of 16 and beyond. Can a guy who thrives on anything less than an elite team still be considered world class? Have I even defined an elite team correctly? I'm genuinely curious what the thoughts are on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frmr Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 1 hour ago, PegCityCam said: So what are we actually talking about when we say "world class"? At what point does one reach this level? When he not only starts, but thrives on an elite team? An elite team being a top five league team which consistently battles for league titles, or top 3 to 5 finishes at the very least. One that regularly performs in the CL and more than likely makes it through to the round of 16 and beyond. Can a guy who thrives on anything less than an elite team still be considered world class? Have I even defined an elite team correctly? I'm genuinely curious what the thoughts are on this. Yeah it's obviously a subjective term but I would say that's roughly accurate. I would call someone world class if they're around the top 5 or 10 players in their position. Someone who could walk into almost any team in the world. PegCityCam 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GasPed Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 2 hours ago, frmr said: Yeah it's obviously a subjective term but I would say that's roughly accurate. I would call someone world class if they're around the top 5 or 10 players in their position. Someone who could walk into almost any team in the world. Well, that's a high bar - needless to say then we've probably only had one world class player ever, and may never have another one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadenge Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 At 16 Davies was starring for Canada at the GC where he won the golden boot and young player award. Played for Bayern at 18. Won almost every club trophy. FIFA best XI. Kone's journey in football started about 4 yrs later at about 19/20 and I'm not sure he can catch up. He is special though. His skills are silky smooth/effortless. He can breeze through defenders like they are pylons. Great size,strength & field vision. The only thing holding him back from being a great player is maintaing his intensity for the entire 90 mins. He completed only his 2nd full pro season at the end of Dec. The championship has toughened him up re the physical part of the game. He's ready for his next move. Ruffian, PegCityCam, CanadaFan123 and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InglewoodJack Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 9 hours ago, PegCityCam said: So what are we actually talking about when we say "world class"? At what point does one reach this level? When he not only starts, but thrives on an elite team? An elite team being a top five league team which consistently battles for league titles, or top 3 to 5 finishes at the very least. One that regularly performs in the CL and more than likely makes it through to the round of 16 and beyond. Can a guy who thrives on anything less than an elite team still be considered world class? Have I even defined an elite team correctly? I'm genuinely curious what the thoughts are on this. Depends on the context we’re talking about. To me world class is the top 5 or so players at any given position. Davies is world class, but David is not, at least yet. I think when we talk about soccer from a Canadian perspective though, you could use world class to refer to players who are good enough to leave Canada. If I was saying “Nathan Saliba has the potential to be a world class player” I don’t think he’ll be a best XI candidate, rather that I think he has the potential to play in a good European league. I’d usually use this context talking casually about our players, otherwise I think world class is really just the top of the crop. PegCityCam and WestHamCanadianinOxford 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestHamCanadianinOxford Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 (edited) 3 hours ago, Kadenge said: At 16 Davies was starring for Canada at the GC where he won the golden boot and young player award. Played for Bayern at 18. Won almost every club trophy. FIFA best XI. Kone's journey in football started about 4 yrs later at about 19/20 and I'm not sure he can catch up. He is special though. His skills are silky smooth/effortless. He can breeze through defenders like they are pylons. Great size,strength & field vision. The only thing holding him back from being a great player is maintaing his intensity for the entire 90 mins. He completed only his 2nd full pro season at the end of Dec. The championship has toughened him up re the physical part of the game. He's ready for his next move. I agree with most of that. I would not, however, say he is ready/needs to move right now (even though I don't love Watford's setup). In order to get a good transfer - where he will both go up a level and play regularly - players need to be right at the top of the Championship. Bowen and Antonio are ones I know well, but also Ollie Watkins and going back a bit - Pickford. Even recently and not up as high a level, Gyokeres scored 21 goals and added a number of assists in his last year at Coventry before getting a move to Portugal. (Where he looks great to be fair.) Unless a really big club buys him on potential (which he might be a little old for) he needs to be at the top of the league, not just show flashes of that. I just want him to continue to play regularly. Edited February 15 by WestHamCanadianinOxford Ivan and PegCityCam 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadenge Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 51 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said: I agree with most of that. I would not, however, say he is ready/needs to move right now (even though I don't love Watford's setup). In order to get a good transfer - where he will both go up a level and play regularly - players need to be right at the top of the Championship. Bowen and Antonio are ones I know well, but also Ollie Watkins and going back a bit - Pickford. Even recently and not up as high a level, Gyokeres scored 21 goals and added a number of assists in his last year at Coventry before getting a move to Portugal. (Where he looks great to be fair.) Unless a really big club buys him on potential (which he might be a little old for) he needs to be at the top of the league, not just show flashes of that. I just want him to continue to play regularly. I admit I don't watch much Championship league games other than Watford and Preston, but Watford don't have much quality or technical players where Kone can raise the level of his game. He certainly can improve with more experience but given his age its all about the rate of improvement, so he has to be in the best environment for that to happen. Perhaps if he was with one of the top 4/5 teams in the league it would be different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestHamCanadianinOxford Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 53 minutes ago, Kadenge said: I admit I don't watch much Championship league games other than Watford and Preston, but Watford don't have much quality or technical players where Kone can raise the level of his game. He certainly can improve with more experience but given his age its all about the rate of improvement, so he has to be in the best environment for that to happen. Perhaps if he was with one of the top 4/5 teams in the league it would be different. Watford have plenty of skilled players, they just have mismanaged a lot of them in the past. Their model has been buying (and often overpaying ) too many skilled players in hope of shifting them on, I guess. Martins, Asprilla, Delle-Bashiru, currently. They just brought in Denis. Chakvetadze was one of the most skilled kids in the world at one point (pre a big injury a bit before Jonathan David joined him at Gent.) Jeremy Ngakia was a very skilled youth right back at West Ham before Watford offered him first team money to come and hardly play. Similar story with a kid named Domingos Quina, who has been gone for a while. Skill around him is not the problem at Watford. Playing like a team has been. The new manager has been better than I thought he might be and has established some roles and some consistency. As I said I don't love Watford's model but Kone has to be better all the time to grab a move that will really benefit him. Just my two cents. kacbru, Kadenge and jhoops__ 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PegCityCam Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 21 hours ago, frmr said: Yeah it's obviously a subjective term but I would say that's roughly accurate. I would call someone world class if they're around the top 5 or 10 players in their position. Someone who could walk into almost any team in the world. So basically top 50 to 100 players on the planet at any one time. This makes sense to me and seems to be the consensus as far as how the general global footballing views "world class". But that's just from what I've observed. 19 hours ago, GasPed said: Well, that's a high bar - needless to say then we've probably only had one world class player ever, and may never have another one... Should it not be a high bar to be considered world class? As far as having another one, I have no doubt. Nobody would have dreamt we'd have another Canadian as good as two time MVP Steve Nash, the classiest of world class ballers, but we now have Shai in MVP talks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beaver 2.0 Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 The Davies v. Kone comparison is more interesting, perhaps, if you ask who will be the more rounded footballer overall? "World class" seems a banal, kind of silly term, no? Will peak Kone be a better all round footballer than peak Davies? Davies has the pace and the ability to take on defenders (i.e. mostly pace, with good technique and athleticism), but does Kone not have a lot more high quality tools in his kit? None of them elite, no, but just all around better? Maybe this is also a banal comparison. The lads play very different roles and positions. masster, costarg and PegCityCam 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beaver 2.0 Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 14 hours ago, PegCityCam said: So basically top 50 to 100 players on the planet at any one time. This makes sense to me and seems to be the consensus as far as how the general global footballing views "world class". But that's just from what I've observed. Should it not be a high bar to be considered world class? As far as having another one, I have no doubt. Nobody would have dreamt we'd have another Canadian as good as two time MVP Steve Nash, the classiest of world class ballers, but we now have Shai in MVP talks. We create world class hockey players all the time. If you have the right development path, then you can increase your odds of creating multiple world class players in football, too. Our development path is better than it was 10 years ago, but it is far from "good", let alone "world class". Which means that unearthing elite footballers in this country feels more akin to winning the lottery. PegCityCam, dyslexic nam and GasPed 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordan Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 50th appearance this morning dyslexic nam, The Beaver 2.0, Trois Reds and 7 others 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastPros Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 (edited) Subbed out at 27th min. Part of an early double substitution. Never a good look Edited February 24 by PastPros narduch and Corazon 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinceA Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 5 minutes ago, PastPros said: Subbed out at 27th min. Part of an early double substitution. Never a good look Has he been that poor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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