Gold cup player by player report card!

[spitfire]

Dare I suggest a player by player report card of overall performance in the gold cup and potential going forward... just looking to distract from the result and try to look forward. May get messy but thought I’d try my hand at starting a topic...

Suggested Restrictions

1. rating out of 10
2. 1 sentence comment no rants per player 
3. next cycle yes or no
4. Try to be positive and deal in facts. Try. 

Before anyone says I won’t give an opinion on anyone else I’m biased lol .

My opinion on LM was he did well when he came on. Looked lively and made an impact. Clearly I would have liked him to play more but he is young and very happy to be involved in his first int tournament  for Canada. I spoke to him today and he was disappointed and felt he could have made a difference. But understands his role and is happy to keep working hard and try to get in the team.  He’s in for the long game. .

Liam is hoping to join LFC first team on their USA tour in a few weeks. Will know in the next week or so. 

 

[BrennanFan]

Cornelius and Henry did better than I expected.  They were okay together.  

David of course was impressive and will be one of the best Canadian players of all time. 

Arfield was Mr. Dependable as usual.

Cavallini was good but he needs multiple chances in order to score. He is great but not deadly clinical. Mid table Mexico is his ceiling I think.

Other players had some moments but nobody else really distinguished themselves. 

Overall the team gets a resounding Fail from me. Making it to the quarters in a 16 team Gold Cup is no accomplishment. Losing the way they did is another black mark in Canadian soccer history.

Herdman: from his squad selections, overlooking our veteran defenders, penchant for playing guys out of position, his untimely and naive comments about the semi final, his pathetic substitutions, he displayed one of the poorest attempts at coaching a Canada Gold Cup squad that I have ever seen. Just shameful in every way. Truly fucking pathetic.

[Floortom]

I won’t grade everyone but Osorio, David, Arfield were my best three.

Henry and Cornelius were surprisingly solid.

Davies had his moments but he just doesn’t have the defensive accumen yet.

wont bother calling anyone out but we struggled where I anticipated we would.

and yes this has to be nothing but a fail on Herdman’s resume - it was his first test and he didn’t show well IMO. Odd selections and substitutions.

Edited June 30, 2019 by Floortom

[lamptern]

20 minutes ago, BrennanFan said:

Cornelius and Henry did better than I expected.  They were okay together.  

David of course was impressive and will be one of the best Canadian players of all time. 

Arfield was Mr. Dependable as usual.

Cavallini was good but he needs multiple chances in order to score. He is great but not deadly clinical. Mid table Mexico is his ceiling I think.

Other players had some moments but nobody else really distinguished themselves. 

Overall the team gets a resounding Fail from me. Making it to the quarters in a 16 team Gold Cup is no accomplishment. Losing the way they did is another black mark in Canadian soccer history.

Herdman: from his squad selections, overlooking our veteran defenders, penchant for playing guys out of position, his untimely and naive comments about the semi final, his pathetic substitutions, he displayed one of the poorest attempts at coaching a Canada Gold Cup squad that I have ever seen. Just shameful in every way. Truly ******* pathetic.

Your last paragraph made me concern a lot about CMNT's future.

Players can come and go, learn and making progress. And we could have second David or third David appear if we are lucky in coming years.

BUT, 

Can this cocky English coach make improvement in those aspects? 

If not, it will be really pathetic till 2026.

[Stryker911]

I was going to grade everyone, but that would take too long. Standouts for me would be David, Cavallini, Osorio, and Cornelius.

Borjan had nothing to do several games, but in reality between him and Godinho cost us the tournament.

Given that Arfield and Hoilett play at pretty well the highest club level on our team I found them underwhelming. It's annoying how everytime we are coming in down the wing Arfield has both hands out demanding the ball. If it doesnt go to him he turns in disgust and if it does he smashes it into the defender.

Hopefully the experiment of playing people out of position has come to an end. Davies is our best player, put him in his proper position. Same with Larin. He is a good backup, he was a top scorer in MLS, now that he can get some service he might actually be decent 

Herdman made numerous mistakes. However, he did assemble one of the best teams we have ever had and has another top player committed to us. So hopefully he learned some lessons and can implement that during WCQ.

[Obinna]

Borjan 7

Cornelius 8.5

Henry 8

Godinho 6

Piette 7.5

Hutchinson 8

Arfield 8

Osorio 8.5

Hoilett 7.5

Kaye 7

Davies 7.5

David 9

Cavallini 8.5

ZBG 6.5

Teibert 7

Johnson, Larin, Miller, Millar didn't play enough to give a meaningful rating.

[Bertuzzi44]

I'll do the players that played significant roles:

GK    Milan Borjan    6.5 - Big blunder in elimination game. Some big saves versus Martinique though.
DF    Zachary Brault-Guillard    6 - Shakey. Needs more experience I think, at both club and NT level.
DF    Derek Cornelius  7 - I know he was named to the tournament XI and was solid defensively, but his passing needs a lot of work
DF    Doneil Henry    7.5 - I thought he was solid and stronger than Cornelius. Not really at fault for any of the goals except Guardado's second.
DF    Marcus Godinho    5.5 - Decent going forward, but questionable defensively. Very costly blunders versus Haiti.
MF    Samuel Piette    7 - As expected, good destroyer playing in front of the back 4. Very nice pass to David vs Martinique though. Hope he can add more range of passing to his game
MF    Scott Arfield (captain)   8.5 - Great in the middle of the park. Thinks the game quickly and has as high work rate. Dangerous in the final third.
MF    Junior Hoilett   6.5  - I know he scored a couple goals, but was poor against Martinique and tried to do too much against Haiti. Showed much better in 2017.
MF    Alphonso Davies    8 - So dangerous going forward, but was deployed as an LB for 2 matches, and had some defensive blunders
MF    Atiba Hutchinson    8 - I thought Hutch played very well, in whatever role he was asked to fill. Calm and composed. 
MF    Mark-Anthony Kaye   7 - Was either out of position or not match fit (it seems). When he was in the middle of the park, he was excellent. 
MF    Jonathan Osorio    8 - I am not a huge Oso fan, but he played very well. Also seems to have a knack for shooting and had some excellent efforts
FW    Lucas Cavallini   9 - Centre forward scored goals. Didn't waste many chances. Good work rate. Can't ask for much more.
FW    Jonathan David  9 - A clinical finisher and it showed. Would still love to see him in a CAM role with Canada. Very exciting talent lived up to the hype.

[Northvansteve]

Borjan - one major brain cramp per game. This time, it was a killer. Time for a new number one keeper (Crepeau).

Godinho - you can see what they like in him. He is creative in the final third - almost like another forward. But seriously lacks judgment on defense. And since he's a defender, that's a pretty serious weakness.

Brault-Guillard - the future at RB. 

Henry - has quietly become a very very good centre D. We should start an appreciation thread for how good this guy is.

Cornelius - lots of promise; an example of why more forwards should be converted to defense; but why was he taking a crucial free kick toward the end of that Haiti game?

Piette - solid but will be too slow against the better teams

Arfield - sorry we wasted peak Arfield; this guy is our midfield general; hope he remains good when we are in WC qualifying

Osorio - quietly a critical piece of our midfield who creates space 

Atiba - legend; looked so good finally playing with guys who were at his level

Kaye - his physical presence showed early but was brought on too late vs Haiti to make a difference; needs to be part of the midfield rotation; natural successor to Atiba

Davies: criminally misused by Herdman; should always be starting up front; was not great at LB but would learn the position if Bayern put him there; remember that Atiba started as a RB and so have other greats

Hoilett: very disappointing vs Haiti; old bad habits came out; wasteful, indecisive, turnover machine; always looking for the shot instead of passing

David: fantastic; this guy is a machine; biggest tactical mistake Herdman made in the second half vs Haiti was taking out Cavallini because this forced David to forward and he was surrounded by 3 defenders; needed to bring David back into centre mid where he would drive our offense; this guy can do it all and will be our centre mid star; huge advantage to have a guy who can play striker, winger or centre mid; so so impressed by David

Millar: great speed and moves but needs experience in creating offense in the final third once he beats a defender; expect him to supplant Hoilett as the starter

Cavallini: sorry but for as good as he was in the earlier games he was incredibly wasteful in the Haiti game: he repeatedly dribbled into traffic and turned over the ball; very poor decision-making

Missing: Adekugbe (LB starter going forward), Larin (needs his confidence back), James (what happened with him?), Okello/Verhoeven/Nelson/Borges (future stars), Eustaquiao (future starter)

Edited July 1, 2019 by Northvansteve

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, Northvansteve said:

Borjan - one major brain cramp per game. This time, it was a killer. Time for a new number one keeper (Crepeau).

Godinho - you can see what they like in him. He is creative in the final third - almost like another forward. But seriously lacks judgment on defense. And since he's a defender, that's a pretty serious weakness.

Brault-Guillard - the future at RB. 

Henry - has quietly become a very very good centre D. We should start an appreciation thread for how good this guy is.

Cornelius - lots of promise; an example of why more forwards should be converted to defense; but why was he taking a crucial free kick toward the end of that Haiti game?

Piette - solid but will be too slow against the better teams

Arfield - sorry we wasted peak Arfield; this guy is our midfield general; hope he remains good when we are in WC qualifying

Osorio - quietly a critical piece of our midfield who creates space 

Atiba - legend; looked so good finally playing with guys who were at his level

Kaye - his physical presence showed early but was brought on too late vs Haiti to make a difference; needs to be part of the midfield rotation; natural successor to Atiba

Davies: criminally misused by Herdman; should always be starting up front; was not great at LB but would learn the position if Bayern put him there; remember that Atiba started as a RB and so have other greats

Hoilett: very disappointing vs Haiti; old bad habits came out; wasteful, indecisive, turnover machine; always looking for the shot instead of passing

David: fantastic; this guy is a machine; biggest tactical mistake Herdman made in the second half vs Haiti was taking out Cavallini because this forced David to forward and he was surrounded by 3 defenders; needed to bring David back into centre mid where he would drive our offense; this guy can do it all and will be our centre mid star; huge advantage to have a guy who can play striker, winger or centre mid; so so impressed by David

Millar: great speed and moves but needs experience in creating offense in the final third once he beats a defender; expect him to supplant Hoilett as the starter

Cavallini: sorry but for as good as he was in the earlier games he was incredibly wasteful in the Haiti game: he repeatedly dribbled into traffic and turned over the ball; very poor decision-making

Missing: Adekugbe (LB starter going forward), Larin (needs his confidence back), James (what happened with him?), Okello/Verhoeven/Nelson/Borges (future stars), Eustaquiao (future starter)

He did?

[Shortdutchcanuck]

14 hours ago, BrennanFan said:

Herdman: from his squad selections, overlooking our veteran defenders, penchant for playing guys out of position, his untimely and naive comments about the semi final, his pathetic substitutions, he displayed one of the poorest attempts at coaching a Canada Gold Cup squad that I have ever seen. Just shameful in every way. Truly ******* pathetic.

I actually thought Herdman's squad selections and lineups were some of the less debated I've ever seen on here with Canadian coaches.  Other than missing Adekugbe at left back due to injury and not calling Cordova (I would have brought him over Will Johnson) the roster was what most on here thought it should be.  The other points of debate: squad rotation, Phonzie at left back, do you play your best lineup against Mexico, were difficult decisionsthat were widely debated on here and probably more or less 50-50 between supporters.

I just think Herdman was naive going into second half and some individual moments of bad defending really cost us.  Unfortunately this overshadows a ton of positives from this tournament. 

Personally I was too high on this team's chances in this tournament given the lack of quality opponents in the last year.  Then following the loss I was much too low, and very angry.

In every sport you see it where talented young teams have their first big test and fail it, then maybe fail again a few more times before they learn what it truly takes to win high-pressure games.  

The one thing that concerns me is rumours of Herdman having a long contract that will make it difficult to fire him.  We can still improve under Herdman but I'm not sure he can take us to this group's full potential.

[narduch]

5 minutes ago, Shortdutchcanuck said:

The one thing that concerns me is rumours of Herdman having a long contract that will make it difficult to fire him. 

Apparently $10 million!

Fucking unbelievable.

[Gian-Luca]

It might be a long contract, but I find the rumour of a $10 million salary hard to believe........where would the CSA get that money from?

[narduch]

Slightly more then $1 million per year gets you to $10 million.

I still think we're fucked either way. CSA is so tone deaf I'm pretty sure they aren't even thinking replacement.

[gator]

38 minutes ago, narduch said:

Slightly more then $1 million per year gets you to $10 million.

I still think we're ****** either way. CSA is so tone deaf I'm pretty sure they aren't even thinking replacement.

The way the CSA replaced OZ and appointed Herdman without even having an open hiring process tells me they will stick with him no matter what and if things continue to trend downward with this coach things will get real ugly between the CSA and hard core supporters! 

[Shortdutchcanuck]

Borjan - the errors will always be there as well as the monster saves (see Martinique game).  I'd like to see Crepeau get a shot against Cuba in fall but Borjan gets to balls none of our other keepers would and is still our #1 going forward.

Henry - very solid, quiet (in a good way) tournament and I think he's very capable of anchoring our backline for a long time.  Can go toe to toe with anyone physically and made consistently solid decisions outside of the Martinique giveaway.

Cornelius - pleasant surprise for me given a few struggles with Caps, definitely has the composure to be a steady figure for us back there

Davies - regardless of not liking him at LB, he needs to make that play defensively and he knew it right away kicking the post.  No goals but we saw both the potential with breathtaking runs and nice setups and also what he needs to clean up - still some reliance on overdribbling and poor crosses.  He still has so much more to offer if he can reach even close to his potential.  Even playing partly at LB I expected a little more.

Godinho - needs a good long solid stretch at club before I'd start him again.  I didn't like Borjan's reaction but I also didn't like Godinho throwing uo his hands at Borjan.  The pass was playable but so casual and naive.  Gifted going forward, capable of defending, needs to prove reliability.

ZBG - hoped to see him against Haiti, solid defender with speed to overlap, needs to refine his touch in tight areas and crossing ability as he will get lots of opportunities.  My RB of choice going forward.

Miller - looked promising in cameo appearance

Piette - the usual, and also a better passer than we give  him credit for, his lack of speed as others have noted gets exposed against highly athletic teams.  I always want him on my team but he might find starts few and far between once Eustaquio gets here.

Hutch - better at DM than CB obviously, long, intelligent, composed, but you can see the cracks starting to show.  Might be the end of a brilliant, underrated career.  Gutted for him above all.

Kaye - still needs refinement but covers so much ground and sees the field so well.  Not as good a tournament as I expected, maybe due to injury and playing LB, but saw enough flashes.  Would love to see him go to Europe.

Arfield - our midfield engine who controlled tempo and buildup, not as big an offensive threat as I had hoped given Rangers form, hopefully no signs of decline in coming WCQ run.

Osorio - very composed in midfield and adept at moving the ball under pressure, a lot of us thought he was odd man out in midfield and he proved he belongs on field

Hoilett - disappointed in his play, other than a few flashes I thought he made poor decisions and didn't look particularly engaged.  Opening the door forr Davies and Millar to take his wing minutes.

Johnson - fine, good depth option, probably coming to the end of his callups, always a good injury cover

David - hard to imagine a Canadian scoring goals this clinically at any age.  Might end up being more valuable to this team than Davies.  Positioning and movement fantastic.  Interesting to see what position he slots into longterm.

Cavallini - a beast but struggled a bit against Haiti.  Wears defenders down with his physical presence.  Needs good service and not quite as clinical as David.  Wears his heart on his sleeve and we will always be secretly wondering if something has pissed him off enough to leave the team for good

Larin - some good holdup but not especially threatening, played out of position on wing,  seriously in need of a confidence boost

Millar - looked lively and dangerous as we have come to expect, need to find more minutes for him going forward

Going forward: need to look at Adekugbe and Cordova for LB position as well as James at CB

I'd like to see a game with David in MF, Cav up front, Davies and Millar on wings.

Can't wait to see Eustaquio, hoping for a speedy recovery.   Midfield will continue to be crowded after Hutch retires.  Kaye, Osorio, Eustaquio, Piette all competing for possibly 2 spots beside Arfield and David (unless you play David on wing)

Need to win at least one of those USA games  to restore confidence.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gian-Luca]

1 hour ago, narduch said:

Slightly more then $1 million per year gets you to $10 million.

I still think we're ****** either way. CSA is so tone deaf I'm pretty sure they aren't even thinking replacement.

Oh, I thought you meant a $10 million salary (ie. per year). Just over a million seems more plausible - but still somewhat insane if true

[Northvansteve]

10 hours ago, Obinna said:

He did?

I was going off memory - thought Atiba played RB somewhere along the way in Europe. 

[BearcatSA]

^Played LB for Yallop during his first WCQ cycle with us in 2004, then CB at the 2005 Gold Cup.

[Kadenge]

1 hour ago, Northvansteve said:

I was going off memory - thought Atiba played RB somewhere along the way in Europe. 

He played RB at PSV

[An Observer]

14 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

^Played LB for Yallop during his first WCQ cycle with us in 2004, then CB at the 2005 Gold Cup.

I think it was RB. And he got skinned badly by Wanchope which put us out of the World Cup qualifying. 

[BearcatSA]

16 hours ago, An Observer said:

I think it was RB. And he got skinned badly by Wanchope which put us out of the World Cup qualifying. 

I stand corrected.  I think Jazic was the LB

[Kent]

On 6/30/2019 at 10:11 PM, Obinna said:

Borjan 7

Cornelius 8.5

Henry 8

Godinho 6

Piette 7.5

Hutchinson 8

Arfield 8

Osorio 8.5

Hoilett 7.5

Kaye 7

Davies 7.5

David 9

Cavallini 8.5

ZBG 6.5

Teibert 7

Johnson, Larin, Miller, Millar didn't play enough to give a meaningful rating.

I mostly agree with this but lets give David a 10. 6 goals in 3 and a third games, leading the tournament. Only played 30 minutes against Mexico but set up a goal in his short time on the field. Had another assist or two in the tournament, and was involved in another goal or two where he didn't get credit for an assist. If this isn't a 10, we are never going to give out a 10.

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, Kent said:

I mostly agree with this but lets give David a 10. 6 goals in 3 and a third games, leading the tournament. Only played 30 minutes against Mexico but set up a goal in his short time on the field. Had another assist or two in the tournament, and was involved in another goal or two where he didn't get credit for an assist. If this isn't a 10, we are never going to give out a 10.

I can bend a little on that

He was exceptional and may win the Golden boot. Antuna and Jimenez are both on 4 goals with 1 game remaining. Hopefully Jamaica keep them off the scoreboard.

That's right, I said Jamaica. Cheering wholeheartedly against the States tonight.