The Road to Qatar.

[Alex]

The intercontinental playoff is scheduled for March 2022 though. If the World Cup goes as scheduled they will want to know the teams by then. 

[CanadianSoccerFan]

34 minutes ago, Alex said:

The intercontinental playoff is scheduled for March 2022 though. If the World Cup goes as scheduled they will want to know the teams by then. 

Of all the things FIFA can easily afford to push back, this is it.  The World Cup is in December.  Pushing the draw back to the end of June still leaves 5 months before the tournament starts.

Edited June 20, 2020 by CanadianSoccerFan

[TGAA_Star]

9 hours ago, CanadianSoccerFan said:

Of all the things FIFA can easily afford to push back, this is it.  The World Cup is in December.  Pushing the draw back to the end of June still leaves 5 months before the tournament starts.

I like it...the Group Draw in June of 2022 makes sense while the 2 Intercontinental playoffs take place in March 2022 also makes sense 

[Alex]

https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&nv=1&pto=aue&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=https://futbolcentroamerica.com/amp/noticias/Concacaf-analiza-eliminatoria-relampago-rumbo-a-Qatar-2022-20200620-0007.html%3F__twitter_impression%3Dtrue&usg=ALkJrhhtY52N7z4TEdFNnGe9neCiJbqyOQ

 

This article is translated to English, it mentions having games at a single site and playing a hex but only playing each team once. This idea contradicts what was said before that 3 groups of 4 wasn’t enough games so take it as you will. 

[CanadianSoccerFan]

FIFA Council is meeting on Thursday.  There should be a decision on the FIFA calendar from that.

[TGAA_Star]

2 hours ago, Alex said:

https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&nv=1&pto=aue&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=https://futbolcentroamerica.com/amp/noticias/Concacaf-analiza-eliminatoria-relampago-rumbo-a-Qatar-2022-20200620-0007.html%3F__twitter_impression%3Dtrue&usg=ALkJrhhtY52N7z4TEdFNnGe9neCiJbqyOQ

 

This article is translated to English, it mentions having games at a single site and playing a hex but only playing each team once. This idea contradicts what was said before that 3 groups of 4 wasn’t enough games so take it as you will. 

So they are going with the Hex then after all

[BrennanFan]

The last official news from FIFA was that 6 games is not enough to qualify for a World Cup, and that the 12 higher seeded teams should be involved in preliminary rounds. 

So Concacaf responds with a 5 game qualification for the top 6. Sounds about right. 

[Trois Reds]

4 hours ago, BrennanFan said:

The last official news from FIFA was that 6 games is not enough to qualify for a World Cup, and that the 12 higher seeded teams should be involved in preliminary rounds. 

So Concacaf responds with a 5 game qualification for the top 6. Sounds about right. 

So 29 teams have to still fight out over, what, 10-12 games for half a shot at a half slot while the top 6 teams play 5 games total and 3 still automatically qualify? I defend CONCACAF normally, but seriously, this is Mickey Mouse.  Oceania has more professional looking qualifiers

[archer21]

2 hours ago, Trois Reds said:

So 29 teams have to still fight out over, what, 10-12 games for half a shot at a half slot while the top 6 teams play 5 games total and 3 still automatically qualify? I defend CONCACAF normally, but seriously, this is Mickey Mouse.  Oceania has more professional looking qualifiers

Really hoping this information is just inaccurate. After concacaf saying they needed to change the Hex to maintain integrity and fairness, how could they then go ahead with the same format but less matches. Makes no sense. It also doesn’t solve the problem of playing the 7-35 ranked teams in the same time frame. How can they say they’re playing the whole thing in a month in one country? Is that even possible for the lower ranked tournament?

[dnina10]

13 hours ago, Trois Reds said:

So 29 teams have to still fight out over, what, 10-12 games for half a shot at a half slot while the top 6 teams play 5 games total and 3 still automatically qualify? I defend CONCACAF normally, but seriously, this is Mickey Mouse.  Oceania has more professional looking qualifiers

Well Oceania have a respectable qualifying route in general. None of the other regions have qualifying paths as mindless and stupid as CONCACAF. Not even close. I like the AFC path, outside of the 5 team groups (I don't like odd number groups). CONCACAF are trying to follow UEFA from their club competitions, and they look stupid for doing so. Keep the Hex, but everyone has to qualify for it. Someone had made a post recently (I don't remember who), with a sensible path to the Hex for all teams, with no one getting an automatic bye. A quite ideal format. Just off the top of my head, I could think of something as well. This probably wouldn't work, but it certainly makes sense in comparison to what CONCACAF has come up with.

Round 1: 34 teams are paired. Only Mexico gets a bye as the highest ranked team/defending Gold Cup champion

 

Round 2: The 17 first round winners join Mexico and are grouped into six groups of three. Home and away. Group winners qualify for the Hex

 

Round 3: Your typical Hex

 

I know this wouldn't work in this process, and as much as I hate odd number groups, this still makes more sense than what CONCACAF came up with

[Trois Reds]

1 hour ago, dnina10 said:

Well Oceania have a respectable qualifying route in general. None of the other regions have qualifying paths as mindless and stupid as CONCACAF. Not even close. I like the AFC path, outside of the 5 team groups (I don't like odd number groups). CONCACAF are trying to follow UEFA from their club competitions, and they look stupid for doing so. Keep the Hex, but everyone has to qualify for it. Someone had made a post recently (I don't remember who), with a sensible path to the Hex for all teams, with no one getting an automatic bye. A quite ideal format. Just off the top of my head, I could think of something as well. This probably wouldn't work, but it certainly makes sense in comparison to what CONCACAF has come up with.

I think what annoys me the most is the obvious continuous kowtowing to Mexico and the U.S.  They may be the main sources of revenue, but there is no revenue playing behind closed doors.   It also smacks of exclusivity and elitism.  Tier 1 "elite" nations get almost automatic World Cup places and Tier 2 "everyone else" gets shafted, sanctioned by CONCACAF.

To compare, if the UEFA qualifying campaign for 12.5 slots involved the top 16 European countries playing for 12 spots, while team 13 (of 16) gets a playoff with one European team ranked 17-50 for a chance to play an intercontinental spot, UEFA would have a revolt. Try explaining to a team like Turkey, Russia, Norway, or the Czech Republic (who aren't in that top 16 according to FIFA right now) that they'll all playing for one slot against countries like Gibraltar and Moldova while Germany and Belgium are almost guaranteed to qualify.  And, if Turkey or whoever wins, now they'll maybe play Denmark or Portugal in a playoff, but if they win, they still have to play an intercontinental.  It makes no sense and isn't even remotely fair.  Why should countries like Panama or Canada be okay with a system this?  

When it comes to CONCACAF,  don't say you want more representation for the smaller countries that play two meaningful games every four years, then tell them they have to go through a gauntlet of 30 teams for a chance to play for a chance. With a system like this, guess what? More than half those countries are now only playing two games in four years again.

[archer21]

15 hours ago, dnina10 said:

Well Oceania have a respectable qualifying route in general. None of the other regions have qualifying paths as mindless and stupid as CONCACAF. Not even close. I like the AFC path, outside of the 5 team groups (I don't like odd number groups). CONCACAF are trying to follow UEFA from their club competitions, and they look stupid for doing so. Keep the Hex, but everyone has to qualify for it. Someone had made a post recently (I don't remember who), with a sensible path to the Hex for all teams, with no one getting an automatic bye. A quite ideal format. Just off the top of my head, I could think of something as well. This probably wouldn't work, but it certainly makes sense in comparison to what CONCACAF has come up with.

Round 1: 34 teams are paired. Only Mexico gets a bye as the highest ranked team/defending Gold Cup champion

 

Round 2: The 17 first round winners join Mexico and are grouped into six groups of three. Home and away. Group winners qualify for the Hex

 

Round 3: Your typical Hex

 

I know this wouldn't work in this process, and as much as I hate odd number groups, this still makes more sense than what CONCACAF came up with

Not bad. I agree though, odd numbered groups are not ideal. How about you do the same thing you suggested but round 2 is 3 groups of 6? Top 2 in each group advance to the hex. They’re apparently planning no return legs for the hex anyways, so just have no return leg in round 2 as well.

Edited June 25, 2020 by archer21

[dnina10]

4 hours ago, archer21 said:

Not bad. I agree though, odd numbered groups are not ideal. How about you do the same thing you suggested but round 2 is 3 groups of 6? Top 2 in each group advance to the hex. They’re apparently planning no return legs for the hex anyways, so just have no return leg in round 2 as well.

Yeah, I feel you. I'm trying to avoid odd number of group matches (as some teams would get an extra home game), and odd number groups in general. Here's another idea that could work:

 

Round 1: The teams ranked 14-35 (22 teams) are paired with the winners moving on to the second round. Top 13 get a bye

Round 2: The 24 teams are grouped into four, with the top team in each group making the Hex

Round 3: Your typical Hex

 

I know, not perfect, as you would still have 11 teams that would only play 2 games, but it's still better than the idea CONCACAF came up with. Following CONCACAF's original idea, 21 of the 35 associations would have been eliminated in the first round (of the repechage). That number is almost halved in my format

[Alex]

I think the formation of the nations league was supposed to fix the problem of teams only having 2 competitive games every 4 years.

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

Several changes approved for CONCACAF WCQ:

https://www.fifa.com/who-we-are/news/fifa-council-unanimously-approves-covid-19-relief-plan

-No games in September this year.

-The June 2021 window becomes 4 matches.

-They postponed the inter-continental playoff to June 2022 (allowing for CONCACAF WCQ matches in March 2022).

Edited June 25, 2020 by Olympique_de_Marseille

[Alex]

So by my count between now and June 2022 there are 18 available matches. 

October, November 2020: 4 games

March 2021: 2 games 

June 2021: 4 games 

September, October, November 2021: 6 games 

March 2022: 2 games

[CanadianSoccerFan]

Also note that the June 2022 window was already scheduled for 4 match days instead of 2.  This raises the possibility that they could squeeze in 2 more games in June 2022 with the #4 team playing the Intercontinental playoff right afterwards.

The Panama journalist claimed the rumoured Octagonal would end in June 2022.  This reported calendar change meshes with his reported format

The three KO rounds would be Oct 2020, Nov 2020, and Mar 2021.  The octagonal would be June 2021 to June 2022 (14 match days) with team #4 playing the Intercontinental immediately after.

[CanadianSoccerFan]

CONCACAF just gave official confirmation that the old format is 100% dead.  The wording is interesting.  The reason given is the integrity issue due to the ranking cycle.  It does not mention a lack of dates.

https://www.concacaf.com/en/article/concacaf-welcomes-update-provided-by-fifa-on-international-match-calendars

The challenges presented by postponements to the football calendar, and the incomplete FIFA rankings cycle in our confederation, means our current World Cup Qualifying process has been compromised and will be changed. We will now work with the new framework provided and liaise with FIFA to finalize a new World Cup Qualification format for the Concacaf region.
 
We will also work with our stakeholders to reorganize the Concacaf Road to Gold Cup Qualifiers (originally scheduled for March and June 2020), the Concacaf Nations League Finals (originally scheduled for June 2020) and a range of other suspended competitions.
 
A further update on World Cup Qualifying and other Concacaf men’s international competitions will be provided in the coming weeks. We will also continue to work with FIFA and the other Confederations on the international match calendar process for women’s football to ensure we are well placed to support the return of the international women’s game as soon as possible.

Edited June 25, 2020 by CanadianSoccerFan

[xcalibre]

There would have been enough dates, particularly if they dropped next year's GC. The format was already flimsy at best and the lack of a "complete rankings cycle" exposed it further, thankfully we appear to have caught a break (for once?)

The only question now is how they can lay an easy path for the US and Mexico but still have them play each other

[Alex]

What concacaf want to do (and will do) is play the 2021 gold cup qualifiers, the 2021 gold cup and the nations league finals. There’s an interview by Gareth wheeler with Vic from several weeks ago where he states explicitly, they are intending on playing all of the above and the hex is scrapped due to integrity, because it didn’t give teams a fair shot at trying to gain fifa points. 

What I'm saying is I expect a format which will be a maximum of 14 games total. If we have 18 games available to play between now and June 2022, 4 of those dates are taken up by nations league finals and gold cup qualifying, assuming they are played at the same time. 

[RS]

The Gold Cup is Concacaf's golden goose, and only real money maker, so they'll do whatever it takes to keep it alive.

[CanadianSoccerFan]

2 hours ago, Alex said:

What concacaf want to do (and will do) is play the 2021 gold cup qualifiers, the 2021 gold cup and the nations league finals. There’s an interview by Gareth wheeler with Vic from several weeks ago where he states explicitly, they are intending on playing all of the above and the hex is scrapped due to integrity, because it didn’t give teams a fair shot at trying to gain fifa points. 

What I'm saying is I expect a format which will be a maximum of 14 games total. If we have 18 games available to play between now and June 2022, 4 of those dates are taken up by nations league finals and gold cup qualifying, assuming they are played at the same time. 

The Nations League Finals is not necessarily an obstacle if the first few windows of qualifiers are knockout rounds among the minnows.  The format out of Panama had the top 6 entering qualifying after 2 preliminary knockout rounds so the Final 4 participants would be available.

Gold Cup qualifying can be played outside of the FIFA window in January if necessary.  There's plenty of precedent for this.  The defunct UNCAF Championship, which used to be the Gold Cup qualifier for Central America was held every two years in January before the Gold Cup.  The final qualifying round for the Copa America Centenario 2016 was also held in January 2016 in single leg ties at a neutral venue.  Unlike with World Cup qualifying, CONCACAF can do whatever it wants with its own competitions.  It doesn't need FIFA to approve the Gold Cup qualifying format.  It only needs agreement from CONCACAF membership so there is more wiggle room.

[Alex]

4 minutes ago, CanadianSoccerFan said:

The Nations League Finals is not necessarily an obstacle if the first few windows of qualifiers are knockout rounds among the minnows.  The format out of Panama had the top 6 entering qualifying after 2 preliminary knockout rounds so the Final 4 participants would be available.

Gold Cup qualifying can be played outside of the FIFA window in January if necessary.  There's plenty of precedent for this.  The defunct UNCAF Championship, which used to be the Gold Cup qualifier for Central America was held every two years in January before the Gold Cup.  The final qualifying round for the Copa America Centenario 2016 was also held in January 2016 in single leg ties at a neutral venue.  Unlike with World Cup qualifying, CONCACAF can do whatever it wants with its own competitions.  It doesn't need FIFA to approve the Gold Cup qualifying format.  It only needs agreement from CONCACAF membership so there is more wiggle room.

You make an excellent point here that I haven’t thought of. 

Edited June 25, 2020 by Alex

[archer21]

9 hours ago, CanadianSoccerFan said:

CONCACAF just gave official confirmation that the old format is 100% dead.  The wording is interesting.  The reason given is the integrity issue due to the ranking cycle.  It does not mention a lack of dates.

https://www.concacaf.com/en/article/concacaf-welcomes-update-provided-by-fifa-on-international-match-calendars

The challenges presented by postponements to the football calendar, and the incomplete FIFA rankings cycle in our confederation, means our current World Cup Qualifying process has been compromised and will be changed. We will now work with the new framework provided and liaise with FIFA to finalize a new World Cup Qualification format for the Concacaf region.
 
We will also work with our stakeholders to reorganize the Concacaf Road to Gold Cup Qualifiers (originally scheduled for March and June 2020), the Concacaf Nations League Finals (originally scheduled for June 2020) and a range of other suspended competitions.
 
A further update on World Cup Qualifying and other Concacaf men’s international competitions will be provided in the coming weeks. We will also continue to work with FIFA and the other Confederations on the international match calendar process for women’s football to ensure we are well placed to support the return of the international women’s game as soon as possible.

Awesome, so this basically confirms that there will not be 2 separate routes for qualification. Otherwise the excuse that the teams didn’t get a chance to improve their FIFA ranking makes no sense. Almost any qualification format is better than a system where teams have completely different systems of qualification that other teams.

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

18 hours ago, RS said:

The Gold Cup is Concacaf's golden goose, and only real money maker, so they'll do whatever it takes to keep it alive.

True, but the goose only lays big eggs due to the crowd sizes. Ironically,  we could see more Gold Cup games in Canada if they still need to be played behind closed doors.