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The Road to Qatar.


Binky

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Wasnt Hutch a liability last time he played CB for us.  I cant remember the opponent, but but it seemed like he got burned 2-3 times that game.  As much as I appreciate Hutch and the things he does in midfield, he isnt the answer at CB.  And at his age its crazy to hang our hops on him for the next round of WCQ games.  Sorry Obinna...I really think we need Henry to grow up, Waterman/Cornelius/James/Miller to solidly establish themselves with their club teams and maybe we can get a decent pairing out of that.  

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3 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

I think we are hopeful that our players (especially our favorites) can be better.  And the majority of us on here see the holes (RB/CB) and we talk about it endlessly.  Our best 11 might be 3rd but we cant even begin to compare with USA/Mexico depth.  We lose Cav, David, Davies Borjan etc..there is no replacement.  Our 3 or 4th CBs dont even play at thier clubs and we are constantly trying to shoe horn someone into playing RB from another position.  I'm glad that we have young star attacking players for once, and that gives us newfound hope, but I dont think many of us have "delusions of grandeur", as we have been dissapointed by the performances on the field for so long.  

I don't agree with the bolded Bison.  I think Laryea and ZBG, and even Cordoba, have pretty much solidified the RB spot.  It's LB where I'm not sure who we use (Davies (ducks), Adekugbe or Miller). 

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4 minutes ago, Ivan said:

As I stated in another thread recently, currently, I think Hutch and Henry are our best CB pairing for 2022 qualifying.  

You could be right on that. I like a left-footed CB in the LCB spot, but it's not a deal breaker. Henry does have more experience than Cornelius, is more of a threat on set pieces and is better passing out from the back than he gets credit for. 

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I was only kidding a bit about Mexico. But... if you talk about a front 3 of Davies, Cavallini, David.. I dont know.. that's pretty tough to beat 

I also recently stumbled upon the Canada Mexico game from the Gold Cup on my pvr. Once Herdman brought on David & Arfield that game got very interesting.. just saying my weeples

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7 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Wasnt Hutch a liability last time he played CB for us.  I cant remember the opponent, but but it seemed like he got burned 2-3 times that game.  As much as I appreciate Hutch and the things he does in midfield, he isnt the answer at CB.  And at his age its crazy to hang our hops on him for the next round of WCQ games.  Sorry Obinna...I really think we need Henry to grow up, Waterman/Cornelius/James/Miller to solidly establish themselves with their club teams and maybe we can get a decent pairing out of that.  

I think it was against Martinique and I think he was beat a couple of times but it didn't lead to anything. If we are expecting our center backs to never lose any duels we are not being realistic.

Needless to say I disagree he was a liability at CB in that game. I think at the absolute very worse you can say the experiment had mixed results. It wasn't perfect, but I personally think his experience and composure on the back line gave us a presence we are sorely lacking.

Other players like Jakovic and Vitoria have the experience, but they don't have the presence (trust?) that you feel with Hutchinson back there.

Edited by Obinna
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we don't have the depth  of Mexico/USA, but in comparison to  other Concacaf teams? Most  have players from their domestic leagues. Our depth is MLS level. We all agree that our back 4 is weak, but there has been some progression there...ZBG/RL at RB: Waterman and Miller at CB, Henry looks like he is having a strong season, Bassong/Cordova at LB. While some don't have a lot of pro experience, there is some talent there.  Herdman has got to come up with a tactical set up that will protect our back 4 or at least minimize the exposure. I  hope  he is up to the task. 

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Lareya has played well but he is another converted winger who hasnt played RB long and the strength of his game is going forward. And Miller at LB is another conversion.  Basically we need help at damn near every spot on the back line, HAHA.  It would be nice if ZBG, Miller, Lareya would all be full time starters when MLS restarts, along with Waterman, Montgomery, Didic, Zator etc, somebody else really step up and force their way into the mix.  

I realize CBs lose duels but in the gold cup game (martinique thanks Obinna) I was not expecting him to be the guy that I was worried about.  And he is just another year older, I dont know if we can expect him to keep coming at his usual level for ever.  

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1 minute ago, Bison44 said:

Lareya has played well but he is another converted winger who hasnt played RB long and the strength of his game is going forward. And Miller at LB is another conversion.  Basically we need help at damn near every spot on the back line, HAHA.  It would be nice if ZBG, Miller, Lareya would all be full time starters when MLS restarts, along with Waterman, Montgomery, Didic, Zator etc, somebody else really step up and force their way into the mix.  

I realize CBs lose duels but in the gold cup game (martinique thanks Obinna) I was not expecting him to be the guy that I was worried about.  And he is just another year older, I dont know if we can expect him to keep coming at his usual level for ever.  

yes and this stoppage has really hurt the development of our young players, especially ZBG and Waterman who were both getting lots of playing time with the Impact. I just don't see Vanney starting Laryea at RB and will probably continue to use him as a sub when down a goal, which means he will not be able to develop the defensive side of his game. There appears to be a lot of hype about Miller from the Canada coaching group. Lets hope he starts for Orlando.

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Hutchinson is most likely finished with the program.  He didn't even show up for the USA games, which were massively important for us.  Why would he show up now, just to play out of position.

Like it or not, Henry, James, Cornelius, Vitoria and Miller are our CBs this cycle.  This group has more holes than swiss cheese.

If we are going to play people out of position at CB, my first choice would be Piette, followed by Kaye.

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Imo I think we should switch to 3 at the back with Cornelius/Miller-Hutchinson-Henry/Waterman. This would give us some more defensive solidity and it would allow Phonize and Laryea/ZBG the ability to get further up the field. Ideally I'd like to see us play like Frankfurt last season with 3atb, two midfielders, two wingbacks and an attacking trio up front of Cavallini and Larin with David in behind them as a CAM.

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I think as of right now Hutch in a holding midfielder role, at least coming off the bench is a no brainer 

I wish I could watch more of Estaquao but from what I've observed is he likes to get around the pitch, so it could be a good duo. But maybe by the time we play Hutch is done

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23 minutes ago, Nate3322 said:

Imo I think we should switch to 3 at the back with Cornelius/Miller-Hutchinson-Henry/Waterman. This would give us some more defensive solidity and it would allow Phonize and Laryea/ZBG the ability to get further up the field. Ideally I'd like to see us play like Frankfurt last season with 3atb, two midfielders, two wingbacks and an attacking trio up front of Cavallini and Larin with David in behind them as a CAM.

Or you can always play 3-4-3 or 3-5-2

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Against Minnows, I'm fine with Davies at LB to get more attacking players on the field. 

Against real competition. Miller and Layera are both backs that I'm actually quite comfortable with having out there. Henry & Corn are our best options out there right now at CB. it is what it is.

I really just want Facchineri or Yao to somehow develop into world class studs so it wouldn't be such a glaring hole :(

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1 hour ago, Kadenge said:

we don't have the depth  of Mexico/USA, but in comparison to  other Concacaf teams? Most  have players from their domestic leagues. Our depth is MLS level. We all agree that our back 4 is weak, but there has been some progression there...ZBG/RL at RB: Waterman and Miller at CB, Henry looks like he is having a strong season, Bassong/Cordova at LB. While some don't have a lot of pro experience, there is some talent there.  Herdman has got to come up with a tactical set up that will protect our back 4 or at least minimize the exposure. I  hope  he is up to the task. 

I think we are building depth in the defense for sure, but the quality of that depth is not so great. Someone described our depth on the back line as being comprised of "MLS-lifers" and it wasn't a compliment.

Let's keep in mind that when we talk about the domestic-heavy rosters our concacaf rivals, we are talking about the superstars of those leagues. Everyone of them are superstars. How many MLS superstars do we have? How many do the US have?

I think it is easy for us to dismiss players from Saprissa or Olimpia while we simultaneous smile upon our large MLS cohort. In reality, I don't think there is much of a talent difference, at least for now.

To end this on a positive note, I do feel we are in a trend where more of our MLS players are becoming significant rather than just being regular squad players, so that is something to get excited about. Laryea, Brault-Guillard and Akindele spring to mind, while Bair and Tabla have that potential (Tabla's potential is far greater, but that's besides the point). 

Edited by Obinna
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1 hour ago, BrennanFan said:

Hutchinson is most likely finished with the program.  He didn't even show up for the USA games, which were massively important for us.  Why would he show up now, just to play out of position.

Like it or not, Henry, James, Cornelius, Vitoria and Miller are our CBs this cycle.  This group has more holes than swiss cheese.

If we are going to play people out of position at CB, my first choice would be Piette, followed by Kaye.

I think Kaye has everything to be a fantastic CB, but Cornelius seems to be the most reliable out of that bunch, so I would replace him with Kaye.

I do agree though that Hutchinson is likely done.

Edited by Obinna
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What’s funny now is we should have tried to be ranked 13th and play the Minnow route. It’s easier now. You have to win the tournament of 13-35 ranked in concacaf not 7-35 ranked in concacaf to make the playoff.

If Canada were 13th without a doubt we should be playing a playoff vs Panama/ Jamaica to make the intercontinental playoff.  

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I think it's tough with Atiba because the travel is definitely hard on him. It gets harder and harder to recover as you get older and travel straight up multiplies that fatigue. I don't think it's a coincidence he started playing some of his best football in years after the gold cup was over and he could focus on his own health and playing for Besiktas 

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20 minutes ago, canadafan101 said:

What’s funny now is we should have tried to be ranked 13th and play the Minnow route. It’s easier now. You have to win the tournament of 13-35 ranked in concacaf not 7-35 ranked in concacaf to make the playoff.

If Canada were 13th without a doubt we should be playing a playoff vs Panama/ Jamaica to make the intercontinental playoff.  

Guatemala will laugh all the way to the playoff.   

 

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6 hours ago, canadafan101 said:

What’s funny now is we should have tried to be ranked 13th and play the Minnow route. It’s easier now. You have to win the tournament of 13-35 ranked in concacaf not 7-35 ranked in concacaf to make the playoff.

If Canada were 13th without a doubt we should be playing a playoff vs Panama/ Jamaica to make the intercontinental playoff.  

That's why I highly doubt about the best 2nd place team of three groups would facing winner of lower tier directly. 

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Asia has scheduled their qualifiers to resume in October.  They are playing the last four match days of the semi-final round in October and November with their final round commencing in March.  There is no indication that they will change the format of the final round which is currently set to be a double hex plus a crossover playoff requiring 12 total match days.  There are only 10 match days in 2021 so they would need the March 2022 window to determine their rep for the intercontinental playoff.  This would indicate the intercontinental playoff will not happen until June 2022.

https://www.the-afc.com/competitions/fifa-world-cup/latest/news/afc-announces-proposed-dates-for-upcoming-asian-qualifiers

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Peggy said:

The 3 best keepers in CONCACAF are:

1) Guillermo Ochoa - Mexico

2) Keylor Navas - Costa Rica

3) Tyrick Bodak - Curacao

He's only played youth games for PSV. There's no chance he's the third best keeper in CONCACAF over someone like Borjan who plays champions league football every year. No doubt he has the potential to be in the top 3 in the future but he definitely isn't there yet.

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21 hours ago, Obinna said:

If Hutchinson can stay healthy and committed and not retire until 2022 AND also be willing to play RCB for us I would feel a lot better about our chances, both in qualifying and the World Cup (if we get there).

I know that would be a big ask and I wouldn't blame him for hanging them up, because he has been a fantastic servant to the program and truly one of the greats to ever wear the Canadian shirt. 

He is 37 right now, but he still plays regularly at Besiktas. I think he posted 4 goals in 25 games from defensive midfield in the Super Lig this season. The break we have had is probably good for any player like him who wishes to extend their career. He would be 39 in 2022. 

Is it crazy for me to hang my hopes on Hutchinson here?  

Yes.  He played CB for Canada at CB in the U20 WC in 2007.  He was ultimately named to the tournament best eleven.  We have never had that kind of achievement since.    And that 2007 squad arguably achieved the greatest performance by a mens NT team since qualifying for the WC by the senior team in 1986.  CB is our achilles heel on the NT.   There is no real standout at that position so what is there to lose by playing him at CB.   The position doesnt require the greatest mobility and its about smarts,  he would fit the bill.   Its a gamble worth taking IMHO.

 

Edit:  it was 2003, not 2007,  the year that Cnd made to the quarterfinals and lost 2-1 to Spain at the U20 WC.

Edited by Free kick
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