OneSoccer

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

15 minutes ago, Kent said:

...the pro game prospering in Canada is important for the national team,...

That's something that has been happening since at least 2007 with the launch of TFC and arguably longer with what the Whitecaps and Impact were already achieving in the A League/USL immediately prior to that. The CSA imposing a moratorium on more USSF sanctioned clubs in order to wait for CanPL to be able to launch slowed the momentum of the growth of the domestic pro game by close to a decade.

What we need to see from CanPL moving forward to generate some tangible benefit for the CMNT is a greater effort to emulate what the three MLS franchises are already doing at youth level by placing a greater emphasis on developing their own players through meritocratic youth academies with no pay-to-play component. That's expensive to do to the extent MLS does but they could still be doing more than they have been so far in that context. 

Right now they appear to be focusing on bringing in U-23 players from elsewhere that they think they can use in a Moneyball sort of way short term and then sell on while using young Canadian players mainly as roster filler on very low salaries. Hopefully they will drop that strategy after another couple of seasons once Bob Young and co realize they have been duped on how likely it is to actually work for them and will realize they are better off focusing on maximizing what's on their doorstep with the budget they have.

[narduch]

We still can't even get TFC to play its young Canadians based on merit.

Edited June 18, 2021 by narduch

[Aird25]

Ah yes, the old CPL should be semi-pro yet have fully funded youth academies in order to feed our american based teams with free players argument. Where you at, investors?

[narduch]

1 minute ago, Aird25 said:

Ah yes, the old CPL should be semi-pro yet have fully funded youth academies in order to feed our american based teams with free players argument. Where you at, investors?

The 3 MLS clubs don't even do a good job of turning their own Academy players into full professionals and we are expecting a league that just got off the ground to immediately do a better job?

[longlugan]

Ozzie with a not surprising take on CPL's shortcomings and need to follow the USSF model. Never change Ozzie...you fucking douchebag.

[Watchmen]

8 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

The CSA imposing a moratorium on more USSF sanctioned clubs in order to wait for CanPL to be able to launch slowed the momentum of the growth of the domestic pro game by close to a decade.

The CSA moratorium was roughly a year or two, not a decade.  And the only case we've ever been able to remotely prove was impacted by this moratorium was Vancouver relocating WFC2 to Calgary.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

The moratorium went into effect in November 2010 and the Whitecaps were not able to sell WFC2 to the Calgary group around 2018, so not sure how you are arriving at a year or two in duration. Winding things back to Onesoccer, CanPL and the CMNT, 0/60 for CanPL vs 36/60 in MLS in the preliminary Gold Cup roster has to be a major embarrassment for the league's investors after all the rhetoric pre-launch and must be putting some sort of strain on their relationship with Mediapro behind the scenes.

[narduch]

15 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

The moratorium went into effect in November 2010 and the Whitecaps were not able to sell WFC2 to the Calgary group around 2018, so not sure how you are arriving at a year or two in duration. Winding things back to Onesoccer, CanPL and the CMNT, 0/60 for CanPL vs 36/60 in MLS in the preliminary Gold Cup roster has to be a major embarrassment for the league's investors after all the rhetoric pre-launch and must be putting some sort of strain on their relationship with Mediapro behind the scenes.

That doesn't make any sense. 

Whitecaps FC 2 didn't start play until 2015. Their last season was 2017

Edited June 19, 2021 by narduch

[m-g-williams]

15 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Winding things back to Onesoccer, CanPL and the CMNT, 0/60 for CanPL vs 36/60 in MLS in the preliminary Gold Cup roster has to be a major embarrassment for the league's investors after all the rhetoric pre-launch and must be putting some sort of strain on their relationship with Mediapro behind the scenes.

It was made pretty clear (and pretty public) that investors understood this to be a long-term commitment, not something that would pay off in the short-term. Despite that, multiple CPL players have already trained with the CMNT and former CPLers have done decently in other leagues. And as others have noted, the fact that they haven't featured in the Gold Cup roster probably has more to do with having to bubble for The Kickoff than anything else. I think the only major embarrassment here is trying to read the tea leaves for a story about the league somehow failing when this just doesn't seem to be the case. 

Edited June 20, 2021 by m-g-williams

[Aird25]

8 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Winding things back to Onesoccer, CanPL and the CMNT, 0/60 for CanPL vs 36/60 in MLS in the preliminary Gold Cup roster has to be a major embarrassment for the league's investors after all the rhetoric pre-launch and must be putting some sort of strain on their relationship with Mediapro behind the scenes.

No kidding. Especially when you consider how dominant some of the Canadians have been in CPL over the past few months 

[Bison44]

 "Not pretending to be something they are not but instead going after the live entertainment dollar in midsized markets where junior hockey draws well in the winter but there is no CFL or baseball worth mentioning in the summer."

I like this gem.  By this logic Winnipeg, Edmonton, Hamilton, Calgary wouldnt or shouldnt be in the CPL.  

[SthMelbRed]

12 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

The moratorium went into effect in November 2010 and the Whitecaps were not able to sell WFC2 to the Calgary group around 2018, so not sure how you are arriving at a year or two in duration. Winding things back to Onesoccer, CanPL and the CMNT, 0/60 for CanPL vs 36/60 in MLS in the preliminary Gold Cup roster has to be a major embarrassment for the league's investors after all the rhetoric pre-launch and must be putting some sort of strain on their relationship with Mediapro behind the scenes.

Were you dropped on your head in adolescence? 🙄

[Watchmen]

18 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

The moratorium went into effect in November 2010 and the Whitecaps were not able to sell WFC2 to the Calgary group around 2018, so not sure how you are arriving at a year or two in duration.

I guess someone forgot to tell the Ottawa Fury (founded June 2011). Or the TSS Rovers (founded 2017). Or enforce it with any of the MLS teams founding their USL clubs. The only club impacted was the relocation of WFC2 at a time when it was clear they were trying to get the CPL off the ground. Do you have any other proof or evidence of investors trying to found clubs and being blocked, or just the one I mentioned and you repeated?

[toontownman]

10 hours ago, m-g-williams said:

 I think the only major embarrassment here is trying to read the tea leaves for a story about the league somehow failing when this just doesn't seem to be the case. 

It is searching to read the tea leaves at the bottom of his finished double double.

If in doubt, create your own narrative. 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

22 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

I guess someone forgot to tell the Ottawa Fury (founded June 2011). Or the TSS Rovers (founded 2017). Or enforce it with any of the MLS teams founding their USL clubs. The only club impacted was the relocation of WFC2 at a time when it was clear they were trying to get the CPL off the ground. Do you have any other proof or evidence of investors trying to found clubs and being blocked, or just the one I mentioned and you repeated?

The Fury had already been in PDL from as far back as 2005 and the deal to have them as part of the redeveloped Landsdowne Park with a professional level soccer team predated the moratorium. They were grandfathered in. The moratorium was imposed after Tony Waiters had been hired by USL to coordinate further Canadian pro level expansion. Groups in London, Hamilton and Victoria were frequently mentioned at the time as being interested in the USL Pro league that launched in 2011. The moratorium blocked this. It's easy enough to go back to all the old threads for the details.

Edited June 20, 2021 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Bison44]

He is totally ignoring L1O.  They formed during the moratorium, London, WIndsor Brampton, Waterloo et al and I think even Hamilton is going to have a team soon.  The narrative that he is selling, that our momentum for domestic soccer being slowed by maybe keeping a US league from poaching a group of CDN investors is horseshit.   L1O and the Quebec league formed in the time he is talking about. ANd a BC league is being discussed now.  And they have all scoured the bushes .."focused on their own doorsteps"  and have had  lots of kids move on to bigger and better leagues. 

Cripes I dont know why we keep having to get dragged into one guys fantasy land discussions.."we cant do anything unless its in a us league"..when the proof is right in front of us for all to see.  

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

L1O is almost entirely amateur for NCAA eligibility reasons so difficult to see how that's relevant. The CSA imposed the moratorium in late 2010 when it became clear that there might finally be sufficient investor interest building in pro level soccer outside the MLS three to have a domestic coast-to-coast pro league. The CSA have always preferred that scenario but have also been pragmatic on the issue when they have needed to be.

Intitially the 2015 Women's World Cup was supposed to be the catalyst for it but the Easton Report came back with the conclusion that the conditions were not ripe. After that a men's World Cup bid allegedly revolving around CFL venues became the driver and eventually CanPL had its launch season in 2019 nearing a decade after the point when the moratorium had been imposed.

Winding things back to Mediapro and Onesoccer I think it's reasonable to suggest that the scale of their "investment" (a figure of $150 million over 10 years has been mentioned a lot) would be more consistent with a league that would have at least a couple of players in the final 23 man roster for the Gold Cup never mind a 60 man preliminary one. Bear in mind at least some European based players like Borjan and Adekugbe are not being called so they can focus on their club careers and this tournament may well be used to see what some fringe CMNT players can do prior to the octagon.

Given this is about increasingly unlikely emergency callups once you pass 40 on the depth chart the optics of not having the likes of Didic, Bustos, Zator, Bekker and Borges even on a 60 man list are not good. Onesoccer would ideally be looking for ways to use national team games to effectively cross-promote the CMNT and CanPL. Every time one of those players is on the ball in a CanPL game Gareth Wheeler and co could be saying "...who is/was on standby waiting for a call from John Herdman where the Gold Cup is/was concerned..." etc etc.

Edited June 20, 2021 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[SthMelbRed]

5 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

L1O is almost entirely amateur for NCAA eligibility reasons so difficult to see how that's relevant. The CSA imposed the moratorium in late 2010 when it became clear that there might finally be sufficient investor interest building in pro level soccer outside the MLS three to have a domestic coast-to-coast pro league. The CSA have always preferred that scenario but have also been pragmatic on the issue when they have needed to be.

Intitially the 2015 Women's World Cup was supposed to be the catalyst for it but the Easton Report came back with the conclusion that the conditions were not ripe. After that a men's World Cup bid allegedly revolving around CFL venues became the driver and eventually CanPL had its launch season in 2019 nearing a decade after the point when the moratorium had been imposed.

Winding things back to Mediapro and Onesoccer I think it's reasonable to suggest that the scale of their "investment" (a figure of $150 million over 10 years has been mentioned a lot) would be more consistent with a league that would have at least a couple of players in the final 23 man roster for the Gold Cup never mind a 60 man preliminary one. Bear in mind at least some European based players like Borjan and Adekugbe are not being called so they can focus on their club careers and this tournament may well be used to see what some fringe CMNT players can do prior to the octagon.

Given this is about increasingly unlikely emergency callups once you pass 40 on the depth chart the optics of not having the likes of Didic, Bustos, Zator, Bekker and Borges even on a 60 man list are not good. Onesoccer would ideally be looking for ways to use national team games to effectively cross-promote the CMNT and CanPL. Every time one of those players is on the ball in a CanPL game Gareth Wheeler and co could be saying "...who is/was on standby waiting for a call from John Herdman where the Gold Cup is/was concerned..." etc etc.

The CanPL players will be going into a bubble which will last the duration of the Gold Cup tournament, you brain-dead moron. 

[Ansem]

8 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

L1O is almost entirely amateur for NCAA eligibility reasons so difficult to see how that's relevant. The CSA imposed the moratorium in late 2010 when it became clear that there might finally be sufficient investor interest building in pro level soccer outside the MLS three to have a domestic coast-to-coast pro league. The CSA have always preferred that scenario but have also been pragmatic on the issue when they have needed to be.

Intitially the 2015 Women's World Cup was supposed to be the catalyst for it but the Easton Report came back with the conclusion that the conditions were not ripe. After that a men's World Cup bid allegedly revolving around CFL venues became the driver and eventually CanPL had its launch season in 2019 nearing a decade after the point when the moratorium had been imposed.

Winding things back to Mediapro and Onesoccer I think it's reasonable to suggest that the scale of their "investment" (a figure of $150 million over 10 years has been mentioned a lot) would be more consistent with a league that would have at least a couple of players in the final 23 man roster for the Gold Cup never mind a 60 man preliminary one. Bear in mind at least some European based players like Borjan and Adekugbe are not being called so they can focus on their club careers and this tournament may well be used to see what some fringe CMNT players can do prior to the octagon.

Given this is about increasingly unlikely emergency callups once you pass 40 on the depth chart the optics of not having the likes of Didic, Bustos, Zator, Bekker and Borges even on a 60 man list are not good. Onesoccer would ideally be looking for ways to use national team games to effectively cross-promote the CMNT and CanPL. Every time one of those players is on the ball in a CanPL game Gareth Wheeler and co could be saying "...who is/was on standby waiting for a call from John Herdman where the Gold Cup is/was concerned..." etc etc.

Sir...why do you hate yourself?

[Watchmen]

10 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

The Fury had already been in PDL from as far back as 2005 and the deal to have them as part of the redeveloped Landsdowne Park with a professional level soccer team predated the moratorium. They were grandfathered in. The moratorium was imposed after Tony Waiters had been hired by USL to coordinate further Canadian pro level expansion. Groups in London, Hamilton and Victoria were frequently mentioned at the time as being interested in the USL Pro league that launched in 2011. The moratorium blocked this. It's easy enough to go back to all the old threads for the details.

Victoria already had a PDL team. They could have been grandfathered in too, if a serious investor had been interested.

[Aird25]

10 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

L1O is almost entirely amateur for NCAA eligibility reasons so difficult to see how that's relevant. The CSA imposed the moratorium in late 2010 when it became clear that there might finally be sufficient investor interest building in pro level soccer outside the MLS three to have a domestic coast-to-coast pro league. The CSA have always preferred that scenario but have also been pragmatic on the issue when they have needed to be.

Intitially the 2015 Women's World Cup was supposed to be the catalyst for it but the Easton Report came back with the conclusion that the conditions were not ripe. After that a men's World Cup bid allegedly revolving around CFL venues became the driver and eventually CanPL had its launch season in 2019 nearing a decade after the point when the moratorium had been imposed.

Winding things back to Mediapro and Onesoccer I think it's reasonable to suggest that the scale of their "investment" (a figure of $150 million over 10 years has been mentioned a lot) would be more consistent with a league that would have at least a couple of players in the final 23 man roster for the Gold Cup never mind a 60 man preliminary one. Bear in mind at least some European based players like Borjan and Adekugbe are not being called so they can focus on their club careers and this tournament may well be used to see what some fringe CMNT players can do prior to the octagon.

Given this is about increasingly unlikely emergency callups once you pass 40 on the depth chart the optics of not having the likes of Didic, Bustos, Zator, Bekker and Borges even on a 60 man list are not good. Onesoccer would ideally be looking for ways to use national team games to effectively cross-promote the CMNT and CanPL. Every time one of those players is on the ball in a CanPL game Gareth Wheeler and co could be saying "...who is/was on standby waiting for a call from John Herdman where the Gold Cup is/was concerned..." etc etc.

Christ. Talk about the definition of insanity. Give us all a break

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

7 hours ago, Watchmen said:

Victoria already had a PDL team. They could have been grandfathered in too, if a serious investor had been interested.

The problem with that though is that the CSA hadn't made any written commitments in a Victoria context about a pro team at USSF D2 level prior to imposing the moratorium unlike in Ottawa. The Highlanders were rumoured to be going after USL Pro at USSF D3 level and Tony Waiters was hired in that sort of context by USL. The CSL (the latter day one that eventually got desanctioned by Montagliani & Co and still exists in southern Ontario as an unsanctioned semi-pro league) were sanctioned for the regional semi-pro sort of level in a Canadian context by the CSA and were still actively talking about western expansion so going after D3 was more problematic than D2.

The Highlanders were grandfathered in OK at PDL level though and PDL entry wasn't an issue in BC in sanctioning terms in the absence of an L1O type league. Ditto Alberta with the Foothills and Manitoba with WSA Winnipeg. Meanwhile in Ontario, FC London (who had been the London group interested in stepping up to USL Pro) and KW United (complex history but grew out of the group that had been interested in a USL Pro team in Hamilton from what I remember and initially had a PDL team in Hamilton that grew out of Hamilton's W League entry) eventually ran into the same sorts of issues on annual sanctioning in a PDL context that the Ottawa Fury later did with the USL Championship. FC London agreed to move to L1O as they had never been keen on PDL's short season format, while KW United eventually folded outright after initially using a partnership with TFC to continue in PDL.

Edited June 21, 2021 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Unnamed Trialist]

12 hours ago, SthMelbRed said:

The CanPL players will be going into a bubble which will last the duration of the Gold Cup tournament, you brain-dead moron. 

It is so basic, but I'll respond to you instead of humouring him, after such a sectarian and fundamentally lame post.

I mean if CPL was in season and had started Victoria Day then you could discuss possible names for the GC based on performance. We have seen nothing from these guys though. But these players have played 7-10 competitive games in the last year (Forge a few more), and the vast majority have not even played a friendly in 2021. You don't put inactive players on a wish list, that is patently absurd. Saying that is somehow downplays the CPL, that is really reaching, it is worse than begging the question.

Now that the league is about to start, you cannot pull players from their teams for a GC we are not even competiting in at full strength. You can't break a bubble and then send them back. Especially when we are not even taking it as a priority, it is not a major tournament for Canada this year. So arguing anything else shows very bad faith.

I like that our depth chart can be put together without the possible 5-6 players in CPL who otherwise might be on the edge of a B-C team roster for Canada. It proves our depth is in fact far better than what that prelim roster of 60 shows. 

We are not going to see any player from the CPL in a Canada camp in the next year, with one possible exception I can imagine. I would not entirely discount a possible third keeper, as usually that role is for an up and coming to help the team train and give the starter and sub some rest in practice (thinking Carducci). But only where calling in an MLS starter to be third keeper could be useless (say Crepeau or St Clair are in a playoff). If the schedule had allowed for or encouraged scrimmages before WC matches, that could also have meant some fringe call-ups (taxi squad). But we won't even have time for scrimmages, we arrive, limber up, play and travel and play and play. So we won't even see a Didic called in to support the group in Edmonton, to give an example, or a Baldissimo in Vancouver, no point. 

Edited June 21, 2021 by Unnamed Trialist

[narduch]

Saying all that, Haiti and T+T both called CPL players.

But that says more about their depth than anything else.

UT makes a good point. Had the CPL started in April there would have been a few players on the 60-man roster.

[Unnamed Trialist]

2 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

The problem with that though is that the CSA hadn't made any written commitments in a Victoria context about a pro team at USSF D2 level prior to imposing the moratorium unlike in Ottawa. The Highlanders were rumoured to be going after USL Pro at USSF D3 level and Tony Waiters was hired in that sort of context by USL. The CSL (the latter day one that eventually got desanctioned by Montagliani & Co and still exists in southern Ontario as an unsanctioned semi-pro league) were sanctioned for the regional semi-pro sort of level in a Canadian context by the CSA and were still actively talking about western expansion so going after D3 was more problematic than D2.

The Highlanders were grandfathered in OK at PDL level though and PDL entry wasn't an issue in BC in sanctioning terms in the absence of an L1O type league. Ditto Alberta with the Foothills and Manitoba with WSA Winnipeg. Meanwhile in Ontario, FC London (who had been the London group interested in stepping up to USL Pro) and KW United (complex history but grew out of the group that had been interested in a USL Pro team in Hamilton from what I remember and initially had a PDL team in Hamilton that grew out of Hamilton's W League entry) eventually ran into the same sorts of issues on annual sanctioning in a PDL context that the Ottawa Fury later did with the USL Championship. FC London agreed to move to L1O as they had never been keen on PDL's short season format, while KW United eventually folded outright after initially using a partnership with TFC to continue in PDL.

With all due respect, I read your posts and have never blocked you, and do not usually find your posting as irritating or off the mark as many do here. But these kinds of ranty posts you are onto lately are the sort that get written in cramped handwriting on a little piece of graph paper, and are then taped to the nearest bus shelter in the neighbourhood. 

What is the point of posting like you haven't taken your meds when you are perfectly fine and don't need medication?