Kamron Habibullah

[SthMelbRed]

2 minutes ago, Footyeh said:

Great again today, probably should have had a goal and an assist at the very least.

 

Just saw this tweet...  I see a lot of talk like this about Coupland recently (not at all to take away from his good performances) about how he should be in the 1st team but he's the same age as Habibullah, same minutes, and 2nd to him in almost every stat.  Besides stats, you can see he's far more mature in his decision making, movement, creativity.  So how does he jump him in terms of "MLS Ready"??  I guess a case of a shiny new toy with Vancouver fans?  I'd ultimately like to see them both get chances.  Also, can we really call Levonte a prospect at 24 years old?

I believe there's been rumblings that young Kam had a bust up with Sartini back when Sartini was still working at the academy, and he's not likely to be getting too many MLS looks unless there's a coaching change.

[Footyeh]

Just now, SthMelbRed said:

I believe there's been rumblings that young Kam had a bust up with Sartini back when Sartini was still working at the academy, and he's not likely to be getting too many MLS looks unless there's a coaching change.

Yes.  But I was speaking more towards how the Whitecaps fan's talk online, to me it feels like "how quickly everyone forgets".  The club is notorious for ruining young players, I find it odd that fans are so quick to want to promote players as "the next big prospect" but refuse to even acknowledge or ask questions of the club as to why the previous ones are being given chances.

[Shway]

5 hours ago, Footyeh said:

Yes.  But I was speaking more towards how the Whitecaps fan's talk online, to me it feels like "how quickly everyone forgets".  The club is notorious for ruining young players, I find it odd that fans are so quick to want to promote players as "the next big prospect" but refuse to even acknowledge or ask questions of the club as to why the previous ones are being given chances.

I’ve been asking these questions about Rusty 🤪.

[Watchmen]

10 hours ago, SthMelbRed said:

I believe there's been rumblings that young Kam had a bust up with Sartini back when Sartini was still working at the academy, and he's not likely to be getting too many MLS looks unless there's a coaching change.

I do not know what his current standing is with Sartini. I have heard that his attitude with WFC2 is much improved over what he was like in the academy pre-loan.

[Footyeh]

4 hours ago, Watchmen said:

I do not know what his current standing is with Sartini. I have heard that his attitude with WFC2 is much improved over what he was like in the academy pre-loan.

What was his attitude and where is that narrative coming from that he didn't have a good one?  I never understood where this notion came from when everyone praised him so highly for his character in addition to his ability in the academy when he was signed and in his first season under MDS.  

The issue with Sartini wasn't actually even with Kamron directly, it was with his brother who was also in the club at the time and who Sartini first suspended and then released from the U23's.  

 

[Watchmen]

23 minutes ago, Footyeh said:

What was his attitude and where is that narrative coming from that he didn't have a good one?  I never understood where this notion came from when everyone praised him so highly for his character in addition to his ability in the academy when he was signed and in his first season under MDS.  

The issue with Sartini wasn't actually even with Kamron directly, it was with his brother who was also in the club at the time and who Sartini first suspended and then released from the U23's.  

 

Standard "bit of entitlement" issue is my understanding, which has happened before with the club. Regardless, it doesn't sound like it's an issue now.

Edited May 26, 2023 by Watchmen

[jordan]

20 minutes ago, Footyeh said:

What was his attitude and where is that narrative coming from that he didn't have a good one?  I never understood where this notion came from when everyone praised him so highly for his character in addition to his ability in the academy when he was signed and in his first season under MDS.  

The issue with Sartini wasn't actually even with Kamron directly, it was with his brother who was also in the club at the time and who Sartini first suspended and then released from the U23's.  

 

2 pages back you mention a few things, maybe they have been misinterpreted over time.

[footballfreak]

15 hours ago, Footyeh said:

Great again today, probably should have had a goal and an assist at the very least.

 

Just saw this tweet...  I see a lot of talk like this about Coupland recently (not at all to take away from his good performances) about how he should be in the 1st team but he's the same age as Habibullah, same minutes, and 2nd to him in almost every stat.  Besides stats, you can see he's far more mature in his decision making, movement, creativity.  So how does he jump him in terms of "MLS Ready"??  I guess a case of a shiny new toy with Vancouver fans?  I'd ultimately like to see them both get chances.  Also, can we really call Levonte a prospect at 24 years old?

Coupland has 22 tackles to Habibullah’s 4, and 16 key passes to Habibullah’s 10.

Coupland is a pass-first player. Habibullah is a shoot-first player. There’s nothing wrong with being a shoot-first player, but you need to be an efficient finisher. Habibullah’s shooting numbers this year simply haven’t been good - 4 goals in 34 shots. And it’s not like he’s being asked to carry the offence and take low percentage shots either; the baby Caps are one of the best attacking sides in Next Pro.

From an eye test, I totally believe the tackles number. Coupland is very involved in all phases of play, and never seems to tire. When Habibullah is on the ball, he’s involved and you can see his class. When he’s not on the ball, he has an unfortunate tendency to disappear. I don’t know whether it’s a fitness issue or an effort/focus issue, but his off-ball runs need to be better. He did have a good tackle tracking back last night at the end of the game, which was nice to see.

If you want a good microcosm of their two seasons so far, the second half of last night’s game is on youtube, and is fairly representative sample imo. San Jose did a good job shutting down the Caps all game long. Coupland comes on and almost immediately the game changes. He pops in the winning assist after five minutes on the field, and we spend the rest of the game squandering chances on the break. Habibullah actually had a good game all things considered, but he didn’t finish his big chance in the second half, and only completed 13 passes in 90 minutes. The team could maybe do a better job finding him, but it’s a two way street.

There might be a little of the “shiny new toy” factor as you say, but Coupland has performed at a higher level in the limited sample size I’ve seen.

[Footyeh]

56 minutes ago, footballfreak said:

Coupland has 22 tackles to Habibullah’s 4, and 16 key passes to Habibullah’s 10.

Coupland is a pass-first player. Habibullah is a shoot-first player. There’s nothing wrong with being a shoot-first player, but you need to be an efficient finisher. Habibullah’s shooting numbers this year simply haven’t been good - 4 goals in 34 shots. And it’s not like he’s being asked to carry the offence and take low percentage shots either; the baby Caps are one of the best attacking sides in Next Pro.

From an eye test, I totally believe the tackles number. Coupland is very involved in all phases of play, and never seems to tire. When Habibullah is on the ball, he’s involved and you can see his class. When he’s not on the ball, he has an unfortunate tendency to disappear. I don’t know whether it’s a fitness issue or an effort/focus issue, but his off-ball runs need to be better. He did have a good tackle tracking back last night at the end of the game, which was nice to see.

If you want a good microcosm of their two seasons so far, the second half of last night’s game is on youtube, and is fairly representative sample imo. San Jose did a good job shutting down the Caps all game long. Coupland comes on and almost immediately the game changes. He pops in the winning assist after five minutes on the field, and we spend the rest of the game squandering chances on the break. Habibullah actually had a good game all things considered, but he didn’t finish his big chance in the second half, and only completed 13 passes in 90 minutes. The team could maybe do a better job finding him, but it’s a two way street.

There might be a little of the “shiny new toy” factor as you say, but Coupland has performed at a higher level in the limited sample size I’ve seen.

Good points for sure, and I didn't want to sound like I'm low on Coupland.  

I don't agree with the "shoot first" part, I think if you really go through all the matches he's played this year and see how many times he's slipped in players who haven't finished he should gave many more assists.  Off the top of my mind the one pass to Ngando yesterday.  

Defensively sure, Coupland is more active on the eye but is that we want them for?  In their shape/lineup, they should already be having 7 players behind the ball, if anything they should be pressing from the front rather than having to track back.  I mean do we really want players like Gauld or Vite going back and tackling or do we want them free to be creative players that they are.  I mean we have ton's of players who can run and do those tasks well, we don't have these creative types. 

A quick look at wyscout, he avgs more offensive duals per 90 than Coupland and a higher win percentage of those but not by much (38% to 32%).  Defensive duals per 90 Coupland is higher (9 to 5) and defensive duals win% Coupland is also higher but not by much (50% to 48%).  Attacking & Key passing category, he has the highest xG and xA, most completed passes in final third (70% to 58%), overall avg passing (82% to 73%).    Fouls suffered per 90 in Habibullah favor (2.3 to 0.79).  The avg number of passes attempts per game from both is identical at 26 which is low.

He certainly does need to covert more, and maybe until then he won't get the attention.

 

Edited May 26, 2023 by Footyeh

[footballfreak]

2 hours ago, Footyeh said:

Good points for sure, and I didn't want to sound like I'm low on Coupland.  

I don't agree with the "shoot first" part, I think if you really go through all the matches he's played this year and see how many times he's slipped in players who haven't finished he should gave many more assists.  Off the top of my mind the one pass to Ngando yesterday.  

Defensively sure, Coupland is more active on the eye but is that we want them for?  In their shape/lineup, they should already be having 7 players behind the ball, if anything they should be pressing from the front rather than having to track back.  I mean do we really want players like Gauld or Vite going back and tackling or do we want them free to be creative players that they are.  I mean we have ton's of players who can run and do those tasks well, we don't have these creative types. 

A quick look at wyscout, he avgs more offensive duals per 90 than Coupland and a higher win percentage of those but not by much (38% to 32%).  Defensive duals per 90 Coupland is higher (9 to 5) and defensive duals win% Coupland is also higher but not by much (50% to 48%).  Attacking & Key passing category, he has the highest xG and xA, most completed passes in final third (70% to 58%), overall avg passing (82% to 73%).    Fouls suffered per 90 in Habibullah favor (2.3 to 0.79).  The avg number of passes attempts per game from both is identical at 26 which is low.

He certainly does need to covert more, and maybe until then he won't get the attention.

 

All good points. 

I would push back on the notion that Coupland is being pulled out of position hunting tackles. Haven’t really seen that. Vanni’s 10’s can’t be passengers and are frequently the ones initiating presses when the ball goes to the opposition fullbacks. Having a 10 that can put in a tackle and start the counter higher up the field would be an asset. 

Just to confirm, in the bolded section Habibullah has the advantage? I don’t have access to wyscout, but I’d be curious to see a comparison of npxG+xA/90. Interesting that Habibullah has the higher pass percentage in the final third but not higher chance creation (afaik). Perhaps an indicator he’s been a little too safe? Certainly feels that way, but I could be wrong.

To give Habibullah the benefit of the doubt on his shot numbers, I’m guessing free kick takers’ overall numbers take a dip. Not sure if free kick numbers are available to filter out, but it would be interesting to see run-of-play shots/on target/goals. We’ve also had a few rainy games, and the pitch at Swangard has seen better days.

The fouls suffered thing is interesting. I feel like it can be read two ways. Either Habibullah is being targeted more by opposition defenders, or he’s  not moving the ball quickly enough but is shifty enough to turn it into a foul (Owusu-itis). Eye test and the low pass total says a mix of both imo.

Re: the identical pass total numbers, how many touches are they each getting? If the pass totals are the same, but Habibullah’s possessions are ending in shots and fouls more often, I’m guessing that translates to fewer overall touches for Coupland?

Something I hadn’t really considered up until now was the fullbacks. Coupland has spent more time on the right and gets to work with Bah. Habibullah roams around, but spends more time on the left. I like Gherasimencov, but both he and Greco-Taylor are more limited in attack than Bah.

Ultimately it’s a good problem to have. The two of them, plus Ngando and Johnson, can all push each other and make each other better.

[VinceA]

Uzbekistan is playing against the US in the fall in St. Louis. There is a scenario where he's called in to at least train with their senior side. They have been after him before.

[Footyeh]

Got featured in this article on MLS website.  Love how they didn't make mention that he's a Canadian U20/U17 international but rather mentioned he's Uzbekistan 😆

https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/10-mls-homegrowns-excelling-in-mls-next-pro-in-2023 

[PegCityCam]

Spanish 3rd division?

 

[cronaldo7]

1 hour ago, PegCityCam said:

Spanish 3rd division?

 

The team is owned by a Canadian. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

Just now, cronaldo7 said:

The team is owned by a Canadian. 

Exactly. And came very close to promoting this year, just slipped in the playoff. Castellón has the stadium and fan base to be a division higher.

I've not watched them this last season.

He played for the B team in a friendly, that'd be 5th tier.

Edited August 15, 2023 by Unnamed Trialist

[Footyeh]

Did a game with B team against Villarreal after arriving to get acclimated after travel.

Been with 1st team since and played in their 1-1 draw on the weekend, he earned the PK to tie the match.  There's a highlight of it on youtube.  Would be a great landing spot if he can stick, they hired a top coach who also worked in the MLS before and is the brother of famous manager Alfred Schreuder who coached at Ajax, Barcelona and Brugge.  Seem to be getting big investment in the club from the new owner and were one game away from promotion.

On a side note... the stadium and level of fan support the team gets looks incredible.  Saw these highlights from last years promotion playoff match 🤯 

 

Edited August 15, 2023 by Footyeh

[Aird25]

Hype! I wish him the best, but he didn't exactly cut it in Victoria or Vancouver. Hopefully he puts it all together during his next stint

[Unnamed Trialist]

Just to add: I remember Castellon in top flight, guess that was early 90s. They were actually the big team in that province, also called Castellón, until Villareal emerged. But really Villareal is a smaller city, and a much shoddier city, a few km from Castellon city. It is sort of a thorn in the side of Castellon fans.

I quite like that black and white uniform.

Even in fourth or third tier, they tend to get solid crowds, frequently pushing 15,000. 

[Obinna]

Looks like a solid move. I always felt he had a lot of potential. Downside is that Canada keeps getting deeper, plus we don't play often, and so teams like Uzbekistan could move before we do. 

Makes you wonder (besides money) why we don't run B camps. We do (sometimes) in January, but it's more of a domestic A squad than a B team, if you know what I mean. At least once a year I would like to see a friendly camp to cap tie and integrate players - no A players like Davies, David, etc. Play a minnow on the cheap (at a neutral venue if necessary) and call guys like Habibullah, Dias, the kid at Fulham, etc. Sprinkle in some guys like Kianz Frose and Bustos for a vet presence, guys outside the program but with prior experience. Guys like Zator and Godinho come to mind too. Tabla as well. There's a lot of guys we need to keep integrated (such as Tabla) instead of them being perpetually left out in the cold. Then, it would have the dual purpose of capping duals, which doesn't tie them up but at least it's one foot in the door - better than the status quo. Europe would be a good location, but friendlies are hard to secure with Nations league. Maybe though we can do something outside the window? Other nations have been known to do it. 

It's pie-in-the-sky stuff, but our inactivity at the youth level must be compensated for somehow. 

[InglewoodJack]

Hey, whatever happens to this guy, going to play pro ball in Spain in front of pretty crazy crowds is a good set up. Hope he sticks with them.

[Dominic94]

I think he was a victim of Vanni tbh, he really looked like he belonged in his cameos and I just don’t think he was done justice.

[BearcatSA]

12 minutes ago, Dominic94 said:

I think he was a victim of Vanni tbh, he really looked like he belonged in his cameos and I just don’t think he was done justice.

Yet, with the opportunity to stick it to Vanni with his loan to Pacific, the reports from posters here implied that he disappointed with his performances, so that is the counterpoint. 

 

[footballfreak]

On 8/15/2023 at 9:09 PM, Dominic94 said:

I think he was a victim of Vanni tbh, he really looked like he belonged in his cameos and I just don’t think he was done justice.

The Whitecaps have been overloaded with attacking midfielders, to the point we’ve offloaded Dajome and  Caicedo. The emergence of Ahmed in the centre has created a logjam there as well.

Habibullah just hasn’t shown up consistently enough at the Next Pro level to warrant a spot. 5 goal contributions in 1140 minutes is okay, but doesn’t scream “call up” either. And the last of those contributions was all the way back in May.

[Footyeh]

15 hours ago, footballfreak said:

The Whitecaps have been overloaded with attacking midfielders, to the point we’ve offloaded Dajome and  Caicedo. The emergence of Ahmed in the centre has created a logjam there as well.

Habibullah just hasn’t shown up consistently enough at the Next Pro level to warrant a spot. 5 goal contributions in 1140 minutes is okay, but doesn’t scream “call up” either. And the last of those contributions was all the way back in May.

Did you watch the games or just look at stats?  Despite not having any goals/assists since spring, he was constantly the only one creating chances for the team for the June/July period and still 2nd on the team in goals despite playing far less minutes than the one's everyone is choosing to hype now (Coupland, Ngando etc.).  I recommended people go back and watch those home games at BC Place against Colorado and Portland in the summer and see how reliant they were on him for anything in the final 3rd.  Let's not forget, the one screamed "call up" in Levonte is 24 years old and he was playing a bunch of kids in Next Pro.  If he doesn't warrant a chance in Vanni's 1st team, honestly who in that 2nd team/academy even has a chance?  The quality is at an all time low.

For anyone that's wondering, his loan to Castellon collapsed in the last days of the window.  They've kept him out of the last two MLSNP match days since he's come back from Spain.  I imagine this is the end for him in Vancouver.

Edited September 10, 2023 by Footyeh

[BearcatSA]

1 hour ago, Footyeh said:

If he doesn't warrant a chance in Vanni's 1st team, honestly who in that 2nd team/academy even has a chance?  The quality is at an all time low.

That's right, and that's why you saw four new midseason acquistions for the Next Pro team (one of which being Cancon).  This might be the future trend here for the club under Schuster:  the Next Pro team serves as an extended trial situation for relatively young, new-to-the-club prospects as opposed to committing to them with a first team contract.