Kamron Habibullah

[Aird25]

2 hours ago, Dominic94 said:

They sent Kam to one of the best teams where the had Bustos in his position… how do you send your best prospect to a team where he has to steal minutes from one of the leagues best players on a contending team ?

The repeated the same thing Campagna and except York wasn’t a good team but had a top LB and CB who ate up minutes.

both were bone headed loan choices.

 

Bustos was pretty ineffective last season. Habibullah even more so. Kam saw far more minutes than I think he earned or deserved though. Probably partially because he played numerous positions, but largely because we sold our main attacking threat. I'd guess that minutes were part of the loan agreement though, and I'd question the club if we were to ever take on a similar loan situation again. 

[kacbru]

7 hours ago, Dominic94 said:

Davies doesn’t follow them on socials…

Mike drop...argument over.

[Admiral Murray]

21 hours ago, Dominic94 said:

He was actually good in his cameos, Talent is there. Seems like you’re going by stats.

Lol no.  He was very poor at Pacific. I don't remember a match where he had any kind significant positive influence on the match.  Most of the time he got on the pitch the murmurs in our section would start a few minutes later re: his lack of effort.

[VinceA]

41 minutes ago, Admiral Murray said:

Lol no.  He was very poor at Pacific. I don't remember a match where he had any kind significant positive influence on the match.  Most of the time he got on the pitch the murmurs in our section would start a few minutes later re: his lack of effort.

Yeah this is what really soured me on his potential. He had some speed but for the most part defenders seemed to have no issue stopping him. He also wasn't very effective for the U20s (noticeably so, considering his hype).

He felt like a worse Corbeanu.

Edited September 12, 2023 by VinceA

[Footyeh]

It's absolutely crazy to me that people equate a poor loan with a player being poor.  It's not like there's 1000's of cases of professional players going on loan and it not working out.  Surely our fanbase is more educated than that...

Corbeanu must be shit because he didn't play at Bielefeld.  Marco Bustos must be shit because he hasn't done anything in Sweden.  

[Footyeh]

2 hours ago, VinceA said:

Yeah this is what really soured me on his potential. He had some speed but for the most part defenders seemed to have no issue stopping him. He also wasn't very effective for the U20s (noticeably so, considering his hype).

He felt like a worse Corbeanu.

Would say he's the complete opposite stylistically and speed was never one of his qualities.  On the dribble yes, but he's a playmaker from central positions.  Think even in the U20's, they tried to accommodate him and Catavolo but ultimately went with Catavolo at the 10 and pushed Habibullah to a out and out Wide attacking role.  Can see with VWFC 2 this year, if he plays from the LW, it's too drift in side and play in the pockets.  Some games he even played deeper into Midfield almost as an 8.  Whatever happens with the kid and I hope he can push on, I'll stick by my position that he has/had the most unique profile of all our young talent.  Incredible relationship with the ball, get's out of tight situations, unlocks defences.  Not the profile we develop here in Canada and maybe that's worked against him.

[BearcatSA]

14 hours ago, Footyeh said:

Whatever happens with the kid and I hope he can push on, I'll stick by my position that he has/had the most unique profile of all our young talent.  Incredible relationship with the ball, get's out of tight situations, unlocks defences.  Not the profile we develop here in Canada and maybe that's worked against him.

I hope he puts it all together, too, with a club that is a better fit.

[footballfreak]

On 9/12/2023 at 5:35 PM, Footyeh said:

It's absolutely crazy to me that people equate a poor loan with a player being poor.  It's not like there's 1000's of cases of professional players going on loan and it not working out.  Surely our fanbase is more educated than that...

Corbeanu must be shit because he didn't play at Bielefeld.  Marco Bustos must be shit because he hasn't done anything in Sweden.  

His play has been the same with WFC2. He drifts in and out of games. He relies on his teammates to find him, and pouts if they don’t. He takes a crazy high number of shots for someone who isn’t producing goals. On defence he’s a ghost - I audibly gasped when i saw him track back in one instance. The technical ability is there, but he’s not someone who can be relied on (yet) to be an impact sub at the MLS level.

[Watchmen]

On 9/12/2023 at 5:35 PM, Footyeh said:

It's absolutely crazy to me that people equate a poor loan with a player being poor.  It's not like there's 1000's of cases of professional players going on loan and it not working out.  Surely our fanbase is more educated than that...

Corbeanu must be shit because he didn't play at Bielefeld.  Marco Bustos must be shit because he hasn't done anything in Sweden.  

Surely there can't be 1000's of cases of young players being overhyped and not panning out...

[Watchmen]

Option declined by the Whitecaps. No longer an excuse.  Let's see what he can do.

[narduch]

9 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

Option declined by the Whitecaps. No longer an excuse.  Let's see what he can do.

He is another that goes into the stupid Re-Entry draft

 

 

 

[Watchmen]

4 minutes ago, narduch said:

He is another that goes into the stupid Re-Entry draft

That potentially limits his movement within MLS. It doesn't prevent him from signing a contract anywhere else, unless an MLS team picks up the option. In which case, great. He's under contract for another year in a good league.

[Footyeh]

32 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

Option declined by the Whitecaps. No longer an excuse.  Let's see what he can do.

Genuinely curious about the bolded.  Has it been an excuse on his part that he wasn't given a chance?  I think it's pretty obvious he wasn't given chances.  I'm sure the club wouldn't even deny it.  No one seems to be able to give a good answer to the question, if he was debuted at 16/17, given a few more apps off the bench in that same season and looked bright, why was he never given another chance at older ages?  What's changed from then to now?  He's not become a worse player.  Does the club not have responsibility?  How bad are they that a young player in their environment apparently regressed in two years under their watch when they convinced the player to stay and sign for them?

When you are released at this age without having gotten any chances, other MLS teams will look at that as just another failed young player (without looking into the context of why he didn't play) and most if not all teams will say pass, lets go pick up an older player. 

[Watchmen]

9 minutes ago, Footyeh said:

Genuinely curious about the bolded.  Has it been an excuse on his part that he wasn't given a chance?  I think it's pretty obvious he wasn't given chances.  I'm sure the club wouldn't even deny it.  No one seems to be able to give a good answer to the question, if he was debuted at 16/17, given a few more apps off the bench in that same season and looked bright, why was he never given another chance at older ages?  What's changed from then to now?  He's not become a worse player.  Does the club not have responsibility?  How bad are they that a young player in their environment apparently regressed in two years under their watch when they convinced the player to stay and sign for them?

When you are released at this age without having gotten any chances, other MLS teams will look at that as just another failed young player (without looking into the context of why he didn't play) and most if not all teams will say pass, lets go pick up an older player. 

This is actually a perfect example of what I was getting at - the Whitecaps have always been the reason he hasn't succeeded, never the player. Despite him going to Pacific for a year and showing nothing, the fault continues to be with the Whitecaps. So, now he'll be out of the organization. They won't be "the team holding him back." So, let's see what he can do. Genuinely curious to see how it goes. Best of luck to him.

[Dominic94]

15 minutes ago, Footyeh said:

Genuinely curious about the bolded.  Has it been an excuse on his part that he wasn't given a chance?  I think it's pretty obvious he wasn't given chances.  I'm sure the club wouldn't even deny it.  No one seems to be able to give a good answer to the question, if he was debuted at 16/17, given a few more apps off the bench in that same season and looked bright, why was he never given another chance at older ages?  What's changed from then to now?  He's not become a worse player.  Does the club not have responsibility?  How bad are they that a young player in their environment apparently regressed in two years under their watch when they convinced the player to stay and sign for them?

When you are released at this age without having gotten any chances, other MLS teams will look at that as just another failed young player (without looking into the context of why he didn't play) and most if not all teams will say pass, lets go pick up an older player. 

Vanni got his way.

i watched the cameos and this is a boggling one, he fit in at 16. He literally didn’t get another chance. Sartini ruined his Whitecaps career.

I hope there’s still interest in him for MLS, and maybe someone out there rates him.

[Watchmen]

17 minutes ago, Dominic94 said:

Vanni got his way.

i watched the cameos and this is a boggling one, he fit in at 16. He literally didn’t get another chance. Sartini ruined his Whitecaps career.

I hope there’s still interest in him for MLS, and maybe someone out there rates him.

He played a year at Pacific where he did nothing.

[Dominic94]

29 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

He played a year at Pacific where he did nothing.

He was on a contender and played behind Bustos 

[Watchmen]

24 minutes ago, Dominic94 said:

He was on a contender and played behind Bustos 

Having listened to Pacific fans, that's not why he didn't play.

[CanadaFan123]

1 hour ago, Dominic94 said:

Vanni got his way.

i watched the cameos and this is a boggling one, he fit in at 16. He literally didn’t get another chance. Sartini ruined his Whitecaps career.

I hope there’s still interest in him for MLS, and maybe someone out there rates him.

Sartini is an embarrassment. A camera loving clown. 

[El Hombre]

16 hours ago, Watchmen said:

He played a year at Pacific where he did nothing.

This is an exceptionally flawed way to evaluate talent.  Anyone who has paid any attention to Canadian soccer over the last year has seen umpteen examples of how individual talent is just a small percentage of what it takes to succeed in a given situation:

Lukas MacNaughton went from being the whipping boy on the worst team in MLS to a regular contributor on one of the best.  Did he learn how to play defence on that flight to Nashville?

Cyle Larin went from being less than a bench warmer in Brugge to the hottest thing in La Liga and then back to a bench player.  Is his talent level that sporadic?

Liam Millar went from being a squad player in the Swiss league to an important contributor in the Championship.

Those are just three off the top of my head, I'm sure there are more.  There are so many things that contribute to a player's success other thn raw talent: coaching, tactics, role within a system, surrounding players, confidence etc, that to draw conclusions about a player's quality based on one loan is so fundamentally wrong.

I know it's of utmost importance to tow the VWFC party line on this, but he and Campagna can't be seen as anything other than a failure on the organization.  To cut ties at such a young age is ludicrous.

[VinceA]

21 minutes ago, El Hombre said:

This is an exceptionally flawed way to evaluate talent.  Anyone who has paid any attention to Canadian soccer over the last year has seen umpteen examples of how individual talent is just a small percentage of what it takes to succeed in a given situation:

Lukas MacNaughton went from being the whipping boy on the worst team in MLS to a regular contributor on one of the best.  Did he learn how to play defence on that flight to Nashville?

Cyle Larin went from being less than a bench warmer in Brugge to the hottest thing in La Liga and then back to a bench player.  Is his talent level that sporadic?

Liam Millar went from being a squad player in the Swiss league to an important contributor in the Championship.

Those are just three off the top of my head, I'm sure there are more.  There are so many things that contribute to a player's success other thn raw talent: coaching, tactics, role within a system, surrounding players, confidence etc, that to draw conclusions about a player's quality based on one loan is so fundamentally wrong.

I know it's of utmost importance to tow the VWFC party line on this, but he and Campagna can't be seen as anything other than a failure on the organization.  To cut ties at such a young age is ludicrous.

I do agree that ultimately it is on the Whitecaps (And we've seen how poor they are at developing talent most of the time) but in Habibullah's case it was wild watching him with Pacific and just seeing how ineffective he was when he came up against men.

Some players just aren't very good at making the transition to the pro game, no matter how dominant at youth level. KH could just be one of them.

[Watchmen]

49 minutes ago, El Hombre said:

This is an exceptionally flawed way to evaluate talent.  Anyone who has paid any attention to Canadian soccer over the last year has seen umpteen examples of how individual talent is just a small percentage of what it takes to succeed in a given situation:

Lukas MacNaughton went from being the whipping boy on the worst team in MLS to a regular contributor on one of the best.  Did he learn how to play defence on that flight to Nashville?

Cyle Larin went from being less than a bench warmer in Brugge to the hottest thing in La Liga and then back to a bench player.  Is his talent level that sporadic?

Liam Millar went from being a squad player in the Swiss league to an important contributor in the Championship.

Those are just three off the top of my head, I'm sure there are more.  There are so many things that contribute to a player's success other thn raw talent: coaching, tactics, role within a system, surrounding players, confidence etc, that to draw conclusions about a player's quality based on one loan is so fundamentally wrong.

I know it's of utmost importance to tow the VWFC party line on this, but he and Campagna can't be seen as anything other than a failure on the organization.  To cut ties at such a young age is ludicrous.

All your examples are of players leaving an organization and having success elsewhere.  My example for Habibullah involves him leaving an organization and moving to a league specifically designed to assist in the development of young Canadian talent, and him not having success there either and that organization passing on taking him back.  I've seen a number of comments before (and @VinceA is just the latest) that he couldn't play against men at the CPL level, but somehow it's the Whitecaps fault they then didn't throw him in to their MLS squad against even better opposition.

Honestly, I wish the best for him.  I hope he finds success and carves out a career.  I just don't think it's as likely as others here seem convinced of, and I'm not laying all the blame for that on the Whitecaps.

[Dominic94]

I don’t think Pacific was the right loan choice and that it suited his style. 
 

The caps under mds and vanni are completely different.

[BearcatSA]

Hopefully he can follow the Colyn route.

[El Hombre]

2 hours ago, VinceA said:

I do agree that ultimately it is on the Whitecaps (And we've seen how poor they are at developing talent most of the time) but in Habibullah's case it was wild watching him with Pacific and just seeing how ineffective he was when he came up against men.

Some players just aren't very good at making the transition to the pro game, no matter how dominant at youth level. KH could just be one of them.

The problem though is that this determination has been made for a kid that turned 20 three weeks ago based on one loan as an 18 year-old.  I don't get that.

Look at Richie Laryea: the same "argument" could've been made in 2018 when he was cut from Orlando as a 23 year-old.  Maybe he just couldn't make the transition to the pro game?  Luckily Vanney took a flyer on him (this will be the one and only time you will hear me praise Vanney) and without CanPL at the time, he could've very easily been out of the game at 25.  Or stuck in USL purgatory.  Either way, definitely not at the level he is now.

Habibullah now has to rely on the same luck.  Fortunately, there is CanPL but he definitely faces an uphill climb, much more steep than if he had been developed properly by VWFC and given a chance to succeed after spending 7 years with them.  And those who insist on carrying water for the club will point to any failure in that climb to reaffirm the club's decision, no matter how many times we see this over and over again.