Kamron Habibullah

[Dominic94]

2 hours ago, Footyeh said:

Did you watch the games or just look at stats?  Despite not having any goals/assists since spring, he was constantly the only one creating chances for the team for the June/July period and still 2nd on the team in goals despite playing far less minutes than the one's everyone is choosing to hype now (Coupland, Ngando etc.).  I recommended people go back and watch those home games at BC Place against Colorado and Portland in the summer and see how reliant they were on him for anything in the final 3rd.  Let's not forget, the one screamed "call up" in Levonte is 24 years old and he was playing a bunch of kids in Next Pro.  If he doesn't warrant a chance in Vanni's 1st team, honestly who in that 2nd team/academy even has a chance?  The quality is at an all time low.

For anyone that's wondering, his loan to Castellon collapsed in the last days of the window.  They've kept him out of the last two MLSNP match days since he's come back from Spain.  I imagine this is the end for him in Vancouver.

I would think he finds a move to Europe once his contract is terminated or expires.

the moment he signed with them, I really felt like he would regret it. It sucks that I was right. He would be farther along under mds.

[Footyeh]

4 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

That's right, and that's why you saw four new midseason acquistions for the Next Pro team (one of which being Cancon).  This might be the future trend here for the club under Schuster:  the Next Pro team serves as an extended trial situation for relatively young, new-to-the-club prospects as opposed to committing to them with a first team contract.

 

Most of his acquisitions in the 2nd team haven't been good so far.  The one with a chance I think is Malcom Simmons just because he's the industrial type of midfielder with big physical presence that Axel likes.  I personally look at the entire academy and think, how did the level drop so far from where it was just years ago.  

[BearcatSA]

On 9/10/2023 at 5:35 PM, Footyeh said:

I personally look at the entire academy and think, how did the level drop so far from where it was just years ago.  

I will say one thing:  I cannot believe that this academy has been unable to produce a Lower Mainland born (or arrived here very, very young) and raised player to be a regular squad contributor in the MLS era. Lots of guys from elsewhere in Canada brought in via their trans-Canada academy network, but none from their own backyard.  Baldisimo was not able to translate a squad place into a regular contributor role but has sincr been able to land in SJ for at least one season (though in a not dissimilar situation as Vancouver), while Metcalfe was released after about a year and looks to be a lower Euro league, lower division journeyman.  And so far, that's it, I believe.

Edited September 12, 2023 by BearcatSA

[Watchmen]

3 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

I will say one thing:  I cannot believe that this academy has been able to produce a Lower Mainland born (or arrived here very, very young) and raised player to be a regular squad contributor in the MLS era. Lots of guys from elsewhere in Canada brought in via their trans-Canada academy network, but none from their own backyard.  Baldisimo was not able to translate a squad place into a regular contributor role but has sincr been able to land in SJ for at least one season (though in a not dissimilsr sitatuation as Vancouver(, while Metcalfe was released after about a year and looks to be a lower Euro league, lower division journeyman.  And so far, that's it, I believe.

I have said before and I will continue to say, BC Soccer is a mess. The Whitecaps usually take the PR hit for it, but it's not like players are coming out of BC and the Whitecaps are just missing on them.

[Big_M]

clearly needs a change...go to uzbekistan and play some d1 and maybe even asian champions league and go from there

[dyslexic nam]

2 minutes ago, Big_M said:

clearly needs a change...go to uzbekistan and play some d1 and maybe even asian champions league and go from there

Not sure encouraging dual Nats to go back to their ancestral homeland for domestic footy opportunities is out best recruitment plan.  Would much rather see him strengthen ties by pursuing a more productive North American pathway - or at least some neutral European option.  

Edited September 11, 2023 by dyslexic nam

[Big_M]

aint no recruitment plan...hes not good enough for mls and was bad in cpl...its an idea to do something more interesting having already played in three north american leagues and not going anywhere

[Watchmen]

27 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

Not sure encouraging dual Nats to go back to their ancestral homeland for domestic footy opportunities is out best recruitment plan.  Would much rather see him strengthen ties by pursuing a more productive North American pathway - or at least some neutral European option.  

So you're saying Switzerland?

[Dominic94]

2 hours ago, Big_M said:

aint no recruitment plan...hes not good enough for mls and was bad in cpl...its an idea to do something more interesting having already played in three north american leagues and not going anywhere

He was actually good in his cameos, Talent is there. Seems like you’re going by stats.

[Footyeh]

7 hours ago, Watchmen said:

I have said before and I will continue to say, BC Soccer is a mess. The Whitecaps usually take the PR hit for it, but it's not like players are coming out of BC and the Whitecaps are just missing on them.

BC Soccer is a mess for sure, but Whitecaps runs the show.  They have a monopoly on the market and the biggest Academy infrastructure in the whole country and still are terrible at scouting their own backyard.  The best youth player in the province at the moment is TJ Tahid, Whitecaps first did not deem him good enough for a trial with residency and then once brought in for training last season still did not rate him.  James Cameron at VFC has gone on to play more minutes in the CPL this season than all but 1 player in the entire 2005 age group that Whitecaps had.  

There's a few young 2009's that they missed completely from BCSPL who have now signed with very reputable academies in Europe.  

Even apart from recruitment/identification, the club is just so piss poor when it comes to player relations.  How many players who signed Homegrown's walk away with anything good to say about the club/staff.  I mean, not even Alphonso endorses them.

[Aird25]

31 minutes ago, Footyeh said:

BC Soccer is a mess for sure, but Whitecaps runs the show.  They have a monopoly on the market and the biggest Academy infrastructure in the whole country and still are terrible at scouting their own backyard.  The best youth player in the province at the moment is TJ Tahid, Whitecaps first did not deem him good enough for a trial with residency and then once brought in for training last season still did not rate him.  James Cameron at VFC has gone on to play more minutes in the CPL this season than all but 1 player in the entire 2005 age group that Whitecaps had.  

There's a few young 2009's that they missed completely from BCSPL who have now signed with very reputable academies in Europe.  

Even apart from recruitment/identification, the club is just so piss poor when it comes to player relations.  How many players who signed Homegrown's walk away with anything good to say about the club/staff.  I mean, not even Alphonso endorses them.

Waterman, Alghamdi, and Sean Young were all missed as well. 

[Watchmen]

48 minutes ago, Footyeh said:

BC Soccer is a mess for sure, but Whitecaps runs the show.  They have a monopoly on the market and the biggest Academy infrastructure in the whole country and still are terrible at scouting their own backyard.  The best youth player in the province at the moment is TJ Tahid, Whitecaps first did not deem him good enough for a trial with residency and then once brought in for training last season still did not rate him.  James Cameron at VFC has gone on to play more minutes in the CPL this season than all but 1 player in the entire 2005 age group that Whitecaps had.  

For the longest time, all I heard about was that the Whitecaps Academy was ruining players. "Just wait until there's competition". Then Pacific came along, and a number of players jumped, and then those players really didn't amount to much.  Kadin Chung? "Future national team player" I was told by more than one person.  Got a second chance with TFC eventually, and now he's back in the CPL.  "Callum Irving was smart not to sign with the Whitecaps after college.  Now he'll have plenty of chances." Undrafted, career USL/CPL player.  It's great James Cameron is in the CPL.  Good for him.  Let's see where he goes.  As for Tahid, it seems that the Whitecaps did rate him but he disagreed with their development pathway.  That's fine.  He had another option.  But that doesn't mean they missed on him.

48 minutes ago, Footyeh said:

There's a few young 2009's that they missed completely from BCSPL who have now signed with very reputable academies in Europe.  

Did they miss, or did the players opt for a different path?  If you're making the argument the Whitecaps path isn't a good one, then this is going to start happening.  It's certainly on the Whitecaps to figure it out, but it doesn't mean they missed on someone.

48 minutes ago, Footyeh said:

Even apart from recruitment/identification, the club is just so piss poor when it comes to player relations.  How many players who signed Homegrown's walk away with anything good to say about the club/staff.  I mean, not even Alphonso endorses them.

Under Lenarduzzi/Anderson/Lewis?  Awful, but that was across the entire organization and not just the academy.  Under Schuster?  Seems much improved.  Adekugbe just returned to the club after parting on awful terms.  And I'm not sure what you mean by "Alphonso doesn't endorse them".  He plays in Munich and his family is in Edmonton.  I wouldn't expect him to be back often, but he has made appearances since departing the club.

Edit: I guess to briefly summarize my thought process: if the reputation of the club is that they don't develop talent, then the best players aren't going to opt in to their program.  This means the players they do recruit aren't the best ones, making it even less likely for them to produce quality players.  And if the best players aren't going through their program, then it's not their fault BC isn't producing players, but I suspect they're still going to take the PR hit for the problem.

Edited September 12, 2023 by Watchmen

[Dominic94]

8 hours ago, Watchmen said:

For the longest time, all I heard about was that the Whitecaps Academy was ruining players. "Just wait until there's competition". Then Pacific came along, and a number of players jumped, and then those players really didn't amount to much.  Kadin Chung? "Future national team player" I was told by more than one person.  Got a second chance with TFC eventually, and now he's back in the CPL.  "Callum Irving was smart not to sign with the Whitecaps after college.  Now he'll have plenty of chances." Undrafted, career USL/CPL player.  It's great James Cameron is in the CPL.  Good for him.  Let's see where he goes.  As for Tahid, it seems that the Whitecaps did rate him but he disagreed with their development pathway.  That's fine.  He had another option.  But that doesn't mean they missed on him.

Did they miss, or did the players opt for a different path?  If you're making the argument the Whitecaps path isn't a good one, then this is going to start happening.  It's certainly on the Whitecaps to figure it out, but it doesn't mean they missed on someone.

Under Lenarduzzi/Anderson/Lewis?  Awful, but that was across the entire organization and not just the academy.  Under Schuster?  Seems much improved.  Adekugbe just returned to the club after parting on awful terms.  And I'm not sure what you mean by "Alphonso doesn't endorse them".  He plays in Munich and his family is in Edmonton.  I wouldn't expect him to be back often, but he has made appearances since departing the club.

Edit: I guess to briefly summarize my thought process: if the reputation of the club is that they don't develop talent, then the best players aren't going to opt in to their program.  This means the players they do recruit aren't the best ones, making it even less likely for them to produce quality players.  And if the best players aren't going through their program, then it's not their fault BC isn't producing players, but I suspect they're still going to take the PR hit for the problem.

They’ve ruined:

 

Colyn

Pecile

Campagna

Habibullah

 

and gave little chances to Baldi, Adekugbe and Bustos.

They literally rejected the chance to sign Tahid and blocked him from the national team because he wasn’t part of their academy. Red Bull rates the kid and the whitecaps don’t it makes no sense…

Davies doesn’t follow them on socials…

[InglewoodJack]

41 minutes ago, Dominic94 said:

They’ve ruined:

 

Colyn

Pecile

Campagna

Habibullah

 

and gave little chances to Baldi, Adekugbe and Bustos.

They literally rejected the chance to sign Tahid and blocked him from the national team because he wasn’t part of their academy. Red Bull rates the kid and the whitecaps don’t it makes no sense…

Davies doesn’t follow them on socials…

How did they ruin Colyn and Pecile? One went to PSV and the other went to Venezia. What they did once they got there is on them. At least Colyn looks like he had a bright future. 

[Watchmen]

1 hour ago, Dominic94 said:

They’ve ruined:

 

Colyn

Pecile

Campagna

Habibullah

 

and gave little chances to Baldi, Adekugbe and Bustos.

They literally rejected the chance to sign Tahid and blocked him from the national team because he wasn’t part of their academy. Red Bull rates the kid and the whitecaps don’t it makes no sense…

Davies doesn’t follow them on socials…

They have Baldi a ton of chances. 

Habibullah spent a year at Pacific, so please make sure to include them in his failed development.

Campagna got loaned to York, so please make sure to include them in his failed development pathway as well.

[Dominic94]

30 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

How did they ruin Colyn and Pecile? One went to PSV and the other went to Venezia. What they did once they got there is on them. At least Colyn looks like he had a bright future. 

They signed them and sat them on the bench, they had 0 plan for them other than stopping them from going to Europe, same with Habibullah.

it makes 0 sense that all their high end guys aren’t developing, it can’t be that every one of them isn’t good enough or not getting it done. It’s on the club at this point.

[InglewoodJack]

5 minutes ago, Dominic94 said:

They signed them and sat them on the bench, they had 0 plan for them other than stopping them from going to Europe, same with Habibullah.

it makes 0 sense that all their high end guys aren’t developing, it can’t be that every one of them isn’t good enough or not getting it done. It’s on the club at this point.

They eventually did make it to Europe pretty young though. I guess I sympathize with our Canadian MLS teams needing to balance development with actually being competitive and growing a domestic market. Montreal did the same thing with Kone- they signed him because Brugge wanted him and they swooped in at the last minute. He came out of nowhere and took a starting spot which was unexpected, but there’s a world in which he just rides the bench, is currently playing in the USL and makes the jump to Montreal next year. That’s what’s happening with Zouhir currently. 

That said, yeah, it is strange at how little talent is coming out of the west coast recently- it has to be something, because it seems like pretty much any former European prospect that finds their way back to MLS ends up in Vancouver even though Montreal would probably give them an opportunity and TFC would at the very least trade them to a US team and have those clubs develop them. 

[Dominic94]

1 minute ago, Watchmen said:

They have Baldi a ton of chances. 

Habibullah spent a year at Pacific, so please make sure to include them in his failed development.

Campagna got loaned to York, so please make sure to include them in his failed development pathway as well.

They sent Kam to one of the best teams where the had Bustos in his position… how do you send your best prospect to a team where he has to steal minutes from one of the leagues best players on a contending team ?

The repeated the same thing Campagna and except York wasn’t a good team but had a top LB and CB who ate up minutes.

both were bone headed loan choices.

 

[Dominic94]

30 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

They eventually did make it to Europe pretty young though. I guess I sympathize with our Canadian MLS teams needing to balance development with actually being competitive and growing a domestic market. Montreal did the same thing with Kone- they signed him because Brugge wanted him and they swooped in at the last minute. He came out of nowhere and took a starting spot which was unexpected, but there’s a world in which he just rides the bench, is currently playing in the USL and makes the jump to Montreal next year. That’s what’s happening with Zouhir currently. 

That said, yeah, it is strange at how little talent is coming out of the west coast recently- it has to be something, because it seems like pretty much any former European prospect that finds their way back to MLS ends up in Vancouver even though Montreal would probably give them an opportunity and TFC would at the very least trade them to a US team and have those clubs develop them. 

There hasn’t been a plan really at any can club for the youth until montreal 2 years ago and Toronto intends too, but what about Vancouver ?

 

all 3 clubs can produce more talent, and really should have by now. 

[Watchmen]

22 minutes ago, Dominic94 said:

They sent Kam to one of the best teams where the had Bustos in his position… how do you send your best prospect to a team where he has to steal minutes from one of the leagues best players on a contending team ?

The repeated the same thing Campagna and except York wasn’t a good team but had a top LB and CB who ate up minutes.

both were bone headed loan choices.

 

You can only loan players to teams interested in taking them, and this kind of logic never seems to apply to the Whitecaps (ie there's a better player ahead of them).

But really, I'll defer mostly to what Pacific fans who watched him said: he wasn't good enough. Which is fine, but if a CPL squad is saying he isn't good enough then it's hard to say he deserves a spot on an MLS roster.

[Dominic94]

1 hour ago, Watchmen said:

You can only loan players to teams interested in taking them, and this kind of logic never seems to apply to the Whitecaps (ie there's a better player ahead of them).

But really, I'll defer mostly to what Pacific fans who watched him said: he wasn't good enough. Which is fine, but if a CPL squad is saying he isn't good enough then it's hard to say he deserves a spot on an MLS roster.

A better choice could have been made.

 

he was great in his mls cameos, he didn’t stop being good all of a sudden.

[InglewoodJack]

1 hour ago, Dominic94 said:

There hasn’t been a plan really at any can club for the youth until montreal 2 years ago and Toronto intends too, but what about Vancouver ?

 

all 3 clubs can produce more talent, and really should have by now. 

Realistically (honest question- I don't know the answer), how do these teams compare to your typical US MLS academy, especially when you exclude all of the south american talent that flocks to certain teams? Philly Union is a team that has produced serious local talent, but for your typical MLS academy, is the expectation for teams to produce several european quality players yearly? Even one european player yearly? The issue is more glaring in Canada because we technically only have 3 top tier teams in the country, but historically speaking, all 3 MLS teams produce at least one national team player every few years which I think is on par with all MLS teams.

Looking at the USMNT, most of their players are European dual nationals or went to Europe very young, but for those that developed in the US, I'm seeing a couple who came up through MLS, and a similar amount that came up through USL. Not saying that our 3 clubs can't improve their academies, but if there's going to be an influx of development, it'll come from the CPL (And from dual nationals training in Europe), not just from the 3 academies pumping out all this talent. If, for example, Jayden Nelson, JMR, Kosi Thompson, Kobe Franklin, Lazar Stefanovic, Hugo Mbongue, Deandre Kerr all pan out, or even if 4 or 5 of them do, TFC would probably have one of the best developmental pipelines in all of North America. You add Kone, Saliba, Sirois, Ali Ahmed, Simon Colyn, and the rest of VFC's former european prospects in the pipeline, and even if half of those guys become good players in Europe, that'll be an extremely impressive pipeline based on 3 teams.

I think the issue is more opportunities for our players, more so than pumping out more players from the 3 MLS academies. Not that the 3 teams can't improve, but your typical club can only develop so many good players.

[Dominic94]

1 minute ago, InglewoodJack said:

Realistically (honest question- I don't know the answer), how do these teams compare to your typical US MLS academy, especially when you exclude all of the south american talent that flocks to certain teams? Philly Union is a team that has produced serious local talent, but for your typical MLS academy, is the expectation for teams to produce several european quality players yearly? Even one european player yearly? The issue is more glaring in Canada because we technically only have 3 top tier teams in the country, but historically speaking, all 3 MLS teams produce at least one national team player every few years which I think is on par with all MLS teams.

Looking at the USMNT, most of their players are European dual nationals or went to Europe very young, but for those that developed in the US, I'm seeing a couple who came up through MLS, and a similar amount that came up through USL. Not saying that our 3 clubs can't improve their academies, but if there's going to be an influx of development, it'll come from the CPL (And from dual nationals training in Europe), not just from the 3 academies pumping out all this talent. If, for example, Jayden Nelson, JMR, Kosi Thompson, Kobe Franklin, Lazar Stefanovic, Hugo Mbongue, Deandre Kerr all pan out, or even if 4 or 5 of them do, TFC would probably have one of the best developmental pipelines in all of North America. You add Kone, Saliba, Sirois, Ali Ahmed, Simon Colyn, and the rest of VFC's former european prospects in the pipeline, and even if half of those guys become good players in Europe, that'll be an extremely impressive pipeline based on 3 teams.

I think the issue is more opportunities for our players, more so than pumping out more players from the 3 MLS academies. Not that the 3 teams can't improve, but your typical club can only develop so many good players.

This is a great question.

 

for me, I really, a player transferred every year is possible, but is it a step up ? That’s very hard to do.

i think, what is most attainable is producing squad level depth payers every year, or 2 years, and every 2-3 a good regular, theres no reason why the best 2-3 players can’t come from the academy. 

[Watchmen]

7 minutes ago, Dominic94 said:

This is a great question.

 

for me, I really, a player transferred every year is possible, but is it a step up ? That’s very hard to do.

i think, what is most attainable is producing squad level depth payers every year, or 2 years, and every 2-3 a good regular, theres no reason why the best 2-3 players can’t come from the academy. 

But I don't want my best 2-3 players coming from my academy - I want them moving on to Europe.

[InglewoodJack]

2 minutes ago, Dominic94 said:

This is a great question.

 

for me, I really, a player transferred every year is possible, but is it a step up ? That’s very hard to do.

i think, what is most attainable is producing squad level depth payers every year, or 2 years, and every 2-3 a good regular, theres no reason why the best 2-3 players can’t come from the academy. 

I think this is realistic, but I don't know if the 2-3 best players on any team- MLS or the national team, coming from academies will be attainable at least until Canada has a fleshed out multi-tier soccer pyramid where the very best players move up the system and land at MLS academies as more refined products than they do today.

I think, and this sounds silly and obvious, that this issue would be a lot less glaring if any of the 3 teams was able to produce a single top tier, quasi-Davies level talent at some point since Davies went to Germany. Kone might eventually get there, but I think if JMR had ultimately gone and performed at Liverpool when there was interest, we'd probably be sitting happy with our developmental pipeline. Vancouver sends Davies to Bayern, Toronto sends JMR to Liverpool, and Montreal sends Kone to Udinese (eventually). All in the span of around 5-6 years. I think that would be an excellent generation coming from MLS.