Saskatoon CanPL

[narduch]

 

 

[toontownman]

Done and dusted. Maybe Regina has a team down the line. It's a never for Saskatoon in our lifetimes.

 

 

[Big_M]

said it over and over: it was never gonna happen with the demands of alan simpson

[Watchmen]

Damn

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

The way Joe Belan was cut out of the action in Saskatoon was a major red flag. One of the few people linked with the CanPL project pre-launch with both business and soccer experience and rumoured to be very much at loggerheads with Bob Young and Scott Mitchell behind the scenes on how it should be configured. 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

https://saskatoon.ctvnews.ca/plans-for-saskatoon-pro-soccer-team-put-on-ice-1.6548625

..."With ventures of this magnitude, it is important to adjust to constantly changing economic factors," Prairieland Park CEO Dan Kemppainen said in the news release.

"As we progressed with the project plans, we have had to make the decision to attend to competing financial priorities."...

[Soccerpro2]

It was stupid of the CPL to announce this “expansion team”. It was a bad idea at the time and even dumber now.

[Watchmen]

30 minutes ago, Soccerpro2 said:

It was stupid of the CPL to announce this “expansion team”. It was a bad idea at the time and even dumber now.

Why?

[Cblake]

16 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

Why?

Because it does not look at when you have to walk it back, I get the idea behind why they would conditionally award it, but I hope they have learned their lesson here. They are still in the same boat with Windsor too. I still do not think the longer learn health of the CPL is completely known at this point. I have my doubts about how many groups/markets are out there really to take the risks. Now the climate could change but we can not forget, Ottawa is the only expansion team launched and it had very unique circumstances behind it that saw the deal come together very quickly. 

[Kingston]

Without being pro or anti on how good a CPL market Saskatoon might be, the problem with this bid was always that the would-be owners wanted the city to put up the money.  It wasn't so much an ownership bid as a "if you build us a $20 million stadium, we'll give it a try" bid.  Had they gone the Halifax route and funded their own modest stadium, the team would be playing now.

[rydermike]

Raise your hand if you're surprised.

Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

[Watchmen]

33 minutes ago, Cblake said:

Because it does not look at when you have to walk it back, I get the idea behind why they would conditionally award it, but I hope they have learned their lesson here. They are still in the same boat with Windsor too. I still do not think the longer learn health of the CPL is completely known at this point. I have my doubts about how many groups/markets are out there really to take the risks. Now the climate could change but we can not forget, Ottawa is the only expansion team launched and it had very unique circumstances behind it that saw the deal come together very quickly. 

I guess I assumed the CPL announced it while having a better grasp on the situation. As @Kingston says, this probably gets down if ownership at least contributes something to the stadium project. 

FYI, Langley also got an expansion team.

[toontownman]

12 minutes ago, Kingston said:

Without being pro or anti on how good a CPL market Saskatoon might be, the problem with this bid was always that the would-be owners wanted the city to put up the money.  It wasn't so much an ownership bid as a "if you build us a $20 million stadium, we'll give it a try" bid.  Had they gone the Halifax route and funded their own modest stadium, the team would be playing now.

There were lots of red flags and disaapointing parts of this throughout. IIRC Living Sky sports and Prairieland were putting in a quarter of the amount and asking for another quarter from the city (considering it was committed to over 85% public use that is fair), a quarter from the province and then a federal grant for the rest. It was dominoes though, the city grant had to come before taking it to the province and federally. 

These projects shouldn't be solely funded by ownership imo, regardless of who the ownership is and how rich it is they should have the city buying into it as it serves the city and the people that live with it. The city wanted it domed for year round use (extra cost) and used for pickleball and othersports (which was always the plan - 85% community use). The degree of how much they were asking the city for was too much though for a city millions in debt and in the red. It was a non starter imo and unbalanced.

The Belan lawsuit certainly won't have helped, alongside. The wording is certainly "its not goodbye its see you later" but I think we would need an influx of ownership dollars from elsewhere to make the ask for the city much more minimal. Maybe a project 8 team and separate ownership could reignite things. Not convinced the mythical minted ownership is out there and interested in investing in a Saskatchewan team.

Unfortunately like most that had got involved in the near 10 year process of this and building up fan/public support, it's becoming once bitten twice shy and I fear apathy as far as any future CPL talks are involved. 

Maybe hope lies in a different path to the pro game and a league one with teams in Saskatchewan included. Fingers crossed.

Regardless of ownership the loss of the stadium is massive. There could have feasibly been a project 8 team and CPL team using it. 

[shermanator]

Saskatoon is a great example of an ownership group that has talked a big game and simply wouldn't back it up with their wallets. It's one thing to claim you want a club to come to <insert city here> but it's another thing to actually build the infrastructure and get the club off the ground.

To quote the late DMX, talk is cheap motherfucker.

It's a shame because Saskatoon drew 3000 people to a friendly between Calgary Foothills and the SK Selects back in 2019. I do think pro soccer in Saskatoon could be amazing but like any expansion market, you need owners willing to invest their money and a suitable stadium. Saskatoon had neither.

I've heard rumblings that League1 Prairies may legitimately get off the ground in the next couple years and if so, Saskatoon will have a club. They will far and away support that club better than any other League1 club in this country, not that it's a huge bar. Perhaps that will give someone with lots of money and more balls to actually spend the money to get pro soccer off the ground. Wouldn't hold my breath though.

[SpursFlu]

Watching the CFL game right now and has anyone else noticed that if you packed a decent amount of people in it, Mosaic stadium would be the best soccer stadium in the Country 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

 

[Ansem]

The 1 thing I always disliked about this bid was Simpson getting the exclusive territorial rights over all of Saskatchewan. Yes, that's the end of this bid but this means Regina could be the new focus and with an existing stadium, this could be an easier project to pull off.

I think Saskatoon will end up getting a League 1 Prairies club which will be working with the CPL Regina club

 

[Unnamed Trialist]

12 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

Watching the CFL game right now and has anyone else noticed that if you packed a decent amount of people in it, Mosaic stadium would be the best soccer stadium in the Country 

Mosaic Stadium isn't bad at all, said the Valencia CF account before their 2017 match against Cosmos.

[SpursFlu]

Just now, Unnamed Trialist said:

Mosaic Stadium isn't bad at all, said the Valencia CF account before their 2017 match against Cosmos.

The elevated stand behind one of the goals would be amazing

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

19 hours ago, Kingston said:

...It wasn't so much an ownership bid as a "if you build us a $20 million stadium, we'll give it a try" bid.  Had they gone the Halifax route and funded their own modest stadium, the team would be playing now.

Joe Belan tried to get the city council interested in providing land at an old railyard at the northern end of Saskatoon's downtown for an expandable modular stadium but they didn't go along with it:

https://thestarphoenix.com/sports/local-sports/groups-pro-soccer-push-includes-downtown-stadium-for-saskatoon

...Belan said his soccer vision requires no financial impact on taxpayers, although his initial proposal does involve the city donating land for the stadium at the site of the current city yards.

In the meantime, he is ready to play games at the Prairieland Park grandstand until the new stadium can be constructed downtown. He estimates it would take nine to 10 months to build the new stadium, and he envisions playing games at Prairieland in 2019 and 2020 before moving into a new facility in 2021, he said...

It's not clear why later on once Belan had been cut of the picture the whole thing became contingent on a level of public sector funding for the proposed Prairieland stadium that always looked extremely optimistic.

[SpursFlu]

I think it would be really cool to see a team at Mosaic. Who owns the Roughriders? Community owned?

[Cblake]

23 hours ago, Watchmen said:

I guess I assumed the CPL announced it while having a better grasp on the situation. As @Kingston says, this probably gets down if ownership at least contributes something to the stadium project. 

FYI, Langley also got an expansion team.

When I looked at the number eight, completely forgot when I wrote my first post that Edmonton folded and Vancouver came in, still they league has grown by only one team. While the pandemic has played a major part in the lack of growth early on, Canada is not the easiest place to get pro sports facilities built. Hamilton had all sorts of issues getting what become Tim Horton's Field even with public money in place due to the Pan-Am games. We have to wait and get a true feel on how much the CSB money has propped up the league, depending on who you listen to , it could be a alot.

Plus we have to wait and see what happens with York? Lots of moving parts here. 

[toontownman]

7 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Joe Belan tried to get the city council interested in providing land at an old railyard at the northern end of Saskatoon's downtown for an expandable modular stadium but they didn't go along with it:

https://thestarphoenix.com/sports/local-sports/groups-pro-soccer-push-includes-downtown-stadium-for-saskatoon

...Belan said his soccer vision requires no financial impact on taxpayers, although his initial proposal does involve the city donating land for the stadium at the site of the current city yards.

In the meantime, he is ready to play games at the Prairieland Park grandstand until the new stadium can be constructed downtown. He estimates it would take nine to 10 months to build the new stadium, and he envisions playing games at Prairieland in 2019 and 2020 before moving into a new facility in 2021, he said...

It's not clear why later on once Belan had been cut of the picture the whole thing became contingent on a level of public sector funding for the proposed Prairieland stadium that always looked extremely optimistic.

City Yards was a no go for a number of reasons. Mainly moving everything that is there and working out where it would all go, then there are environmental concerns with the land and oil and god knows what else was put in there. That takes years to be left before anything can happen on it. It is similar in Regina where LSSE ironically were looking at a Baseball stadium as one potential site. Ironically from the time it was first mentioned to now we are half way along that timeline it was said to take to clear the land. As far as I know they haven't moved anything from there or done anything with it. As the article mentions donating the land was probably never on the table. Its value could have been close to the stadium build. The city just spent 17m on buying land around the proposed downtown area site. Leasing it would have been more likely if anything. That wasn't the demand though and long term that downtown 

With what changed, I think only PL and Al Simpson could tell you. The club ownership model and Prairieland going a bit bigger with their aspirations, maybe less money behind the project with the previous two partners out. Maybe because its City owned and leased land. Thats complete conjecture, probably like most of my post lol 

[toontownman]

5 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

I think it would be really cool to see a team at Mosaic. Who owns the Roughriders? Community owned?

Yes its non profit, community owned. I agree and while there are cautionary tales with how Winnipeg handle things, Ottawa and to a point Forge do ok in bigger stadiums. A big part is down to how much money the ownership is fronting, especially on outreach and promotion. People in Sask would support and come out to support it. 

I prefer the start smaller and fill the ground approach but smarter camera angles and positioning of fans (almost half the league still suffer from that) just gives a better perception for anyone catching games on tv or highlights/promo packages to draw them in. It seems a no brainer for Roughriders to have more going on there. They do have it used for other sports and events though. It depends how much it costs to staff it too I guess. The biggest problem with Mosaic is that they have sewn in all of the CFL lines to the turf. It is a great stadium though, I would love to see a Canada mens or womens friendly there eventually. 

[SoccMan]

9 hours ago, toontownman said:

Yes its non profit, community owned. I agree and while there are cautionary tales with how Winnipeg handle things, Ottawa and to a point Forge do ok in bigger stadiums. A big part is down to how much money the ownership is fronting, especially on outreach and promotion. People in Sask would support and come out to support it. 

I prefer the start smaller and fill the ground approach but smarter camera angles and positioning of fans (almost half the league still suffer from that) just gives a better perception for anyone catching games on tv or highlights/promo packages to draw them in. It seems a no brainer for Roughriders to have more going on there. They do have it used for other sports and events though. It depends how much it costs to staff it too I guess. The biggest problem with Mosaic is that they have sewn in all of the CFL lines to the turf. It is a great stadium though, I would love to see a Canada mens or womens friendly there eventually. 

Just goes to show that soccer was never in the equation for the people making decisions on that stadium when you sew permanent football lines into the turf . I guess no one ever thought of maybe one day hosting national team games there of both the women and men’s team ? Moreover, hosting some club friendlies there ? Furthermore, let’s remember you are building a stadium for a team that plays maybe 10 home games on average a year and need other events to make it profitable and you put permanent lines on the turf . Maybe they just assumed they could have soccer at the stadium even with football lines , probably dealing with people who have no clue about the sport at the national team level or pro level .