Herdman new head coach

[Gopherbashi]

20 minutes ago, ob1 said:

I have a very close friend who knows a guy from his work, who was talking to someone on the bus who has an unnamed source with inside knowledge, that Herdman once refused to help an old lady cross the road.

Swine, fu**king swine

Christine Sinclair is perfectly capable of making her own way across the street, thank you very much.

[Grizzly]

11 hours ago, Kent said:

Is this what to expect going forward? People are going to criticize Herdman for writing a letter? I get the feeling people are going to jump all over him even if he gets outstanding results.

If he gets outstanding results he will obviously win people around but otherwise I think people will be very skeptical and critical of him and that is par for the course when a change like this is made in such a manner with someone who seemed to being doing a good job being replaced suddenly in a non-professional manner with no open candidate search by someone on the face of it does not seem particularly qualified for the job. If mere soccer fans are skeptical about Herdman imagine what the professional players some of whom have and are playing for top level coaches think.

Herdman needs to be given a chance but even for a good coach this is a bad situation to be in in which he needs to get some results quickly to convince the skeptics. It reminds me a lot of the Mitchell hiring when he went into the job on a bad note after the poor U20 World Cup. People forget that he initially had good results and had the team playing nice football. We had a decent friendly record, had an impressive showing against Brazil and convincingly beat up on a minnow in our first round. We played very well against Jamaica and should have won the game but a keeper error cost us the 3 points. Then we totally outplayed Honduras in the first half in Montreal but they injured our best player on a play that should have been a red card and penalty and things went south in the second half under a lot of factors in particular a very biased ref. The flubbed goal and bad ref were not Mitchell's fault but then certain players on the team turned against him and the qualifying campaign went south. There were some players like Stalteri and Bernier who gave 100% and were team players no matter who the coach was but others like DeRo and Brennan quit the team. One hopes that our current team is full of players like Stalteri and Bernier but often that is not the case. A few bad results and things could go really bad. 

The other thing that bothers me is that the CSA seems to be going once again to the usual habit of hiring people they know and like instead of the best qualified coach they can get. Hiring top coaches won't always produce the desired result and not every good coach will be a good fit for our team but nevertheless it will produce a much higher probability of success and also good coaches give their players a lot of knowledge they can use in their future career. Maybe Floro was not the perfect fit for our team but still I remember most of the players comments after he left were that they learned a lot from him whereas most of them said after Hart that they liked him a lot as a person. This just seems to me to be a hiring very much in the vein of Yallop, Mitchell and Hart as opposed to Ossieck and Floro. As fans we need to take the Stalteri and Bernier position of always cheering 100% for our team but if things don't work out then we need to do our best to demand reform in the CSA after a hire like this. Eventually one of their underqualified coach hirings is going to work out just based on percentages and we can only hope that Herdman is the one that does and the CSA confidence in his abilities is not erroneous.

[The Ref]

For a coach writing a letter of introduction to the players I find it a bit unprofessional.  I wonder if he included a photo of himself too.  It is the country's federation president who introduces a new coach to the players at their first get together.  Are we going to see coaching by correspondance with this guy Herdman. 

[dbailey62]

5 minutes ago, The Ref said:

For a coach writing a letter of introduction to the players I find it a bit unprofessional.  I wonder if he included a photo of himself too.  It is the country's federation president who introduces a new coach to the players at their first get together.  Are we going to see coaching by correspondance with this guy Herdman. 

Oh come on. There's silliness for fun and then there's inanity. 

When are the players next being gathered? If it's months, do we wait until then with no contact between coach and players? That truly would be inappropriate. 

There is a difference between valid criticisms and cheap shots (your comments re the picture and correspondence). If you were trying to be funny, you failed!

[Bison44]

I can just hear it now, people complaining about how Herdman hasnt contacted the players yet.  A letter seems a little fishy, calls would be better I guess, but I think this kind of stuff is the least of our worries.  Let him do his thing.  As for supporting the team, that has to be #1 for me as a fan.  The coaches all the way back to Holger havnt been really exciting for me at least.  Most of them I am either neutral or a bit negative.  Herdman is the first that I'm actually pissed about, but I hope the program improves (long term) and he leads them to some sort of success on the pitch as well.  Short term, lets win some games against minnows in the new CONCACAF league.  

[toontownman]

On the upside he could have taken the England job and we could have got Phil Neville.

Hate the appointment or not this has been one the best talking topics for years. 

He won't be lacking any motivation to prove doubters wrong!

[dbailey62]

40 minutes ago, toontownman said:

On the upside he could have taken the England job and we could have got Phil Neville.

Hate the appointment or not this has been one the best talking topics for years. 

He won't be lacking any motivation to prove doubters wrong!

Phil Neville. Could that tweet have been any more stupid?

[kacbru]

It is time to move on past the letter.... and start to ask how it was delivered.  Was it faxed or by Canada Post?

[ted]

On 1/22/2018 at 10:09 PM, dsqpr said:

Why stop there? What is so special about the hex that is not special about the World Cup Group stage? Or the World Cup Knock out stage? Or the World Cup QF/SF/F?

Anything less than lifting the golden trophy is FAILURE and the coach should be fired immediately!

HUH?!? You are going to argue that we should keep a coach who can't get us to the hex?!?! You are entitled to your opinion but I see no benefit to keeping a coach who cannot meet that minimum standard.

As to your silly hyperbole, are they not ALL up for review after the end of the tournament? Pretty bog standard stuff really in this day and age of short-term coaching gigs. To have a non-cup-winning coach return for the next cycle is something special rather than the norm I think in 2018.

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, dbailey62 said:

Phil Neville. Could that tweet have been any more stupid?

Double standard?

"The backlash forced Neville to delete his Twitter account, and issue an apology on Wednesday. 

In response to Neville's appointment, the organisation Kick It Out issued a statement expressing "serious concerns over a recruitment process that has resulted in the appointment of someone with no record of management or experience in women's football."

Edited January 24, 2018 by Obinna

[Obinna]

42 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Double standard?

"The backlash forced Neville to delete his Twitter account, and issue an apology on Wednesday. 

In response to Neville's appointment, the organisation Kick It Out issued a statement expressing "serious concerns over a recruitment process that has resulted in the appointment of someone with no record of management or experience in women's football."

How long until "Kick It Out" issue a statement about John Herdman, I wonder? 

[The Ref]

5 hours ago, dbailey62 said:

Oh come on. There's silliness for fun and then there's inanity. 

When are the players next being gathered? If it's months, do we wait until then with no contact between coach and players? That truly would be inappropriate. 

There is a difference between valid criticisms and cheap shots (your comments re the picture and correspondence). If you were trying to be funny, you failed!

If any was to write a letter to the players it should have been the president of the CSA.  And I was not trying to be funny, I am serious.

 

[Joe MacCarthy]

6 hours ago, dbailey62 said:

Oh come on. There's silliness for fun and then there's inanity.

Well, you responded to the V's acknowledged leader in inanity

in·an·i·ty
noun
noun: inanity; plural noun: inanities

a nonsensical remark or action.
    "they utter whatever inanities will get them elected"
        
lack of sense or meaning; silliness.
        "he commented on the breathtaking inanity of the board's decision"

[Joe MacCarthy]

2 hours ago, kacbru said:

It is time to move on past the letter.... and start to ask how it was delivered.  Was it faxed or by Canada Post?

 

[Admin]

[Unnamed Trialist]

6 hours ago, dbailey62 said:

Oh come on. There's silliness for fun and then there's inanity. 

When are the players next being gathered? If it's months, do we wait until then with no contact between coach and players? That truly would be inappropriate. 

There is a difference between valid criticisms and cheap shots (your comments re the picture and correspondence). If you were trying to be funny, you failed!

Actually David you are mistaken, it is not at all habitual for a new head coach to write a chain letter to players.

What usually happens is that the national federation may inform a few key players before a change, like the team captains.

Then, the new coach will contact by phone those same players. The captains have the responsibility to pass anything else on to other players. 

In any case there is a reason why you don't contact a long list of players: many may not get called up again, or may not be to the liking of the new coach. You do not compromise your total independance as coach in that way.

Then there are others who may not have gotten a callup that you may be interested in, but you would not pre-indicate that with your letter. You can't pre-target a call-up by sending a letter to some and not to others, it is not professional and could be construed as discriminatory: what about those players on the edge of the NT who did not get a letter? What are they supposed to be thinking right now? Should those who got one now feel comfortable that they will get called next time? All this second guessing is not serious.

There are plenty of FIFA windows available for friendlies. The business of waiting for months is false. We already missed November and should not miss the next. That is where you call up your first squad, and talk to them on the pitch training first day. 

A letter written as a form explaining a philosophy is silly, not done, unconvincing to any player who wants to see what a coach does in action, in practice, not in abstraction. That is not silly, it is totally fair.

What Herdman chose to do with the amateurly conceived missives, and the incredible silence and non-communication from him, assistants and the CSA since his appointment, are 100% deserving of criticism. 

Edited January 24, 2018 by Unnamed Trialist

[Joe MacCarthy]

1 minute ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

A letter written as a form explaining a philosophy is silly, not done, unconvincing to any player who wants to see what a coach does in action, in practice, not in abstraction.

You've received a national team letter? Do tell.

[Unnamed Trialist]

Just now, Joe MacCarthy said:

You've received a national team letter? Do tell.

You have no idea how football actually works, do you? Have you ever coached or been in a dressing room, seriously?

In any case, since you are so gung ho about the letter, you must be the one  who saw what it said.

I am simply stating that no player in the history of football has been convinced by a coach on paper, without ever training with him. 

[Joe MacCarthy]

2 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

You have no idea how football actually works, do you? Have you ever coached or been in a dressing room, seriously?

I haven't coached in La Liga or La Roja like you, no.

[Admin]

Ok, guys. 

It really seems we are trying a little to hard to be mad here.

[Joe MacCarthy]

2 hours ago, kacbru said:

It is time to move on past the letter.... and start to ask how it was delivered.  Was it faxed or by Canada Post?

 

[Joe MacCarthy]

3 minutes ago, admin said:

Ok, guys.  t really seems we are trying a little to hard to be mad here.

I'm not mad, I find this absolutely hilarious the lengths some will go to rationalize not giving a guy who's been a proven success even a chance to succeed or fail totally based on a sexist based premise.  And it's killing them to not admit it, and what's even funnier is I'm the right winger here.

[dbailey62]

21 minutes ago, Joe MacCarthy said:

I'm not mad, I find this absolutely hilarious the lengths some will go to rationalize not giving a guy who's been a proven success even a chance to succeed or fail totally based on a sexist based premise.  And it's killing them to not admit it, and what's even funnier is I'm the right winger here.

Agreed. As I've said before here, it seems some here want him to fail even though that means Canada also fails. It's nonsensical. 

[Joe MacCarthy]

Just now, dbailey62 said:

Agreed. As I've said before here, it seems some here want him to fail even though that means Canada also fails. It's nonsensical. 

It surely is, but unfortunately people here have a history of that especially concerning Canadian coaches.  But I've only been seeing that since the U of A days, so I'm no authority.

[Unnamed Trialist]

50 minutes ago, dbailey62 said:

Agreed. As I've said before here, it seems some here want him to fail even though that means Canada also fails. It's nonsensical. 

I don't want him to fail. I just want someone else with better possibilities to be there to ensure success. You guys are being pretty frigging obtuse from what I can see. The guy has no experience with men, backstabbed his colleague, does corny things like this letter business, was not at all convincing with the press, and does not make me at all confident about the program. Whereas with Octavio I had a much better feeling, even better than with Floro. And felt that a serious professional deserves to be given a serious professional chance. 

But really , dbailey, you are saying that, as a professional, you would not want to be given a fair chance to do the job you were hired to do? That is insulting.

About 90% of those on this board, from what I have seen, have serious qualms about Herdman and Joe McC keeps calling us sexist, totally unjustifiably. While you insist we are petty, and silly and our concerns are unwarranted. No one is personally slagging you for supporting Herdman, but you have no problem with doing this with the majority here.

Edited January 25, 2018 by Unnamed Trialist