Herdman new head coach

[Unnamed Trialist]

20 minutes ago, The Beaver said:

I don't disagree. I mean, I suspect there ARE things that Herdman can do to improve the development systems (smaller nuanced things), but you are totally right in thinking that only clubs can effectively develop players.

What makes me most anxious about all of this is that the job seems demanding and unwieldy, the sort that will force Herdman to make compromises in what he focuses on. I know we are cash-strapped, but did we really need to jam two jobs into one? 

The key point is that the CSA is the legal arm of FIFA in Canada. They have power to dictate that the right things be done, as is done in every other FIFA nation. Others do not put up with BS in development, we do. Why can't they raise accreditation for all coaches, forcing people to either be trained properly and licensed, or not coach, starting at higher playing and age levels and working down? Sanctioning higher levels of leagues, and encouraging there to be more teams, and tiers, so we can properly access those excelling?

There are plenty of things the CSA could do without needing a technical director to come along and explain how. 

In any case, Herdman, in New Zealand? The guy has seen a developmental system first hand that is one of the few that is actually worse than ours. Great stuff.

[jpg75]

42 minutes ago, The Beaver said:

 I know we are cash-strapped, but did we really need to jam two jobs into one? 

How much debt do you think the CSA is in?

[Kent]

On 2018-01-13 at 1:48 PM, Obinna said:

I think he's qualified in a sense but so are Marc Dos Santos, Mauro Biello and many other coaches, all for different reasons. 

I see nothing wrong with the opinion that Zambrano is more qualified than Herdman, with the biggest knock against him, of course, that he hasn't coached a high level game in Men's soccer. Zambrano has.

Of course, when I brought up this point in online debates, the response was CWNT fans (all men btw) calling me sexist. 

Which takes us back to what I was saying before about (some) CWNT fans...

 

Maybe I have missed it but I haven’t seen people take issue with someone saying Zambrano is more qualified than Herdman. The problem that I have seen are people saying Herdman is completely unqualified, or that he is an amateur coach. Some people are talking about him as if he is just some random person off of the street. That is more than a bit ridiculous in my opinion.

[The Beaver]

1 hour ago, jpg75 said:

How much debt do you think the CSA is in?

No idea. Is it in debt? I honestly do not know its finances. I just know ours ain't the richest soccer association in the world. "Cash-strapped" does not automatically mean "in debt", of course.

[jpg75]

7 hours ago, The Beaver said:

No idea. Is it in debt? I honestly do not know its finances. I just know ours ain't the richest soccer association in the world. "Cash-strapped" does not automatically mean "in debt", of course.

CSA have $13M in cash reserves with an $18M annual budget. Sure, not rich by any means, but certainly able to pay two different individuals to do what should be two different jobs.

[Grizzly]

8 hours ago, Kadenge said:

So nothing really to report back on re TSN appearance other than our journalists are really soft on asking tough questions. Once again the CSA are absent and leave it to JH to put the inferno out by himself. Shame on them..truly gutless leadership. While I do think JH is the right person for the men's  excel program his success  as manager of the CMNT  is going to hinge on him hiring experienced and seasoned assistants who have a Concacaf CV

One thing that was nice about Montagliani is he would often go on tv and explain why they were doing things. Yet Reed makes one of the most controversial decisions in CSA history and is no where to be seen to explain and defend it? It does not inspire one with confidence in Reed's leadership regardless of how the Herdman move turns out.

 

 

[Kurt-MTL]

A little late to the party here but I'll toss in my 2 cents. 

I was as shocked as everybody else when I saw this, especially considering we looked pretty decent at the Gold Cup. My first instinct was that Zambrano must have ruffled a few feathers with the old boys club and was ousted for it. In reality that's just speculation as none of us really know what was happening behind the scenes. 

However to replace him with Herdman is shocking. I have nothing against the guy but quite frankly he is not qualified for the role. If he wants to transition to the men's game then by all means go for it, but do it the right way and earn your stripes. Best thing would have been to land an assistant's gig under an experienced coach at MLS or USL level and learn the men's game. And if he wanted to stay in Canada but wasn't willing to work as an assistant, why not be the head guy at Abbotsford or Thunder Bay or something? I mean is it really beneath him to have to prove himself at a lower level and rise up the ranks? I'd imagine guys like Marc Dos Santos and Mark Watson must be shaking their heads at the CSA over this. 

That said, for the sake of the NT I hope he gets buy-in from some of the senior guys and they put in credible performances. We have a decent side and the goal should be hex or you're fired but I bet the CSA gives him plenty of rope; unless things take an absolutely shambolic turn and the team turns on him..

[The Ref]

9 minutes ago, Kurt-MTL said:

A little late to the party here but I'll toss in my 2 cents. 

I was as shocked as everybody else when I saw this, especially considering we looked pretty decent at the Gold Cup. My first instinct was that Zambrano must have ruffled a few feathers with the old boys club and was ousted for it. In reality that's just speculation as none of us really know what was happening behind the scenes. 

However to replace him with Herdman is shocking. I have nothing against the guy but quite frankly he is not qualified for the role. If he wants to transition to the men's game then by all means go for it, but do it the right way and earn your stripes. Best thing would have been to land an assistant's gig under an experienced coach at MLS or USL level and learn the men's game. And if he wanted to stay in Canada but wasn't willing to work as an assistant, why not be the head guy at Abbotsford or Thunder Bay or something? I mean is it really beneath him to have to prove himself at a lower level and rise up the ranks? I'd imagine guys like Marc Dos Santos and Mark Watson must be shaking their heads at the CSA over this. 

That said, for the sake of the NT I hope he gets buy-in from some of the senior guys and they put in credible performances. We have a decent side and the goal should be hex or you're fired but I bet the CSA gives him plenty of rope; unless things take an absolutely shambolic turn and the team turns on him..

The problem with Herdman is that he thinks he is a prophet when in fact he is nothing more than a cheap charlatan.

 

[dbailey62]

5 minutes ago, The Ref said:

The problem with Herdman is that he thinks he is a prophet when in fact he is nothing more than a cheap charlatan.

That's perhaps a little strong as he did do a good job of picking up a broken woman's team from the turmoil of the Morace era and molded them into a decent football team with two Olympic bronze medals in their account. 

We should at least give credit where it's due. 

He certainly has quite the challenge in front him now though but he obviously believes in himself. If he didn't, he'd be a fool to take the job. 

That said, I too find this whole scenario quite twisted but the ball is in his court and we do need him to succeed. 

The Hex in 2002 has to be the minimum level of success for John to continue in the job.  

[Kent]

I don’t completely disagree with the “hex or bust” idea, but it might be too early to say that. With USA not in the 2018 World Cup they could drop out of the top 3 in CONCACAF which could mean in the penultimate round of qualifying we could be in a group with Mexico and USA, which would be a big ask. If we put in a good showing in that group but ultimately are overpowered, do well in the CONCACAF League of Nations and the Gold Cup, then it might not be so straightforward of a decision.

[The Ref]

1 hour ago, dbailey62 said:

That's perhaps a little strong as he did do a good job of picking up a broken woman's team from the turmoil of the Morace era and molded them into a decent football team with two Olympic bronze medals in their account. 

We should at least give credit where it's due. 

He certainly has quite the challenge in front him now though but he obviously believes in himself. If he didn't, he'd be a fool to take the job. 

That said, I too find this whole scenario quite twisted but the ball is in his court and we do need him to succeed. 

The Hex in 2002 has to be the minimum level of success for John to continue in the job.  

I agree that is strong, but when he took over after Morace the team was already very competitive.  4th place in the 2003 World Cup.  The team would have likely bounced back regardless. 

[dbailey62]

5 hours ago, The Ref said:

I agree that is strong, but when he took over after Morace the team was already very competitive.  4th place in the 2003 World Cup.  The team would have likely bounced back regardless. 

When? In 2007 we didn't make it out of group. In 2011 we were 16th of 16. Morale was shot. Morace turned out to be a disaster. Herdman had to fix that and he did. Eight years after 2003, we were going nowhere fast!

[Joe MacCarthy]

Oh come on now, Morace was fantastic, so much so that we should bring her back or so goes the new revisionist narrative of the Flat Earth CSA haterz.

Edited January 19, 2018 by Joe MacCarthy

[The Ref]

1 hour ago, dbailey62 said:

When? In 2007 we didn't make it out of group. In 2011 we were 16th of 16. Morale was shot. Morace turned out to be a disaster. Herdman had to fix that and he did. Eight years after 2003, we were going nowhere fast!

When?  This is a quote from Wiki about Morace:

" In February 2009 she was announced as the new head coach of the Canadian national women's team.^[6] Under her guidance, Canada won the 2010 CONCACAF, 2010 and 2011 Cyprus Cups and 2010 Four Nations Tournament. At the 2011 FIFA Women's World Cup the team's top goal scorer Christine Sinclair broke her nose in the opening match and subsequently the team did not progress to the next round as expected. In the first ever FIFA Physical Analysis^[7] at a Women's World Cup, Canada excelled in the distances covered at high speed in comparison to other teams reflecting in their quick tempo, short passing and high pressing game. Unexpectedly, she formally announced her resignation as the coach of the Canadian national women's team on Friday 22 July 2011 due to future budget disputes. Over her 2.5 years in charge Morace improved Canada's FIFA ranking from 11th to 6th position in the World. "

[dbailey62]

Not to mention 16th in the WWC!

She resigned before she could be fired! At least the CSA didn't have to continue to pay her. 

[jpg75]

Morace was a disaster, can we please move on?

[Joe MacCarthy]

19 hours ago, jpg75 said:

Morace was a disaster, can we please move on?

You'll never move on as long as you have some deluded, misguided folks who think she was brilliant and should be brought back.  Apparently she had the amazing effect of traumatizing an entire team after being competitive (2-1) and losing to number one Germany (at home) in what should have been a moral "victory" and your best player scoring a brilliant goal with a broken beak.

You would think that would be something to build on and not an end to the tournament but that's how it went down.  It was so f'ed up the whole story hasn't come out to this day and took a modern day Freud (Herdman) to bring them out of the funk.  But Herdman sucks, of course, according to our Flat Earth Friends.

[dbailey62]

16th of 16 is all I will say!

[Joe MacCarthy]

4 minutes ago, dbailey62 said:

16th of 16 is all I will say!

Just to flog this dead horse a little longer, did you ever get the story of what happened.  The only thing I could put together was Morace wigged out basically saying it wasn't good enough and then the team went in the tank.  I could be wrong, did you ever hear anything, because AFAIK the team clammed up and the true story never came out.

Edited January 19, 2018 by Joe MacCarthy

[Admin]

1 minute ago, Joe MacCarthy said:

Just to flog this dead horse a little longer, did you ever get the story of what happened.  The only thing I could put together was Morace wigged out basically saying it wasn't good enough and then the team went in the tank.  I could be wrong, did you ever hear anything?

I would highly prefer such details never be posted here, and I really mean that. 

[Joe MacCarthy]

7 minutes ago, admin said:

I would highly prefer such details never be posted here, and I really mean that. 

You've just prompted an all out investigation (I slipped and wrote allegation before I corrected it)  A person can make assumptions based on what might not be posted.  Anything to do with the team not of a non personal, relational bent is fair game to be posted, so i can only assume...  Now I'm just trying to remember any rumours, I am piqued.

Edited January 19, 2018 by Joe MacCarthy

[dbailey62]

3 minutes ago, Joe MacCarthy said:

You've just prompted an all out investigation (I slipped and wrote allegation before I corrected it)

We aren't going there!

[Admin]

6 minutes ago, Joe MacCarthy said:

You've just prompted an all out investigation (I slipped and wrote allegation before I corrected it)

That's fine.  Dig to your hearts content, but there are some theories that need to stay in people's heads.  Things that have already been removed and can't come back. 

Times they are a changin'  and this forum may be becoming a liability and need to be moved to a separate entity all together.  Socially it is costing us, but there are also things that could be posted that could in no short order be an existential threat to the Voyageurs.  We have gone from forum to a real stadium presence and beyond.  We need to become less of a forum, without killing the forum, and not risk the broader bigger picture.   

[Joe MacCarthy]

This is just a former reporter/investigator whose memory is quickly deteriorating, and while curious, is now too lazy to put in the due diligence to either find out or remind oneself if I already knew.  And at this point I don't care enough.

[dbailey62]

We'll let Duane do it!