CPL General

[shermanator]

6 hours ago, Keegan said:

After watching the CPL promo video for FC Edmonton it’s clear that if Ottawa is in they have talked to their supporters.  I don’t see much supporter talk here from Ottawa fans which is very suspect.. makes me think they know something and are held be a confidentiality agreement.

Or perhaps Ottawa supporters avoid this place like a lot of people involved in local SG's...?

[Gopherbashi]

Didn't what's his face head coach of FCE pretty much tell everyone last week that Ottawa was in?

[Blackdude]

16 minutes ago, Gopherbashi said:

Didn't what's his face head coach of FCE pretty much tell everyone last week that Ottawa was in?

Think pretty much every coach has told everyone that Ottawa was in. 

[Red and White]

I'm involved with one of the two Ottawa groups, and I've personally heard nothing like @Olympique_de_Marseille. Whatever Fury intends to do next year, it's a very tightly kept secret. There is no information at all, which is understandable given that they want to respect the USL season. If they announce that they are leaving next year, USL attendance and interest will tank for the current season.

If I remember correctly, they announced that they were leaving NASL a few days before the final home game in that league. Based on that, I would expect a similar time-line this time as well.

Ottawa's ownership group has a lot to learn about the sport, but their business decisions with Fury have been good so far. Fury is, at the end of the day, a product they own that they want to grow. I wouldn't be surprised if they're still in the process of deciding whether to join CanPL or take a 'wait and see' approach and stick with USL for 2019, potentially joining CanPL in 2020 if they like what they see - this is pure speculation on my part.

[Jason]

20 minutes ago, Red and White said:

I'm involved with one of the two Ottawa groups, and I've personally heard nothing like @Olympique_de_Marseille. Whatever Fury intends to do next year, it's a very tightly kept secret. There is no information at all, which is understandable given that they want to respect the USL season. If they announce that they are leaving next year, USL attendance and interest will tank for the current season.

If I remember correctly, they announced that they were leaving NASL a few days before the final home game in that league. Based on that, I would expect a similar time-line this time as well.

Ottawa's ownership group has a lot to learn about the sport, but their business decisions with Fury have been good so far. Fury is, at the end of the day, a product they own that they want to grow. I wouldn't be surprised if they're still in the process of deciding whether to join CanPL or take a 'wait and see' approach and stick with USL for 2019, potentially joining CanPL in 2020 if they like what they see - this is pure speculation on my part.

I really don't think Ottawa will be given much of a choice to stay in USL.  But on the bright side, why can't they sell the USL franchise to an ownership group that will relocate it south of the border?  USL expansion fees are $7 million US, so the value of an existing franchise is more than that.  Why not sell the franchise and in the agreement make sure some of the players you want to keep (mostly Canadians) will be transferred to the new Ottawa CPL team?  Perhaps a deal like this has already been done and everyone involved has signed non-disclosure statements until the end of the year.  I don't know the details of the franchise agreement the Fury have with the USL, but since they would not be crossing over to a rival league like NASL (some USL officials have  even expressed support for the CPL), you would think this would be a friendly breakup and the USL would allow them to get some value for their franchise through a sale.

[BuzzAndSting]

The president of the Ottawa Fury is John Pugh. He is also a partner in OSEF and is on the CSA board.

[ChrisinOrleans]

On 7/18/2018 at 10:05 PM, BuzzAndSting said:

3. Home territory

This bucket would contain players that a team would identify to the league as coming from their immediate or regional market, and would be important to fan support and development. "One of the things we are adamant about is creating hometown heroes," Clanachan says. "There are a lot of great soccer players who will be, and are, coming out of Hamilton." You could envision former Mac players or, say, Hamilton-raised national team goalie Milan Borjan (now playing for Red Star Belgrade) on the list Forge FC submits.

4. Canadian universities and colleges

The CPL has been talking to USports about conducting a university draft.

 

Okay, so if there is no team in the province of Québec, or Moncton or Eastern or Northern Ontario (since Ottawa hasn't confirmed) where are Francophone players going, and is the league going to bother putting anything out for French-speakers since their original video? 

Likewise, does this mean Canadian universities and colleges (IE, CIS), or are we picking and choosing from American schools? If it's the US option, It's very disappointing. 

 

[Blackdude]

48 minutes ago, ChrisinOrleans said:

Okay, so if there is no team in the province of Québec, or Moncton or Eastern or Northern Ontario (since Ottawa hasn't confirmed) where are Francophone players going, and is the league going to bother putting anything out for French-speakers since their original video? 

 Likewise, does this mean Canadian universities and colleges (IE, CIS), or are we picking and choosing from American schools? If it's the US option, It's very disappointing. 

  

Would they rather be playing here than Finland, Oman, Australia or Feroe Islands? That's the question. (And I'm naming those countries, because there are players from Quebec playing in those countries)

I don't mind having Canadians who went through the NCAA route. I don't see why it would be disappointing. Look at the last CFL draft, 6 of the top 8 players went through the NCAA route. The question is how do you qualify someone who is eligible? I think it will be based off how many years lived in Canada like the CFL does.

[CDNFootballer]

4 hours ago, ChrisinOrleans said:

Okay, so if there is no team in the province of Québec, or Moncton or Eastern or Northern Ontario (since Ottawa hasn't confirmed) where are Francophone players going, and is the league going to bother putting anything out for French-speakers since their original video? 

Likewise, does this mean Canadian universities and colleges (IE, CIS), or are we picking and choosing from American schools? If it's the US option, It's very disappointing. 

 

The french or english Quebec players won't be shut out of joining a CPL club just because their province doesn't have a CPL club.

[ChrisinOrleans]

3 hours ago, Blackdude said:

Would they rather be playing here than Finland, Oman, Australia or Feroe Islands? That's the question. (And I'm naming those countries, because there are players from Quebec playing in those countries)

I don't mind having Canadians who went through the NCAA route. I don't see why it would be disappointing. Look at the last CFL draft, 6 of the top 8 players went through the NCAA route. The question is how do you qualify someone who is eligible? I think it will be based off how many years lived in Canada like the CFL does.

Is Olivier Occéan not also in Norway (along with Zakaria Messoudi)? I know of Finland, Australia and Faroe Islands, but who from Québec is in Oman? Also, Zach Sakunda (Franco-Ontarien) is in Sweden last I checked too. Otherwise, 100% agreed that they'd rather be here. I'm just confused on how the 'regional' markets will be drawn, and if those players will be given preference over another domestic from say, Senneterre. 

Onto universities; it's disappointing because we're essentially shutting out our own domestic university system. Like, I get that it isn't as good as NCAA, but CanPL is not going to be as good as USL-NASL's top tier teams at first launch either. If we're going to do this to give our own kids a chance, then let's ACTUALLY do that. 

33 minutes ago, CDNFootballer said:

The french or english Quebec players won't be shut out of joining a CPL club just because their province doesn't have a CPL club.

I figured that out, I just don't know how the regional market thing will work. Like, if I am from Ottawa, can I join another club or is there some regional protectionism in place? I'm not opposed to this, just have no idea how it will work in reality.  

[Blackdude]

37 minutes ago, ChrisinOrleans said:

Is Olivier Occéan not also in Norway (along with Zakaria Messoudi)? I know of Finland, Australia and Faroe Islands, but who from Québec is in Oman? Also, Zach Sakunda (Franco-Ontarien) is in Sweden last I checked too. Otherwise, 100% agreed that they'd rather be here. I'm just confused on how the 'regional' markets will be drawn, and if those players will be given preference over another domestic from say, Senneterre. 

 Onto universities; it's disappointing because we're essentially shutting out our own domestic university system. Like, I get that it isn't as good as NCAA, but CanPL is not going to be as good as USL-NASL's top tier teams at first launch either. If we're going to do this to give our own kids a chance, then let's ACTUALLY do that. 

Philippe Lincourt-Joseph just signed in Oman. Occéan is still in Norway. Messoudi isn't.

It's not like all the good Canadian players are in NCAA. We have good USports players who would get in that way. I don't know why you're saying that we would be shutting out our own university system like you're saying. If there was a draft with NCAA and CIS players, I think you'd get a mix of both. And if you look at CFL draft, it depends year to year the amount of NCAA/USports players. 

Edited August 3, 2018 by Blackdude

[ted]

14 hours ago, ChrisinOrleans said:

I figured that out, I just don't know how the regional market thing will work. Like, if I am from Ottawa, can I join another club or is there some regional protectionism in place? I'm not opposed to this, just have no idea how it will work in reality.  

Huh?!?! You seem to be confusing some things.

"Market exclusivity" or "franchise rights" or whatever you want to call them simply means no on else can own and operate a team in a given area. This is used to protect the customer base of a business. It is about spectators.

Player movement is entirely different and you may be thinking of something like the MLS "homegrown" system and/or draft. CanPL currently has neither of those things and I hope they do not ever.

Players can sign with whoever they want subject only to any existing agreements they may have. If you are playing for X and want to move to Y you have to either be "traded" or wait until your contract expires and you become what is known as a "free agent."

[Unnamed Trialist]

7 hours ago, ted said:

Player movement is entirely different and you may be thinking of something like the MLS "homegrown" system and/or draft. CanPL currently has neither of those things and I hope they do not ever.

Players can sign with whoever they want subject only to any existing agreements they may have. If you are playing for X and want to move to Y you have to either be "traded" or wait until your contract expires and you become what is known as a "free agent."

I have defended freedom of movement, total freedom of movement, sign from wherever you want and players going where they may. Apart from the fact that legally it could not be otherwise. 

The only thing you want to avoid are bidding wars for players. I know, everyone will say with a salary cap that will not happen. But we have heard nothing about what a club could spend on offering a player housing, a car, some perks via a sponsor, and so on. 

Salary cap means that a guy who is going to be offered 75,000 a year in Hamilton may get offered 83k in Winnipeg, but the discrepancies won't be that great, do not think. This does mean that certain markets may have problems attracting in players, without the perks alongside. York9 and Forge, being close to larger population centres and where players are from, have homes, may have an advantage in the sense that they can offer the same as Halifax or Edmonton, but the player will think that by living at or near home he comes out ahead. 

The risk of bidding wars is real; they may play out in the perks and extras not on the books in terms of salary cap, and put the league at risk as they stretch clubs financially and make any attempt at budget balancing more precarious. 

[dyslexic nam]

I am really looking forward to the day where we can all analyze the shit out of recruitments, transfers and other CPL minutiae.  We will have arrived.

[mtlsab]

Honnestly, I think that, before each team has its own academy, and even after they do, each team should have a partner ship with the local high schools, college and universities, for the training facilities and the scouting. 

Of course, after maybe 10 years, each club in CLP should have its reserve team, its academy, etc, but it still can be done with the participation of local institutions, so if for any reason, the club collapse, the field can be used by a high school or an university. Some scholarships could be offered by the clubs to keep their players close to their team and the player could play with the university during his study, etc.

 

What do you think about that?

[Bison44]

13 minutes ago, mtlsab said:

Honnestly, I think that, before each team has its own academy, and even after they do, each team should have a partner ship with the local high schools, college and universities, for the training facilities and the scouting. 

Of course, after maybe 10 years, each club in CLP should have its reserve team, its academy, etc, but it still can be done with the participation of local institutions, so if for any reason, the club collapse, the field can be used by a high school or an university. Some scholarships could be offered by the clubs to keep their players close to their team and the player could play with the university during his study, etc.

 

What do you think about that?

All the CDN MLS teams cant even keep a reserve team.  

[mtlsab]

1 minute ago, Bison44 said:

All the CDN MLS teams cant even keep a reserve team.  

And this is a shame that they can't. but their reserve team can play at a provincial level

[matty]

1 hour ago, mtlsab said:

Honnestly, I think that, before each team has its own academy, and even after they do, each team should have a partner ship with the local high schools, college and universities, for the training facilities and the scouting. 

Of course, after maybe 10 years, each club in CLP should have its reserve team, its academy, etc, but it still can be done with the participation of local institutions, so if for any reason, the club collapse, the field can be used by a high school or an university. Some scholarships could be offered by the clubs to keep their players close to their team and the player could play with the university during his study, etc.

 

What do you think about that?

It's a shame there isn't a d3 out west. having cpl clubs partner with a local d3 team to in a similar way mls does with usl would be a good move. they hopefully do partner with local academies and leagues.

[matty]

1 hour ago, mtlsab said:

And this is a shame that they can't. but their reserve team can play at a provincial level

need the leagues first

[shamrock]

7 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I have defended freedom of movement, total freedom of movement, sign from wherever you want and players going where they may. Apart from the fact that legally it could not be otherwise. 

 

Only in the land of freedom...?

[Xavier]

On 8/2/2018 at 11:58 AM, ChrisinOrleans said:

Okay, so if there is no team in the province of Québec, or Moncton or Eastern or Northern Ontario (since Ottawa hasn't confirmed) where are Francophone players going, and is the league going to bother putting anything out for French-speakers since their original video? 

Likewise, does this mean Canadian universities and colleges (IE, CIS), or are we picking and choosing from American schools? If it's the US option, It's very disappointing. 

 

I hope they can come to Pacific FC. We have a small Francophone community here in Victoria, but if young Quebecois are willing to come out here, there are enough families that would be willing to host a billet. Thanks to the Navy base, there are a lot of Francophones here. Even without it, there is a very strong community (including myself) that would welcome them with open arms. There's even a Francophone school from K-12.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

6 hours ago, matty said:

It's a shame there isn't a d3 out west...

 

L1O is amateur in all but name because most of the teams want to be able to protect the NCAA eligibility of their players, so not sure there's really such a huge difference from top amateur leagues out west like the AMSL and VMSL and that ways can't be found to field U-20 academy rosters at that sort of level. Also think people take U-Sports more seriously than they really should on here given its funding level and culture is very different from the NCAA. It has a very short season with a relatively low calibre of play, because many of the best players to be found in that sort of age group are working regular jobs and playing for amateur teams rather than going to university or go to community colleges.

[baulderdash77]

L10 is effectively a top end amateur and in some cases semi pro league.  There’s lots of U Sports and NCAA players in there and lots of former U Sports and NCAA players, former pro’s and also younger players aspiring for something better.

It’s like a melting pot of up and coming talent and folks hanging on to their soccer dreams.  I’m not denouncing the league at all I’m just calling it like it is.

There’s going to be a fair number of players each year coming out of L1O, PLSQ, U Sports and NCAA feeding the rosters of the CPL each year.  The cream will rise to the top and I expect lots of roster churn on CPL teams from those player pools for about 2-3 years before the talent pipeline shakes out a bit.

Keep in mind that besides the 1,000+   players in this talent pool there’s another 150 or so similar players in Europe and 70 or so players sitting on USL rosters and the bottom of MLS rosters looking for a place to shine.

There’s a lot of pent up talent that hasn’t had anywhere to go for a while in the system and after that release valve is opened it will be interesting to watch.

I think CPL rosters will be highly evolving and the league will give an explosion of rapid development where 10-20 of these players are about to become names for the soccer community in Canada.

 

Edited August 4, 2018 by baulderdash77

[baulderdash77]

If you keep in mind the “5 pools of talent” that is getting talked about there’s about 1,200-1,500 players in those pools plus guys in local academies.  

There will be about 105 Canadian player slots in year 1 so the top 7-8% of that pool will make it in year 1.  That’s quite the distillation that’s about to occur.  A lot of dreams are about to come true and a lot of dreams are going to come to an end here.

One thing is for sure the top end of Canadian talent is about to come into focus very quickly.  This is going to be exciting to watch in a couple months.

[mtlsab]

1 hour ago, baulderdash77 said:

If you keep in mind the “5 pools of talent” that is getting talked about there’s about 1,200-1,500 players in those pools plus guys in local academies.  

There will be about 105 Canadian player slots in year 1 so the top 7-8% of that pool will make it in year 1.  That’s quite the distillation that’s about to occur.  A lot of dreams are about to come true and a lot of dreams are going to come to an end here.

One thing is for sure the top end of Canadian talent is about to come into focus very quickly.  This is going to be exciting to watch in a couple months.

What do you mean that a lot of dreams are going to come to an end? That some CDN players expecting to play pro in CPL won't have the level to make it?

 

Sorry, English isn't my first language

Edited August 4, 2018 by mtlsab