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2 minutes ago, baulderdash77 said:

There’s a lot of guys hanging on in that pool that aren’t going to make it as a pro.  After this big distillation, this big opportunity that window will close for some of these guys.  

Oh I get it, you mean that after year 1, the initial opportunity will disappear since the squad will be full

Edited by mtlsab
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TERMS AND AGREEMENTS ANYONE?

Just realised speaking to some fellow fans the other day that signing up for PacificFC meant sending my money with virtually no guarantee of anything. Nothing in writing, nothing signed, no terms, no agreement, no receipt of any official nature. No thank-you reply of any sort.

I suspect most of the pre-season tix sign-ups are the same, here and elsewhere?

I basically find it funny, it is pretty much all on faith. I doubt they have the legal-financial set up in place.

And since I like others do not really think I will actually go to too many games (can't), I recognize I cavalierly threw 50 bucks at the thing to inflate the numbers for the launch and will get what I deserve.

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Here is a better list:

Q: What does the Forge FC Co-Founder membership give me?

A: Placing a $50 deposit reserves your spot in line when Co-Founder memberships become available. As a Co-Founder, you will receive: 

— The single, one-time opportunity to become an Inaugural Co-Founder of Forge FC

— Access to the exclusive and personalized First Official Forge FC Scarf

— Prioritized access to preferred seat selection at Tim Hortons Field

— Co-Founders Board Membership - Forge FC will host annual meetings with Co-Founders to vote on special initiatives for the Club

— Exclusive Co-Founder fan experiences at Tim Hortons Field 
Co-Founders certificate of ownership

— Exclusive pre-match access to the field at Tim Hortons Field during Inaugural Season

— Discount on Forge FC merchandise

— Discount on food and non-alcoholic drinks at Tim Hortons Field on match day

— Priority Access to all Forge FC, Canadian Championship & Tim Hortons Field Events

https://login.canpl.ca/forgefc

(Click on FAQ for a few more benefits of being a member)

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On 8/4/2018 at 1:28 AM, matty said:

It's a shame there isn't a d3 out west. having cpl clubs partner with a local d3 team to in a similar way mls does with usl would be a good move. they hopefully do partner with local academies and leagues.

Now Pacfic FC more than likely could setup a reserve side in the PCSL, as the Whitecaps have in the past. It could be combination of rostered players, local area players they are interested in and in some cases trialists. The Ontario teams could do this with L1O and so one. Will Foothills be turned into a reserve team for Cavalry FC. Winnipeg could do the same as there is PDL team in their market. 

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8 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

TERMS AND AGREEMENTS ANYONE?

Just realised speaking to some fellow fans the other day that signing up for PacificFC meant sending my money with virtually no guarantee of anything. Nothing in writing, nothing signed, no terms, no agreement, no receipt of any official nature. No thank-you reply of any sort.

I suspect most of the pre-season tix sign-ups are the same, here and elsewhere?

I basically find it funny, it is pretty much all on faith. I doubt they have the legal-financial set up in place.

And since I like others do not really think I will actually go to too many games (can't), I recognize I cavalierly threw 50 bucks at the thing to inflate the numbers for the launch and will get what I deserve.

For a contract to exist in Canadian law you merely need an offer, acceptance and consideration.  If terms were represented in that offer you're fine.. receipts, signing etc. are nice but no necessary.  The agreement would be the "offer" and the terms if not stipulated work in your favour for any ambiguities.  If they made representations to you that are later proven to be misreps you could sue for breach and get your $50 back.... LOL.  I'm not sure if you had the same terms but in Hamilton it said our membership was refundable, so there's that.. I'd hope it's the same league wide for the sake of good faith dealings.

I'm not sure of the representations made in the offer in your case but in Hamilton for instance we were given a little card that showed the benefits of being a member.  Of course, if you paid cash and received nothing back that's a different dilemma but on the balance of probabilities you could probably prove that you had a contract (not that I'd expect a pro team to screw you out of $50).  

Curious.. what were the terms represented to you in the offer prior to your membership? 

 

Edited by Keegan
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With the Original 8 Teams having been announced basically,

When focusing on those 2-4 Expansion Clubs For the 2020 Season that David Clanachan has discussed 

IMO it’s so important to have this League well covered across this country

I’ve heard lots of people say let’s have Mississauga, Kitchener-Waterloo, & London join right away

I agree all those would be great markets but yet again wouldn’t be very *Coast to Coast* if you have SIX Ontario Teams!

For me it would be Quebec City, Saskatchewan (Regina or Saskatoon), Moncton and St John’s 

That way you’ve covered everything with exception to PEI & The Territories

Then you can start to double up 

I am very optimistic that we’ll reach 16 Teams prior to 2026 

Edited by Thomas
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Here is the highly sophisticated deal we get in Victoria West:

-before you sign up and send in the money it says:

PUT YOUR $50.00 DEPOSIT DOWN AND RECEIVE A PLACE IN LINE WHEN TICKETS GO ON SALE.

UPON COMPLETING THE FORM BELOW AND PROVIDING PAYMENT, YOU WILL RECEIVE A NUMBER AND PLACE IN LINE, TO BECOME A MEMBER OF PACIFIC FOOTBALL CLUB FOR FIRST ACCESS SEAT SELECTION AND TICKETS
 

 

CREATE A CPL PROFILE TO GET STARTED

IF YOU ALREADY HAVE CPL LOGIN, PLEASE SCROLL DOWN BELOW

Edited by Unnamed Trialist
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Just now, Unnamed Trialist said:

Here is the highly sophisticated deal we get in Victoria West:

-before you sign up and send in the money it says:

PUT YOUR $50.00 DEPOSIT DOWN AND RECEIVE A PLACE IN LINE WHEN TICKETS GO ON SALE.

UPON COMPLETING THE FORM BELOW AND PROVIDING PAYMENT, YOU WILL RECEIVE A NUMBER AND PLACE IN LINE, TO BECOME A MEMBER OF PACIFIC FOOTBALL CLUB FOR FIRST ACCESS SEAT SELECTION AND TICKETS
 

 

CREATE A CPL PROFILE TO GET STARTED

IF YOU ALREADY HAVE CPL LOGIN, PLEASE SCROLL DOWN BELOW

And after you send it all in, you get this, it is amazing stuff from a pro football club:

This is your place in the queue once memberships become available for purchase. Look out for an email with more details later this year. 

You will also receive a separate email asking you to verify your CPL Login account. Launching later this year, we will be introducing a new fan program that will provide you with a tailored and personalized experience that can be unlocked with the login you've created through your initial club deposit form.

Should you have any issues, please contact us at support@pacificfootball.club

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9 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

And after you send it all in, you get this, it is amazing stuff from a pro football club:

This is your place in the queue once memberships become available for purchase. Look out for an email with more details later this year. 

You will also receive a separate email asking you to verify your CPL Login account. Launching later this year, we will be introducing a new fan program that will provide you with a tailored and personalized experience that can be unlocked with the login you've created through your initial club deposit form.

Should you have any issues, please contact us at support@pacificfootball.club

Oh wow, that is shockingly bad.  You're right that those terms actually represent nothing at all.  They don't even say you would have priority over a hypothetical non-paying person who wanted season tickets.  "First access" is pretty broad.  They say they'll launch a fan program.. but they don't represent anything - for all you know that could mean a complimentary sucker.  

Did you receive a number and place in line when you signed up?  That's their only obligation.  Did it say it was refundable?

When you put terms like that and in such an unprofessional font and manner (seriously did Rob Friend's kid do it on the drive to the launch?) it's not a shock that your membership numbers will be low.  Anyone dropping money for that is serious about a pro team coming at least..  

 

Edited by Keegan
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12 hours ago, Blackjack15 said:

With the Original 8 Teams having been announced basically,

When focusing on those 2-4 Expansion Clubs For the 2020 Season that David Clanachan has discussed 

IMO it’s so important to have this League well covered across this country

I’ve heard lots of people say let’s have Mississauga, Kitchener-Waterloo, & London join right away

I agree all those would be great markets but yet again wouldn’t be very *Coast to Coast* if you have SIX Ontario Teams!

For me it would be Quebec City, Saskatchewan (Regina or Saskatoon), Moncton and St John’s 

That way you’ve covered everything with exception to PEI & The Territories

Then you can start to double up 

I am very optimistic that we’ll reach 16 Teams prior to 2026 

I agree over loading southern Ontario is stupid as fuck. A lot of people want to see it cause they think southern Ontario is London and want local derbies but so much so fast so close (5 teams within a 2 hour drive of each other!) with TFC already there seems like a recipe for disaster especially as Hamilton and York will still be trying to build themselves up by 2020 and maybe even 2026. (I still don't fully get Sauga as the magic market as no one seems to want to supply evidence of why it is the best place).

The places you've mentioned make sense but it's a matter of if someone wants to own a team there and is serious about CPL. It looks like there will be a Saskatchewan team soonish but I and I think no one else here really knows beyond that.

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There’s lots of smoke that teams 9 and 10 will be in Saskatchewan and Quebec but no fire.

Also lots of smoke that other Ontario, Atlantic Canada and Quebec markets have interest as well but no fire there yet.

I’d like them to get Ottawa announced officially then start announcing player signings and not talk 2020 expansion until mid way through next season.  Let’s get the 1st season running first before we get get ahead of ourselves.

 

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Season ticket deposits are really only worth anything if demand is expected to be really high, or if there is a limited quantity of a certain type of ticket that everyone wants (i.e. supporters section or club seats). Otherwise I tend to view the purchase of a deposit as a symbolic gesture. The actual season tickets are where the perks lie.

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1 hour ago, Toronto Ruffrider said:

Season ticket deposits are really only worth anything if demand is expected to be really high, or if there is a limited quantity of a certain type of ticket that everyone wants (i.e. supporters section or club seats). Otherwise I tend to view the purchase of a deposit as a symbolic gesture. The actual season tickets are where the perks lie.

Completely agree, the real story will be told when the sales of season tickets opens up. If a few teams get to the point where they have to cap the SSH then there will be real value in the membership. 

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On 8/5/2018 at 7:23 PM, Keegan said:

Curious.. what were the terms represented to you in the offer prior to your membership?

The verbal commitment from the owners of the team in Victoria was that the $50 would be applied to any tickets purchase and would provide access to member-only offers and events.

I'm gonna trust them on that.

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2 hours ago, ted said:

The verbal commitment from the owners of the team in Victoria was that the $50 would be applied to any tickets purchase and would provide access to member-only offers and events.

I'm gonna trust them on that.

Oh, I trust them, I really do. What I do not get is how we hear that Beirne and Co are doing proper vetting across the country for these new franchises, and they can't set up a protocol that would be followed systematically by every club. It would not be too hard to do, for every launch, a set of minimums in terms of design, video presentation, venue concept, financials, guarantees, committments, minimum standards.

What I think should happen: the CPL should establish a set of minimum guarantees and announce them on their website, so that anyone making a payment for priority might be able to go to the site and check what the minimum guarantee of the CPL is for all clubs. The same way that for any ownership group coming in, the CPL clearly lay out a set of minimums for their to fulfil.

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14 hours ago, matty said:

I agree over loading southern Ontario is stupid as fuck. A lot of people want to see it cause they think southern Ontario is London and want local derbies but so much so fast so close (5 teams within a 2 hour drive of each other!) with TFC already there seems like a recipe for disaster especially as Hamilton and York will still be trying to build themselves up by 2020 and maybe even 2026....

Seriously doubt it will happen any time soon for stadium (or lack thereof) related reasons but K/W, London and Windsor are far enough away from each other and the Golden Horseshoe to be their own markets in live sports and entertainment terms and have their own local media outlets pushing those local entertainment scenes, so don't think there should ever be any concern about what a team in one of those markets would do to crowds elsewhere in southern Ontario. People in the GTA usually don't do the driving mentioned above enough to fully grasp how big the Windsor-Quebec corridor is. Baseball isn't much of a factor any more unlike in the original CSL era, so there is a niche potentially available in those three cities for soccer to become the main live sports option in the summer months to complement the OHL in the winter.

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6 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Seriously doubt it will happen any time soon for stadium (or lack thereof) related reasons but K/W, London and Windsor are far enough away from each other and the Golden Horseshoe to be their own markets in live sports and entertainment terms and have their own local media outlets pushing those local entertainment scenes, so don't think there should ever be any concern about what a team in one of those markets would do to crowds elsewhere in southern Ontario. People in the GTA usually don't do the driving mentioned above enough to fully grasp how big the Windsor-Quebec corridor is. Baseball isn't much of a factor any more unlike in the original CSL era, so there is a niche potentially available in those three cities for soccer to become the main live sports option in the summer months to complement the OHL in the winter.

I agree for GTA with the markets you list (no Sauga) but would still be cautious about Hamilton who are within 70 minutes of both KW and London and could see a live loss (it might be tiny but if you're drawing say 4000 one year and then 3500 the next that's a little concerning). The Hamilton-KW-London triangle could be an issue for a Hamilton team.

I've said it before but I think looking east of Toronto in Oshawa might be a better option than 4 teams west of it. While it's closer to Toronto than say KW, they're a strong drawing jr hockey market (unlike everywhere else in the GTA) and they have a 350k metro area.

Edited by matty
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I would be very surprised if 5 people went from London regularly to watch a Hamilton CanPL team never mind 500, if as seems likely it's still only going to be TFC that are on basic cable in domestic pro soccer terms. I lived and worked in the city for 20 years and still get back for a week or two every year and can't remember ever meeting a Ticats fan or hearing the Ticats even come up in conversation in all of that time, because there's no real feeling of affinity with or connection to Hamilton.

A sizable portion of London's population spend pretty much their entire lives in the immediate London area going no further than Grand Bend on long weekends in the summer months if they are feeling adventurous, so I suspect that Brantford would be about as far as the fanbase is likely to stretch and a Hamilton team would get more people showing up as away supporters for games against a London team than they would ever attract as home supporters.

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Just now, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

I would be very surprised if 5 people went from London regularly to watch a Hamilton CanPL team never mind 500, if as seems likely it's still only going to be TFC that are on basic cable in domestic pro soccer terms. I lived and worked in the city for 20 years and still get back for a week or two every year and can't remember ever meeting a Ticats fan or hearing the Ticats even come up in conversation in all of that time, because there's no real feeling of affinity with or connection to Hamilton.

A sizable portion of London's population spend pretty much their entire lives in the immediate London area going no further than Grand Bend on long weekends in the summer months if they are feeling adventurous, so I suspect that Brantford would be about as far as the fanbase is likely to stretch and a Hamilton team would get more people showing up as away supporters for games against a London team than they would ever attract as home supporters.

I agree again but as I said "it could" there's a lot of unknowns still at play. There was likely a noticeable number of RPB from KW (based on social media and fan reported numbers) so it's not out of the realm that a decent portion of fans might turn to a closer alternative to get a pro soccer fix if they just want pro soccer. 500 is on the high end but it could be a combined several hundred between the two cities.

You mention no connection to Hamilton and I don't think that's exactly an issue. There are fans who are just fans and again if you like soccer (which is a growing sport) having a team within a 60 min drive is a plus.

Again this is all based on unknowns and I'm only talking about within the first decade.

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Having lived my whole life in either the country between Hamilton and London,  going too school in Kitchener,  and now living in Hamilton,  I really don't think any of those cities would take anything away from each other.  I think they have only to gain from local rivalries -  look at the Rangers vs the Knight's in OHL.

 

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Hamilton, London and K-W are each large enough to have their own orbits when it comes to sports but not large enough that your going to get cross over of fans.  

I.e People from London won’t go to Hamilton or people from KW won’t go to Hamilton.

All 3 cities to various degrees get pulled into Toronto’s orbit but not each other’s.  That’s why you see TFC fans from KW, London and Hamilton (like myself, I cheer TFC all the time and was a season seat holder and still go to multiple games per year).

I think Missisauga, Brampton and North York are the same but they haven’t had a strong local orbit in the past because they’re so close to Toronto.

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3 hours ago, baulderdash77 said:

Hamilton, London and K-W are each large enough to have their own orbits when it comes to sports but not large enough that your going to get cross over of fans.  

I.e People from London won’t go to Hamilton or people from KW won’t go to Hamilton.

All 3 cities to various degrees get pulled into Toronto’s orbit but not each other’s.  That’s why you see TFC fans from KW, London and Hamilton (like myself, I cheer TFC all the time and was a season seat holder and still go to multiple games per year).

I think Missisauga, Brampton and North York are the same but they haven’t had a strong local orbit in the past because they’re so close to Toronto.

Or lack of choice?

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10 hours ago, Tigers said:

Having lived my whole life in either the country between Hamilton and London,  going too school in Kitchener,  and now living in Hamilton,  I really don't think any of those cities would take anything away from each other.  I think they have only to gain from local rivalries -  look at the Rangers vs the Knight's in OHL.

 

I think there's a mixed bag when it comes to OHL cause while it does show interest in paying for tickets, soccer isn't hockey. While we can hype up the idea of local rivalries, timeline is a thing here and we really do not know what Hamilton has planned marketing wise.

8 hours ago, baulderdash77 said:

Hamilton, London and K-W are each large enough to have their own orbits when it comes to sports but not large enough that your going to get cross over of fans.  

I.e People from London won’t go to Hamilton or people from KW won’t go to Hamilton.

All 3 cities to various degrees get pulled into Toronto’s orbit but not each other’s.  That’s why you see TFC fans from KW, London and Hamilton (like myself, I cheer TFC all the time and was a season seat holder and still go to multiple games per year).

I think Missisauga, Brampton and North York are the same but they haven’t had a strong local orbit in the past because they’re so close to Toronto.

You're mostly right (in that they do have orbits) but I do know people from KW who are Ti-Cats fans who go to watch games in Hamilton. I don't think that proves interest but I don't think you'll claim proves anything either.

For all we know Hamilton (and other CPL teams) might be planning on appealing to many local and regional youth leagues and could very present it as a part of a nice day trip especially as soccer is popular with kids (CPL very well could try to be more family friendly than say Toronto FC). Until we really see what they're planning in the marketing and what kind of ticket packages they're pushing. A family of 4 from London might think going to Hamilton 5 games a season is a great idea if a flex pack is right.

I think how big Hamilton is (like if it's 4k vs. 14k), how long it takes to get there and how they market will be very big deciders on if places like KW and London get teams.

Edited by matty
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