CPL General

[Guest]

55 minutes ago, Kent said:

I really don’t think I was making your point for you. Leiweke at AEG won MLS Cups and the Stanley Cup. Hardly seems like there was any “conflict of interest”.

LOL! Yeah, online can be confusing.

The reason I say you supported my point was that once people who care about football were in charge, the performance of the football team suddenly improved.

Conversely, when people who do not care about football were in charge, the football team did "less well".

It was really about the effect (results) rather than the cause (conflict of interest).

I think I'm going to bail on this discussion now!

Edited April 20, 2018 by dsqpr

[Bison44]

5 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

An obvious question would be why the headline to the story talks about an "operating profit" rather than a "profit" and if this bit at the very end:

...The Club recorded a payment to Triple B of $3.5 million, the Club’s fourth annual scheduled excess cash payment as required by the Club’s Management Agreement with Triple B. This was in addition to paying the City of Winnipeg $1.3 million, which was related to an earlier Winnipeg Enterprises Corporation debt that was assigned to the Club by the City of Winnipeg in 2005

implies that they were actually left with a surplus of only 300k.

An obvious answer is because that is what it is.   The bombers a part of the owners group (along with city of WPG, province and UofM) they have to finish paying off their share of the initial construction costs.  I think their share was 80mil (5 years ago, not sure on total left unpaid) but this years report is very similar to the last 3-4.  They have had an operating profit of 4-5million per year and a portion of that is supposed to go to paying down the new stadiums cost.  The debt repaid to the city of WPG is from bad years in the early 2000's. 

So I guess if you would like to ominously question the title of the article and imply something sinister you can.  But when I read that story I see a new stadium, and a club that turns a profit and is paying off the stadium and debts from lean years.  And a 300g surplus for a CFL team is bad?? Could have been a season in the red.  

If the Bombers think they can get CPL in there, get another 10-15 home games to help make them money (as part owner and tenant of the stadium) its in there best interest to try and make that successful.  But I can see DSQPR's point, the soccer part of the club will always play second fiddle to football.  

[toontownman]

 

35 minutes ago, Gopherbashi said:

All it's showing is that there's absolutely zero benefit to including MLS B teams in the CPL.

Exactly, and why would there be a large community investment in a B team? Only the hardest of the hardcore go to reserve games in most countries I know. Barcelona B have an average attendance of 1600. The B teams are there to serve a purpose, to improve the A team. I think the MLS clubs missed a trick not renaming and almost branding the B teams differently to build a fanbase and maybe a different match day experience. Ultimately do they want to take away from their top team revenue getting more fans going to the B team? 

Back to the original point. I have said before I think the bigger centres, especially those with MLS teams like Toronto will have potentially a harder job than a Saskatoon or Halifax where a team would be a big deal. While they have the population numbers they have an abundance of competition. I think building and retaining that fan support all comes down to the match day experience, clubs community outreach and commitment/ambition. The quality on the pitch will go a long way too but I don't think its the be all end all. 

[BradMack]

1 hour ago, Bison44 said:

If the Bombers think they can get CPL in there, get another 10-15 home games to help make them money (as part owner and tenant of the stadium) its in there best interest to try and make that successful.  But I can see DSQPR's point, the soccer part of the club will always play second fiddle to football.  

The thing is, from everything we're hearing it will be a salary cap league, so does that really matter as much? They will save a lot of money by being part of the Bombers from sharing office staff and infrastructure that is already in place, and controlling their stadium. If the fans show up and they make enough money from the team to spend to the cap, they will spend to the cap. They are smart business people who are running a CFL team pretty successfully, they know the only way to grow the soccer team is to put a good product on the field, and it is obviously in their best interest to grow the team. Its almost like people think theyre going to ignore it and maybe even intentionally do harm to the team. WHY ON EARTH WOULD THEY DO THAT TO THEIR INVESTMENT. Its not like theyre an evil owner buying a club to torture the fans and slowly kill it or something. It has already been stated here that they are looking at the club as an investment or business, good, so they are going to invest in it and try to grow the business like any business.

[Bison44]

Second fiddle with things like scheduling games...practice times, use of facilities etc is more what I was thinking.  No one is saying they would go to the trouble to start a team then slowly kill it.  But if the soccer turns out 5-10.000 fans it wont be a big money maker, and it it turns out to be in the red, I wouldnt count on the Bombers to take multi million dollar losses to prop up the soccer end of their business.  

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

6 hours ago, Kent said:

It is very possible that a CPL team in Toronto proper could get drowned out by all the other sports options available, but I do think there is a big difference between a reserve team that doesn’t have any real interest in winning, with a constantly changing roster from week to week based on the senior team’s needs, and a (presumably) independent team trying to win a championship playing in a league without reserve teams.

Not necessarily, the North York Rockets often drew crowds like that in the original CSL (crowds were so small I actually remember Rocket Robin from the games I went to at Esther Shiner) and more recently crowds of that size were very much the norm in the latter day CSL when there was no Serb vs Croat angle (as documented on here over the years by Rocket Robin). Any professional team that is generally perceived as minor league operating in TFC's shadow in the GTA is likely to be very high risk financially. I think the USL made a mistake by allowing outright MLS B teams branded as such into their league, but I have yet to see a convincing argument for why the affiliate model in a smaller city distant from the GTA emulating USL teams like Reno 1868 and the Rio Grande Valley Toros wouldn't benefit CanPL through stabilizing what would otherwise be a struggling franchise through subsidized player salaries. It would also be good to see the Whitecaps' top homegrown prospects playing their home games in a Canadian city rather than Fresno.

 

 

Edited April 20, 2018 by BringBackTheBlizzard

[Alex D]

Here's an idea. Instead of whining about how this actual league isn't the way you want it, start your own! Draw up a business plan, find investors and get sanctioning, its easy right? You can have reserve teams, ethnic clubs, your beloved London Lasers (pew pew pew), criminally low wages and all the bus trips you want. I'm sure you'll draw 2,000 fans a match like you always used to talk about. So just do it! Leave this forum behind and get to work on the Bring Back The Blizzard Regional Super League!

God speed sir

Edited April 20, 2018 by Alex D
Spelling and humour

[Kent]

I said "It is very possible that a CPL team in Toronto proper could get drowned out by all the other sports options available"

and then for some reason you said

5 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Not necessarily, the North York Rockets often drew crowds like that in the original CSL (crowds were so small I actually remember Rocket Robin from the games I went to at Esther Shiner)

Why are you phrasing it like you are disagreeing with me when I already called out the fact that a CPL team in Toronto could fall flat on it's face? It might be successful, it might not be. There are a lot of factors that would come into play. The right ownership group with the right stadium situation might be able to pull it off though.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Posts will probably become more bizarre than usual for the next few days due to what the council committee meeting not unfolding according to plan in Edmonton will have done to some people's mood swings where CanPL is concerned. This is the part of the post I responded to:

13 hours ago, Kent said:

...but I do think there is a big difference between a reserve team that doesn’t have any real interest in winning, with a constantly changing roster from week to week based on the senior team’s needs, and a (presumably) independent team trying to win a championship playing in a league without reserve teams.

and I would have thought it obvious why I would have highlighted past independent professional teams in the GTA like the North York Rockets and Toronto Olympians that have at times struggled to break into three figures for crowds at home games when playing in what were billed at the time as Canada's top domestic pro league. This hasn't just been an issue with TFC's reserve team in a USL context and if anybody should be aware of that it's Rocket Robin.

Edited April 20, 2018 by BringBackTheBlizzard

[shermanator]

A little indication on how having close rivals may bring more butts in seats, the Al Clasico (fuckers keep spelling it wrong) has "sold" 1000 tickets in 2 days to the first leg of the FC Edmonton / Calgary Foothills friendlies. Yes, tickets are free, but it's a PDL club playing a former NASL academy. Not exactly the Manchester derby.

Also, it's nice to see a crazy idea that @OnkelDal and I first talked up over beers a few years ago getting this kind of interest.

Now please kindly resume bashing this league, while I continue to try and build it in the stands.

 

[Complete Homer]

For the record, FCEd fans have reported back that Fath/Ball were pretty happy with the meeting, the council voted unanimously to push forward with looking at options, and Fath said in an interview that he knew the Eskimos would push back but thought it more important to address council before trying to compromise with the Eskimos. Characterizing the meeting as anything less than reason for cautious optimism is a bit disingenuous

[Rheo]

Yes "bizarre posts" are caused by the news that memberships in Edmonton FC are double what the season tickets were, that over 1000 people are going to see a friendly and that the council was generally positive towards the FC Edmonton request.  The "bizarre posts" have nothing to do with the constant  warping of facts that some people choose to fit their negative narratives that they choose to beat over the heads to the level of driving sane, productive people off the board  

[Kent]

2 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Posts will probably become more bizarre than usual for the next few days due to what the council committee meeting not unfolding according to plan in Edmonton will have done to some people's mood swings where CanPL is concerned. This is the part of the post I responded to:

and I would have thought it obvious why I would have highlighted past independent professional teams in the GTA like the North York Rockets and Toronto Olympians that have at times struggled to break into three figures for crowds at home games when playing in what were billed at the time as Canada's top domestic pro league. This hasn't just been an issue with TFC's reserve team in a USL context and if anybody should be aware of that it's Rocket Robin.

OK, so let's summarize.

My argument: A new independent team could fail to draw crowds, but there is a difference between reserve teams and independent teams, so the failure of a reserve team does not ensure failure of an independent team.

Your argument: You agree with the first part, but ignore it so that you can restate it as if you are disagreeing with the second part. If you actually disagreed with the second part then you must not think there is a difference between reserve teams and independent teams. If that is the case, it must be hard for you to rationalize why TFC gets well over 25k fans per game while TFC II gets so few.

I think the reality is that your comments had nothing to do with my argument (I think your argument is actually that Toronto can't handle a 2nd team, in particular when one of them is in a league that is clearly lower level in terms of play on the field. This is neither for or against my argument unless you are just saying that instead of saying there is a possibility it could work, I should have said there is 0 possibility it could work) and you just wanted to take another opportunity to spout off your concerns with the CPL.

[Rheo]

Boom 

 

[Gopherbashi]

2 minutes ago, Rheo said:

Boom 

 

I'm not a huge fan of him, but he deserves this opportunity with the work & commitment he's shown until now.

[Kent]

Exciting times for soccer in Canada just 102 days after the darkest day in Canadian soccer according to Totera.

[Complete Homer]

 

Needs to happen

Edited April 20, 2018 by Complete Homer

[Alex D]

NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

[BuzzAndSting]

I'm not thrilled about Totera working with the CPL. I was hoping he would become an objective voice who could speak for the fans through critiques and commentary about the league when necessary. 

[Bbeto]

the important thing is that everything goes forward

[Bbeto]

5 hours ago, shermanator said:

Now please kindly resume bashing this league, while I continue to try and build it in the stands.

the correct road

[dyslexic nam]

15 minutes ago, BuzzAndSting said:

I'm not thrilled about Totera working with the CPL. I was hoping he would become an objective voice who could speak for the fans through critiques and commentary about the league when necessary. 

I think we worry about criticism and oversight later.  At this point it is important to get as many people rowing in the right direction as possible.  

[BuzzAndSting]

41 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

I think we worry about criticism and oversight later.  At this point it is important to get as many people rowing in the right direction as possible.  

Totera being an objective outsider doesn't mean he's not rowing in the right direction, it means he might actually be able to steer them back on course when they stray to far from the right direction.

[BenFisk'sBiggestFan]

4 hours ago, BuzzAndSting said:

Totera being an objective outsider doesn't mean he's not rowing in the right direction, it means he might actually be able to steer them back on course when they stray to far from the right direction.

Wouldn’t you think that he would have more power to steer the organization from the inside? I’m sorry, but nobody knows totera outside of the big soccer fans. I think he is more valuable in the organization.

[BuzzAndSting]

32 minutes ago, BenFisk'sBiggestFan said:

Wouldn’t you think that he would have more power to steer the organization from the inside? I’m sorry, but nobody knows totera outside of the big soccer fans. I think he is more valuable in the organization.

My concern is that anyone on the inside may not be objective enough. Totera has always been a “say it like it is” kind of guy and that could have been good as an outsider.