CPL General

[Alex D]

38 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

If this quote is correct, it would imply that they have surpassed 4000 (Clarke's soccer capacity being 4153)

This is the most encouraging CPL tidbit to come out all year!

[Complete Homer]

 

 

[Bison44]

2 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

No shock that CFL types would be out to hinder soccer's progress, if you have been following Canadian soccer for a few decades. Hopefully, this doesn't follow the usual script at this point. The CFL usually gets what it wants when soccer's stadium interests conflict with what is convenient for them. There could easily be a waterfront SSS with a natural grass field in Vancouver and an MLS team in Ottawa otherwise.

They CFL types in Winnipeg seem to be getting along with soccer types.  Not all the old stereotypes are still valid.  A CFL partnership with a stadium might be the mean big brother scenario but they should be able to get along.  

[Ansem]

Question, the memberships, are they effectively a down-payment on future season tickets?

[Bison44]

Eskimos just use clarke as a back up and a practice facility?? 

[Ansem]

1 minute ago, Bison44 said:

Eskimos just use clarke as a back up and a practice facility?? 

yep. Pretty selfish of them

[Alex D]

13 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Question, the memberships, are they effectively a down-payment on future season tickets?

Yes

[Gopherbashi]

On 17/04/2018 at 4:25 PM, lazlo_80 said:

To those who live in that neck of the woods. Is York U a better location?

It's less bad than the OSC.

[CDNFootballer]

7 hours ago, Bison44 said:

"  Finally, owners pay a security bond each year amounting to between $250,000-$750,000 and a non-refundable participation fee of $150,000 each year. "

There is a new one I hadnt heard of before.  The article mentions this as a big expense but doesnt clarify who the bond is paid too.  

The D2 bond is $750k and is held in case the club needs the funds to complete a season if they have financial trouble for instance. The yearly participation fee, or league dues each year, is not new. Ottawa mentioned it when moving to USL as it was about $200k CDN roughly they had to pay last season and each year.

[Rheo]

Before everyone gets all up in arms at the “evil” CFL, the Esks pay rent at Clarke according to this http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/edmonton-eskimos-fc-edmonton-1.4625416

As the article says with some talking between the sides it is possible that everyone can win here 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Bison44 said:

They CFL types in Winnipeg seem to be getting along with soccer types.  Not all the old stereotypes are still valid.  A CFL partnership with a stadium might be the mean big brother scenario but they should be able to get along.  

Hmmm. My take, which is admittedly based on vague recollections of articles and attitudes past, is that Winnipeg FC will be the Bombers' bitch.

And IMHO the only reason Winnipeg FC was ever considered in the first place by the Bombers was to fill a considerable funding gap in paying for the new IG Field.

That is admittedly conjecture on my part; except for the considerable debt and required payments for IG Field, which is fact. For those who are interested, here is a CBC article from July 2017 on the ever-rising IG Field debt:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4214513

We shall see. But my expectation is that any profit generated by Winnipeg FC will be funnelled into the Bombers. The fact that Winnipeg FC is owned by the Bombers is less a pebble in my shoe and more a dagger in my heart. That ownership situation needs to change. The conflict of interest is too great.

Edited April 18, 2018 by dsqpr

[Bison44]

Ouch!  Now I feel sad.  Just when I was pumping myself up for the TFC2 game on youtube tonight.  Que the sad charlie brown piano music......

[Shortdutchcanuck]

Is Bob Young also part of the nefarious CFL Deep State conspiracy or does he get a pass because of his longterm interest in owning a soccer team?

Personally in Hamilton I'm more concerned with City Council being obstinate than being bullied by the TiCats.

[grasshopper1917]

1 hour ago, Bison44 said:

Ouch!  Now I feel sad.  Just when I was pumping myself up for the TFC2 game on youtube tonight.  Que the sad charlie brown piano music......

Just was checking that out. Stadium must be closed to fans?

Bad omen for a Toronto CPL team???

 

[BuzzAndSting]

17 minutes ago, Shortdutchcanuck said:

Is Bob Young also part of the nefarious CFL Deep State conspiracy or does he get a pass because of his longterm interest in owning a soccer team?

Personally in Hamilton I'm more concerned with City Council being obstinate than being bullied by the TiCats.

OSEG is another anti Canadian soccer CFL ownership group. I mean what have they done for Canadian soccer?!

[soccer.shocker]

Umm, they hosted part of the Women's World Cup in 2015 to be fair. But I get your point.

[BuzzAndSting]

2 minutes ago, soccer.shocker said:

Umm, they hosted part of the Women's World Cup in 2015 to be fair. But I get your point.

Not sure if you’re replying to my comment but I thought my sarcasm was clear. OSEG and John Pugh have been amazing supporters of Canadian soccer over the last few years. 

[Jason]

3 hours ago, Ansem said:

yep. Pretty selfish of them

They've had decades of calling their own shots and everyone listening.  Anyone remember the demands/restrictions they asked for when the ill-fated A-League Aviators played at Commonwealth?  Had to schedule around Eskimos and games had to be at least 2-3 days before or after a football game, and there were other things.

I don't think the actions of the Eskimos should be reflective of the entire CFL.  They have no stake in the league (unlike Hamilton, Winnipeg for example) and are asking about what's best for them.  And as I've said, they typically have gotten everything they've asked for.  Can't blame them for asking.  Negotiating tactics.

[Rheo]

2 minutes ago, Jason said:

They've had decades of calling their own shots and everyone listening.  Anyone remember the demands/restrictions they asked for when the ill-fated A-League Aviators played at Commonwealth?  Had to schedule around Eskimos and games had to be at least 2-3 days before or after a football game, and there were other things.

I don't think the actions of the Eskimos should be reflective of the entire CFL.  They have no stake in the league (unlike Hamilton, Winnipeg for example) and are asking about what's best for them.  And as I've said, they typically have gotten everything they've asked for.  Can't blame them for asking.  Negotiating tactics.

And you know they are paying rent at the venue and have a right to be ask questions. 

[Jason]

2 hours ago, dsqpr said:

Hmmm. My take, which is admittedly based on vague recollections of articles and attitudes past, is that Winnipeg FC will be the Bombers' bitch.

And IMHO the only reason Winnipeg FC was ever considered in the first place by the Bombers was to fill a considerable funding gap in paying for the new IG Field.

That is admittedly conjecture on my part; except for the considerable debt and required payments for IG Field, which is fact. For those who are interested, here is a CBC article from July 2017 on the ever-rising IG Field debt:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4214513

We shall see. But my expectation is that any profit generated by Winnipeg FC will be funnelled into the Bombers. The fact that Winnipeg FC is owned by the Bombers is less a pebble in my shoe and more a dagger in my heart. That ownership situation needs to change. The conflict of interest is too great.

I think a CPL club is not going to have much profit to funnel for a while. More likely it's going to be losses that need to be absorbed.   

Conflict of interest?  I don't get that.  More often than not, owners own more than one team across various sports.  Most of the time the issue is $.  I suspect the Bombers see the potential in this project, and also know that it will help fill stadium dates.  And they have the existing infrastructure (season ticket lists, sponsor relationships) and have deep enough pockets to withstand early losses.  If there was a true soccer lover in Winnipeg that was willing to pony up the cash to have a club, they could've done it by now.  USL and NASL would've taken anyone as long as their cheque cleared.  So the Bombers have stepped up. 

Would you feel differently if it was the Jets instead of the Bombers owning the CPL club?

[LAK]

!

Edited April 19, 2018 by LAK
not relevant

[LAK]

2 hours ago, dsqpr said:

Hmmm. My take, which is admittedly based on vague recollections of articles and attitudes past, is that Winnipeg FC will be the Bombers' bitch.

And IMHO the only reason Winnipeg FC was ever considered in the first place by the Bombers was to fill a considerable funding gap in paying for the new IG Field.

That is admittedly conjecture on my part; except for the considerable debt and required payments for IG Field, which is fact. For those who are interested, here is a CBC article from July 2017 on the ever-rising IG Field debt:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4214513

We shall see. But my expectation is that any profit generated by Winnipeg FC will be funnelled into the Bombers. The fact that Winnipeg FC is owned by the Bombers is less a pebble in my shoe and more a dagger in my heart. That ownership situation needs to change. The conflict of interest is too great.

My biggest contention with the Bombers owning the CPL team is that they are not "wealthy" owners. They don't have the kind of money we've been talking about that the owners need to have to sustain these clubs through the early years. I don't know where they're going to get their money from. After all, the bombers are a community owned team. You can see their finances and you can see there isn't much there.

[BuzzAndSting]

7 minutes ago, LAK said:

My biggest contention with the Bombers owning the CPL team is that they are not "wealthy" owners. They don't have the kind of money we've been talking about that the owners need to have to sustain these clubs through the early years. I don't know where they're going to get their money from. After all, the bombers are a community owned team. You can see their finances and you can see there isn't much there.

Doesn’t that bode well for the team though? If a fiscally responsible, community owned team headed by experienced sports executives thinks it’s a good investment that must mean solid prospects for the league.

Edited April 19, 2018 by BuzzAndSting

[Guest]

48 minutes ago, Jason said:

I think a CPL club is not going to have much profit to funnel for a while. More likely it's going to be losses that need to be absorbed.   

Conflict of interest?  I don't get that.  More often than not, owners own more than one team across various sports.  Most of the time the issue is $.  I suspect the Bombers see the potential in this project, and also know that it will help fill stadium dates.  And they have the existing infrastructure (season ticket lists, sponsor relationships) and have deep enough pockets to withstand early losses.  If there was a true soccer lover in Winnipeg that was willing to pony up the cash to have a club, they could've done it by now.  USL and NASL would've taken anyone as long as their cheque cleared.  So the Bombers have stepped up. 

Would you feel differently if it was the Jets instead of the Bombers owning the CPL club?

The Bombers do NOT have deep pockets! They are struggling just to make their payments on IG Field! (See my link above.) They have probably planned for a short ramp up period for Winnipeg FC, since that just makes sense, but it had better at least break even real fast or it will be gone, because the Bombers simply can't afford more losses.

There is a conflict of interest because if there is an operational surplus they can decide whether to invest in a better CFL product or a better CPL product -- no matter which team generated the surplus. I have no shadow of doubt that they will use any CPL profits to help the CFL arm -- which effectively puts a ceiling on the potential on-field success of the CPL team. There are other aspects to the conflict of interest too but I see that as the biggest one.

True North (who own the Jets) and Mark Chipman have demonstrated a desire to do the right things for the right reasons. So although I would have the same concerns if they owned the CPL team instead, I would also be hopeful that they would do the right thing anyway (invest CPL ptofits into the CPL team). Not to mention that the Winnipeg FC budget is likely to be pocket change compared to the Jets for the foreseeable future, so syphoning off any CPL profits wouldn't make much difference anyway.

The concerns I have seem blindingly obvious to me. It is hardly credible to think that I am the only potential CPL fan who has thought of this, or that the people running the Bombers are so stupid that they have not thought of it either. In which case they could very easily allay those concerns and instantly increase their potential fan base with a simple announcement that CPL revenue will be ring fenced. I await that announcement but I promise you I am not holding my breath.

Edited April 19, 2018 by dsqpr

[Kent]

6 minutes ago, dsqpr said:

The Bombers do NOT have deep pockets! They are struggling just to make their payments on IG Field! (See my link above.) They have probably planned for a short ramp up period for Winnipeg FC, since that just makes sense, but it had better at least break even real fast or it will be gone, because the Bombers simply can't afford more losses.

There is a conflict of interest because if there is an operational surplus they can decide whether to invest in a better CFL product or a better CPL product -- no matter which team generated the surplus. I have no shadow of doubt that they will use any CPL profits to help the CFL arm -- which effectively puts a ceiling on the potential on-field success of the CPL team. There are other aspects to the conflict of interest too but I see that as the biggest one.

True North (who own the Jets) and Mark Chipman have demonstrated a desire to do the right things for the right reasons. So although I would have the same concerns, I would also be hopeful that they would do the right thing anyway (invest CPL ptofits into the CPL team). Not to mention that the Winnipeg FC budget is likely to be pocket change compared to the Jets for the foreseeable future, so syphoning off any CPL profits wouldn't make much difference anyway.

I am not remotely close to being a legal expert, but I don’t think you are describing a conflict of interest. Wouldn’t a conflict of interest mean that you have a vested interest in seeing something fail? It’s not better for the Bombers for the CPL team to fail. What you are describing could be the case for any ownership group that owns another company. Didn't Peter Pocklington sell Gretzky to LA in part to cover for losses in his other businesses?