CPL General

[Rocket Robin]

but look!   Pittsburgh drew 1823 against Ottawa Fury in the rain last night!   While exponentially improving on their crowd for Toronto--by the summer time they will easily get 12000 right?  

 

 

 

Edited April 16, 2018 by Rocket Robin

[ktf]

Some really great points being made on here that I feel the need to validate/comment on...

Firstly, the AHL, CFL, and other minor pro leagues generally do have added perks that cut down the cost of living substantially. These can include big things like housing, but also various little expenses (transit pass, fitness/gym facilities, full medical benefits notably dental, food on the road/pre-games) that when put together make a salary of 30 to 40k very livable. I feel that if CPL teams have a "package" of this kind it could be highly attractive. For example, Victoria is a costly city, expecially housing, but add in some form of housing subsidy (or even a few team flats for younger players), a transit pass (85$/month), a gym pass, perhaps work with sponsoring restaurants/stores for food discounts for players, and add in coaching/running camps on the side and it would be very attractive to any young footballer looking to break into professional football.

Secondly, like the CFL, I assume many players will take advantage of the 4 to 6 months available to them for secondary income. I know people can see this as being a semi-pro aspect, but it has worked for the CFL for a long time.

Thirdly, I think they could use to make an announcement relatively soon. I understand the idea of trying to wait until they can unveil the whole package for next year, but if they do have any franchises (beyond Winnipeg and Hamilton) that are completing ready to be announced, why not give the fans a taste and unveal a couple more now and the rest in "60 to 90 days."

Finally, in terms of names, I feel they could use to be less creative! I suspect many of those are just back up options, but if many of us have to guess/have no idea who the name is for, that does probably not bode well. The York name works. BCFC for Surrey could be interesting if they plan to have other BC teams. What is wrong with simple city names? I know North America has an obsession with catchy names, but thinking about the European teams, why not just stick simple? HWFC, Victoria United, Calgary FC, etc. 

[Guest]

I have no problem with squads that include some youngsters who are on relatively small contracts compared to the core players. They probably live at home for the other 6 months of the year anyway. And in many cases would be playing for less or even nothing in a regional league if not for the CPL opportunity.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

5 hours ago, Rocket Robin said:

And USL Attendances?     Not many watching Toronto FC II who have played all their games on the road.  

March 17th  New York Red Bulls II     717   

March 24th  Charlotte  Independence   1026   

April 7th    Pittsburgh Riverhounds   840  

...

And you would expect a York 9 franchise to do hugely better than that after all your years of watching teams like the York Region Shooters playing in front of friends and family only level crowds? Say what you like about USL but I think you can be confident it will still be around 10 years from now given the stability that having MLS reserve and affiliate teams on board provides. Relatively high budget independent leagues that try to compete with rather than cooperate with the perceived major league tend to go the way of the IHL in hockey and the NASL in soccer. Here today gone tomorrow.

[Bbeto]

52 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

And you would expect a York 9 franchise to do hugely better than that after all your years of watching teams like the York Region Shooters playing in front of friends and family only level crowds? Say what you like about USL but I think you can be confident it will still be around 10 years from now given the stability that having MLS reserve and affiliate teams on board provides. Relatively high budget independent leagues that try to compete with rather than cooperate with the perceived major league tend to go the way of the IHL in hockey and the NASL in soccer. Here today gone tomorrow.

What a mess!. Center yourself!. I think it has nothing to do with reality.
I´m sorry

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

One additional snippet about the Edmonton city council committee meeting that is worth keeping an eye on is this part given it also ties into one of the properties listed in the CSB portfolio:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/canadian-premier-league-soccer-clarke-stadium-edmonton-1.4617855

...Fath Sports, which owns FC Edmonton, are also asking the city to provide a new operating agreement that would identify the soccer team as the main stadium partner and have requested naming rights for the venue... 

That may also be one of the reasons for the delay in Halifax, because from what I remember the City of Halifax wanted to retain naming rights where the Wanderers Ground popup was concerned.

Edited April 16, 2018 by BringBackTheBlizzard

[LAK]

2 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

One additional snippet about the Edmonton city council committee meeting that is worth keeping an eye on is this part given it also ties into one of the properties listed in the CSB portfolio:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/canadian-premier-league-soccer-clarke-stadium-edmonton-1.4617855

...Fath Sports, which owns FC Edmonton, are also asking the city to provide a new operating agreement that would identify the soccer team as the main stadium partner and have requested naming rights for the venue... 

That may also be one of the reasons for the delay in Halifax, because from what I remember the City of Halifax wanted to retain naming rights where the Wanderers Ground popup was concerned.

That meshes with the CSB plan as well. Naming rights were also mentioned in their list of potential revenue generators.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

https://the11.ca/big-day-for-canpl-next-wednesday-city-of-edmonton-to-discuss-making-changes-to-clarke-stadium-to-benefit-fc-edmonton/

...On the committee’s agenda for next week:

“Administration has received a request from Fath Sports for the City to provide the following, all of which require further discussion.

1. New operating agreement as primary venue partner

2. Permanent dressing room and laundry facilities

3. Canadian Premier League/FC Edmonton will be the exclusive professional soccer tenant of the City of Edmonton

4. Canadian Premier League/FC Edmonton will be the primary tenant of Clarke Stadium

5. Spectator seating is increased from 4,153 to 7,000 seats, plus standing room

6. Increased washrooms and concessions

7. Exclusion from existing City food service and beverage contracts

8. Naming rights for the field in Clarke Stadium

9. Upgraded lighting for broadcast, sound system, internet, and media services (play by play broadcast area)”

Fath said that the requests made of the city aren’t specific to FC Edmonton. These asks reflect “guidelines” that the CanPL has for all of its teams. So, taking that at face value, that would mean all CanPL teams will need 7,000-seat venues and the ability to control their dates – and concessions.

[lazlo_80]

8 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

https://the11.ca/big-day-for-canpl-next-wednesday-city-of-edmonton-to-discuss-making-changes-to-clarke-stadium-to-benefit-fc-edmonton/

...On the committee’s agenda for next week:

“Administration has received a request from Fath Sports for the City to provide the following, all of which require further discussion.

1. New operating agreement as primary venue partner

2. Permanent dressing room and laundry facilities

3. Canadian Premier League/FC Edmonton will be the exclusive professional soccer tenant of the City of Edmonton

4. Canadian Premier League/FC Edmonton will be the primary tenant of Clarke Stadium

5. Spectator seating is increased from 4,153 to 7,000 seats, plus standing room

6. Increased washrooms and concessions

7. Exclusion from existing City food service and beverage contracts

8. Naming rights for the field in Clarke Stadium

9. Upgraded lighting for broadcast, sound system, internet, and media services (play by play broadcast area)”

Fath said that the requests made of the city aren’t specific to FC Edmonton. These asks reflect “guidelines” that the CanPL has for all of its teams. So, taking that at face value, that would mean all CanPL teams will need 7,000-seat venues and the ability to control their dates – and concessions.

Considering the difficulties MLS had when it launched because of not controlling its own facilities this makes sense.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

It will be interesting to see how keen municipal governments are to play along with this sort of thing. Edmonton and Halifax are the test cases on this, with Surrey (trademarks being registered suggest things are moving in the right direction there) and Saskatoon (very quiet of late) still in the pipeline. K/W seems to have fallen by the wayside, because apparently there was no viable stadium solution that would meet these guidelines. York Region should be relatively easy given the OSA are the landlords and permissions for expansion are already in place, if somebody has stepped up who is willing to pay for it.

[Ansem]

59 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

York Region should be relatively easy given the OSA are the landlords and permissions for expansion are already in place, if somebody has stepped up who is willing to pay for it.

Terrible location for a CPL Stadium. Best to build a new one at Highway 407 Subway Station or as close as possible from Vaughan subway.

With Vaughan's delusions of grandeur, they'll sign anything.

Edited April 17, 2018 by Ansem

[LAK]

59 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

It will be interesting to see how keen municipal governments are to play along with this sort of thing. Edmonton and Halifax are the test cases on this, with Surrey (trademarks being registered suggest things are moving in the right direction there) and Saskatoon (very quiet of late) still in the pipeline. K/W seems to have fallen by the wayside, because apparently there was no viable stadium solution that would meet these guidelines. York Region should be relatively easy given the OSA are the landlords and permissions for expansion are already in place, if somebody has stepped up who is willing to pay for it.

It's been stated a few times now that York 9 would play out of York U stadium not the Soccer Centre.

[Ansem]

Just now, LAK said:

It's been stated a few times now that York 9 would play out of York U stadium not the Soccer Centre.

I think he means once hypothetically OSA would be expanded, to which I replied it was a terrible location

[lazlo_80]

1 hour ago, Ansem said:

I think he means once hypothetically OSA would be expanded, to which I replied it was a terrible location

To those who live in that neck of the woods. Is York U a better location?

[Complete Homer]

5 minutes ago, lazlo_80 said:

To those who live in that neck of the woods. Is York U a better location?

I'm not, but the fact that it is right on the subway line makes it far more accessible IMO

[Ansem]

7 minutes ago, lazlo_80 said:

To those who live in that neck of the woods. Is York U a better location?

It's great for a temporary venue. It's surrounded by the 2 new subway stations (York University & Pionner Village). It's excellent for perhaps a future North York D2 team

[Complete Homer]

Worth a read, particularly for the rough breakdown of revenue sources 

https://www.soctakes.com/2018/04/18/too-small-to-succeed-the-perils-of-owning-a-lower-division-pro-soccer-team/

Edited April 18, 2018 by Complete Homer

[Bison44]

8 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

Worth a read, particularly for the rough breakdown of revenue sources 

https://www.soctakes.com/2018/04/18/too-small-to-succeed-the-perils-of-owning-a-lower-division-pro-soccer-team/

"  Finally, owners pay a security bond each year amounting to between $250,000-$750,000 and a non-refundable participation fee of $150,000 each year. "

There is a new one I hadnt heard of before.  The article mentions this as a big expense but doesnt clarify who the bond is paid too.  

[Complete Homer]

27 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

"  Finally, owners pay a security bond each year amounting to between $250,000-$750,000 and a non-refundable participation fee of $150,000 each year. "

There is a new one I hadnt heard of before.  The article mentions this as a big expense but doesnt clarify who the bond is paid too.  

I'd heard about a similar thing in NASL, there was a bond paid to the league that was nonrefundable if you ceased operations mid season (acting as insurance that you wouldn't compromise the integrity of the competition) and a smaller nonrefundable fee to pay into centralized costs

My grain of salt with the article is that I strongly suspect he is talking to a couple of the "big" teams (Indy 11 being one of them). Only 3 teams actually revealed their cost structure in table 2. If a team losing 3 million a year uses 31% of their expenditure on player salary, they are at least spending 1 million+ on player wages (obviously much more considering the team must have some revenue). From previous reports we know that kind of player wage expenditure is only really seen in the upper crust like FCC, Rowdies, Sacramento, etc, and I think it's more likely that the heaviest losses are being taken by these teams that are gunning for MLS. Higher losses from player wages=better team=better attendance=greater chance of landing an MLS franchise, which might be worth the gamble for those involved. 

Other curious thing was that USL is not centralizing TV production costs. I know that was something criticised about NASL in the past, and it was chalked up to league ideology that they hadn't followed a more cost effective route. If USL is doing the same it makes me wonder if that had any truth to it

Edited April 18, 2018 by Complete Homer

[Complete Homer]

 

 

 

In the interest of not posting *every* tweet, a summary of the remaining live tweets:

Edmonton Wildcats express concern over the proposal

Edmonton citizen expressed support for the proposal as an attraction for people moving to Edmonton, referring to the game's global appeal

Another Edmonton citizen speaking in support of the proposal, referring to the part FC Edmonton plays in the city's diversity

Yeg4CPL speaks. Talked about their mission, how weekend games were key for attendance, the story of Shamit Shome, and that the city needs to put trust in soccer for it to succeed.

MacEwan University sporting director speaks in support of the FC Edmonton renovation

A council member asks how this will affect the Eskimos, Fath says he is willing to come to the table but current users hadn't been consulted.

A council member asks how the Eskimos currently use Clarke, they say they use it when Commonwealth is unavailable. When pressed if they see a way forward, the Eskimos say they are open to talking but any changes to Clarke would bring its contracts and relationships into question

A council member asks Fath how quickly he needs a decision and about FC Edmonton breaking even. I don't see the response on twitter

A council member asks if CPL's stadium requirements are "lines in the sand", Fath says they are just guidelines

 

If I'm interpreting this correctly, it means that more than 4000 season ticket deposits have been sold

TL;DR

Football at all levels came out against the proposal. General citizenry that showed up were in favour. FC Edmonton obviously spoke in their own favour. Universities/Colleges came out in favour. Also sounds like FC Edmonton's membership drive has been very successful

 

Edited April 18, 2018 by Complete Homer

[BenFisk'sBiggestFan]

Eskimos being asses as normal. Unwilling to move their practices to any other facilities.

council sounds like they are optimistic.

Fc Edmonton has more than doubled their season tickets from last year. So that would put it at 2000+ by my calculations.

[Rheo]

Edmonton Journal's early recap (looks like they'll keep updating it) of the meeting

http://edmontonjournal.com/news/local-news/football-leaders-push-back-against-soccer-plan-for-clark-stadium

Edited April 18, 2018 by Rheo

[Complete Homer]

8 minutes ago, BenFisk'sBiggestFan said:

Eskimos being asses as normal. Unwilling to move their practices to any other facilities.

council sounds like they are optimistic.

Fc Edmonton has more than doubled their season tickets from last year. So that would put it at 2000+ by my calculations.

If this quote is correct, it would imply that they have surpassed 4000 (Clarke's soccer capacity being 4153)

[Rheo]

12 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

If this quote is correct, it would imply that they have surpassed 4000 (Clarke's soccer capacity being 4153)

To quote Team America, "Fuck Yeah"  Seriously though, this is good news and impressive.  I'll reserve judgement on the CFL team's position until I hear a full rationalization of their situation rather than tweet summarizations.  I would guess that the amateur football teams would be the bigger issue than CFL practice facilities that are used in case of emergency.

Edited April 18, 2018 by Rheo

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

20 minutes ago, BenFisk'sBiggestFan said:

Eskimos being asses as normal. Unwilling to move their practices to any other facilities....

No shock that CFL types would be out to hinder soccer's progress, if you have been following Canadian soccer for a few decades. Hopefully, this doesn't follow the usual script at this point. The CFL usually gets what it wants when soccer's stadium interests conflict with what is convenient for them. There could easily be a waterfront SSS with a natural grass field in Vancouver and an MLS team in Ottawa otherwise.