Unnamed Trialist Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 Just sounds like overstating excuses about Winnipeg, you've decided you are pariahs and nothing anyone says can make you think differently. When it'd be easier to say a better coaching staff would do better, and better chosen signings at the same price would do better. Why don't you just argue that the 12th man is not doing its job, it seems just as logical? About university soccer in Manitoba, there is CCAA, which may not impress a lot of people, but just to comment: Pacific brought in players from CCAA level. There are programmes at Brandon, CMU, Assiniboine and St Boniface. That is a start, a low base but a base nonetheless. Is that reaching? johnyb 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonovision Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said: Just sounds like overstating excuses about Winnipeg, you've decided you are pariahs and nothing anyone says can make you think differently. When it'd be easier to say a better coaching staff would do better, and better chosen signings at the same price would do better. Why don't you just argue that the 12th man is not doing its job, it seems just as logical? About university soccer in Manitoba, there is CCAA, which may not impress a lot of people, but just to comment: Pacific brought in players from CCAA level. There are programmes at Brandon, CMU, Assiniboine and St Boniface. That is a start, a low base but a base nonetheless. Is that reaching? You read the Valour threads. You know we complain and criticize, ad nauseam, about the ownership, coaching, marketing, fan support, etc., of the squad. These are the biggest reasons Valour has done poorly. But the recruitment advantage certain teams have is an obvious factor that you have to be willfully blind not to notice. Effectively having to pay a premium on domestic players adds another mark against Valour that already is the most tight-fisted squad. I don't think there's anything wrong or self-serving about pointing this out. And Valour is simply too new on the scene to bear any responsibility for a local footballing environment that does not produce professional calibre players. I played "university soccer" at one of the schools you listed, and it simply is not anywhere near the level that will produce professionals (I would liken it to intramural sport at a big university). 2nd division men's league teams are better. Edited April 15 by jonovision johnyb, DoyleG and Unnamed Trialist 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aird25 Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 Haven't there been some decent footballers coming out of Winnipeg like Bustos and Froese? johnyb 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonovision Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 Just now, Aird25 said: Haven't there been some decent footballers coming out of Winnipeg like Bustos and Froese? There were a handful, mostly that went through the WFC system, about a decade ago, and really none since. johnyb 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unnamed Trialist Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 1 minute ago, Aird25 said: Haven't there been some decent footballers coming out of Winnipeg like Bustos and Froese? And Hiebert? Not to mention Joey Torchia! An Observer and johnyb 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unnamed Trialist Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 2 minutes ago, jonovision said: You read the Valour threads. You know we complain and criticize, ad nauseam, about the ownership, coaching, marketing, fan support, etc., of the squad. These are the biggest reasons Valour has done poorly. But the recruitment advantage certain teams have is an obvious factor that you have to be willfully blind not to notice. Effectively having to pay a premium on domestic players adds another mark against Valour that already is the most tight-fisted squad. I don't think there's anything wrong or self-serving about pointing this out. And Valour is simply too new on the scene to bear any responsibility for a local footballing environment that does not produce professional calibre players. I played "university soccer" at one of the schools you listed, and it simply is not anywhere near the level that will produce professionals. 2nd division men's league teams are better. I know your arguments are solid. I wonder about NCAA guys out of Minnesota, maybe not Canadians but still. Or Canadian NCAA guys who are coming out of schools in the northern midwest. I'm a VFC fan, Pacific too (can't shed Pacific just because VFC came along) but I really don't like to see Valour not do well, or any CPL club for that matter. I would prefer the table to be close, and for winning dynasties to be rotated, for the good of the league. At least until every club has had a piece of the pie, let's say--then let come what may. jonovision and johnyb 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narduch Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aird25 Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 This article is pretty positive, "the commissioner noted clubs have never been more competitive in spending than in 2024. Most clubs are pushing the limits of the league’s $1.21 million player cap." https://wanderersnotebook.ca/2024/04/15/we-have-a-salary-cap-and-its-a-hard-cap-cpl-commissioner-mark-noonan-talks-compliance-and-transparency/ narduch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narduch Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 Sounds like a reason to increase the cap by more jonovision, Aird25 and Kent 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonovision Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 3 hours ago, narduch said: Sounds like a reason to increase the cap by more Any cap increase must be accompanied by an equal or greater increase in the salary floor. narduch and Bison44 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yothat2 Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 On 4/15/2024 at 10:41 AM, Unnamed Trialist said: I know your arguments are solid. I wonder about NCAA guys out of Minnesota, maybe not Canadians but still. Or Canadian NCAA guys who are coming out of schools in the northern midwest. I'm a VFC fan, Pacific too (can't shed Pacific just because VFC came along) but I really don't like to see Valour not do well, or any CPL club for that matter. I would prefer the table to be close, and for winning dynasties to be rotated, for the good of the league. At least until every club has had a piece of the pie, let's say--then let come what may. There are ton of undrafted NCAA Canadians that valour could scout and bring in on trial ... johnyb and Mihairokov 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unnamed Trialist Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 Just now, yothat2 said: There are ton of undrafted NCAA Canadians that valour could scout and bring in on trial ... I'm sorry, I find the excuses untenable. They are on the same footing as the rest of clubs in Canada. There is a salary cap, they have a great little fanbase, from all accounts the team is run professionally. Basing the entire argument on, well, we don't have a local source of players, seems slim to me. HFX doesn't either. Cavalry had to divide up Alberta talent with Edmonton and still were able to manage from day one. Players travel, not just from other parts of Canada, from all over the world. They just spent a pre-season stage in Portugal. There is nothing there that cannot be overcome, especially if all we are asking is to fight for a playoff spot, no one is asking them to get through Concacaf Champions League rounds. Metro, Kingston, johnyb and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narduch Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 In case anyone cared. Unnamed Trialist, K Edgar, Mihairokov and 3 others 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kacbru Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 Are you just going to accept announced dimensions for the pitch? When I measure it off my TV screen it comes in way smaller. NVsoccer, K Edgar, Cheeta and 8 others 2 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingston Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 22 minutes ago, kacbru said: Are you just going to accept announced dimensions for the pitch? When I measure it off my TV screen it comes in way smaller. Isn't the cap on field size 7200 m2? How does Forge always get to be over? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shorty Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 1 hour ago, Kingston said: Isn't the cap on field size 7200 m2? How does Forge always get to be over? They’re lying. Tim Hortons is actually only 10 sq.m and is actually located inside a wardrobe in Narnia. Also Bobby Smyrniotis actually doesn’t have a beard — he’s the White Witch. And Triston Henry has never left. Ftduck 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narduch Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 James Easton, of the infamous Easton Report, talks about funneling our best players through only 3 MLS clubs is not enough. DoyleG 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_M Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 With the foundation in place, Noonan isn’t concerned with a report that some clubs, including Pacific FC and Valour FC, could be for sale. “Not at all,” Noonan said when asked about clubs being potentially for sale. “I mean, every club in the world is for sale unless they are a supporter-owned club. I can’t speak for the owners, but they would probably listen if the right offer came along. I would add that CPL is a very attractive proposition given where we are in our growth curve. We are an early-stage sports league with our best years ahead of us." https://www.transfermarkt.us/interview-cpl-commissioner-mark-noonan-on-expansion-club-sales-and-messi-impact/view/news/436687?s=04&fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR1_Ez-kHx3sytfbPnS2-QvlBbTRMoVXuCbftiVhUZ3gVrVKxd39eKxqUPo_aem_AZtW-g_V80P4VKVZVfGZoNXwWzmcwcTXw1Lqh8CvbY_JeoSLEIUMCx0nzHt8rpUyvTVHRFrHMXJ9rLQyMKv9gowl narduch and NVsoccer 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingston Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 16 hours ago, Big_M said: " I would add that CPL is a very attractive proposition given where we are in our growth curve. We are an early-stage sports league with our best years ahead of us." This reminds me of that double-edged aphorism: "You've got nothing but potential!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzie_the_parrot Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 One game against a League 1 club going to penalties can be written off as a freak result but when it happens two nights in a row... Think this shows that CanPL clubs (mainly those not spending at the cap) shouldn't rotate their squads for games like this because there are plenty of players in the major cities with the talent to play off the bench in CanPL but not necessarily the desire if they have a solid career underway doing something else. Nothing hugely unusual in any of that. Happens all over the world. I've seen some very talented players over the years playing for their local ethnic social club team in what often get dismissed on here as being "beer leagues", so I suspect that depth of talent isn't necessarily confined to the suburban youth club oriented League 1 setups. nolando and rkomar 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonovision Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 ^ A successful League 1 requires density of population and of soccer participation. This exists in the GTA (is there a single L1O premier league team further than one hour from Toronto?) and Ligue 1 Quebec (all but the Ottawa team are from Montreal + suburbs, as far as I can tell?) These leagues may have given some chances to players toiling in the more local "beer leagues" to show their talents. I'm not so sure the model can do all that much for the rest of the country, where geography and population densities make playing in a potential League 1 less convenient and not much more desirable than the current city or provincial league setup. Would playing for a team in the MMSL premier division be really all that much worse than playing against the same Winnipeg players in a League 1 Prairies team with a road trip or two to Saskatchewan each year? Other than a potential one-off Canadian Championship match every half dozen years, what's to be gained here? Aside from financial cost, there are major lifestyle costs to moving to a model where travel to opponents is 5-10 hours away, as would be the case in the prairies or Maritimes (or with exansion to further afield cities in BC, Ontario and Quebec). As an aside, this will be a further leg up for CPL cities in these areas, as for financial and lifestyle reasons it is much more feasible to earn peanuts playing in the CPL if one doesn't have to uproot oneself and move halfway across the country. I'm not saying this is a bad thing, as more opportunities Canadian soccer talent overall is great but it seems very unlikely to be spread evenly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aird25 Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 I think the results show that the investment in the overall pyramid is paying off. Quite a few players in these two teams spent time in CPL but didn't quite make it. Now they have a chance to compete at slightly lower level, and hopefully earn themselves another crack with a Premier League team Mihairokov, Bbeto, jonovision and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpursFlu Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 (edited) I think it shows we need more than 8 teams or raise the salary cap. You're just splitting hairs on so many of these players at that level and at that wage. And when you're talking about 20 21 22 year olds you can get a totally different player in the span of 12 months Edited May 3 by SpursFlu narduch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aird25 Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 (edited) 24 minutes ago, SpursFlu said: I think it shows we need more than 8 teams or raise the salary cap. You're just splitting hairs on so many of these players at that level and at that wage. And when you're talking about 20 21 22 year olds you can get a totally different player in the span of 12 months Polisi was decent as a lower end roster guy for Pacific. I didn't watch as much of players like Mejia, Escobar, Kane, Tabi etc. but I don't think they earned as many minutes Edited May 3 by Aird25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpursFlu Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Aird25 said: Polisi was decent as a lower end roster guy for Pacific. I didn't watch as much of players like Mejia, Escobar, Kane, Tabi etc. but I don't think they earned as many minutes I'm actually not that impressed with TSS guys as I was with the talent on the Quebec team. Let's also remember TSS lost to Victoria. So who plays on that team? Who knows. I think TSS is a tough out because those guys all know each other so well and play a system that makes them a tough out. Jones seems the most talented but unfortunately I guess his size holds him back. Not too sure I'm pretty sure if you went thru every League 1 team in the country you could put together 2 very solid CPL teams. Easy Edited May 3 by SpursFlu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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