CPL new teams speculation

[EnigMattic1]

23 minutes ago, Ansem said:

According to their own books, the organization as a whole is profitable but Valour does reduce their profitability potential. As an organization, you shouldn't be satisfy with the attendances being this low and changes are needed. It's up to staff to be better to sell the game in Winnipeg but up to owners to give the coach the tools to succeed on the pitch and for the coach with players to deliver.

If you look at MLSE, TFC is a money loser but overall - they are fine with the Maples Leafs and Raptors making up for the loses.

The Bombers makes the whole thing still make sense. Some birdies on this forum took the owner making a negative comment on attendance as a given that he's ready to give back the keys to the league. My personal opinion is that ownership "wants" this club and for it to succeed but I think they don't know how to manage a soccer club proper and keep managing it like a CFL club. I think this is where Forge is different. I get the perception that they understand that and manage both brands separately. If I'm right, Valour will eventually get the same treatment.

See, I have always seen the whole WFC/Bombers/Valour scenario as similar to the whole Rockstar/GTA/Red Dead scenario in the sense that the owners/developers favour the one that makes the most money and the other is usually left out.

[Big_M]

looks clear that noonan will accept expansion teams less easily...wants to make sure it will work out...doubt we get to 12 teams by 2026

[Watchmen]

1 hour ago, Ansem said:

The advantage of 3 BC club means that they could start the season earlier by having more games there at the start of the season

The weather in Kelowna would be more comparable to the rest of Canada vs the other two BC teams.

[Watchmen]

1 hour ago, jonovision said:

The truth is probably that without improvements in revenue (gate or otherwise) they will be in trouble. I don't think it's an immediate danger, but in 3 or 4 years there may be a decision to be made. But most of the league has similar gate revenues to Valour so they'll be in the same boat, but those organizations are not as public facing as WFC.

Do they treat the Valour, Blue Bombers, and the stadium as three separate revenue streams? I've assumed they have, which means they can "lose" more money on Valour but "make" more money on the stadium. Not saying Valour is profitable, but sometimes it just depends on how they want the books to look.

Edited May 16, 2023 by Watchmen

[Cicero]

49 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

The weather in Kelowna would be more comparable to the rest of Canada vs the other two BC teams.

Not really. Hamilton is probably the warmest outside of BC. March averages are high of 4.3, low of -4.5. Kelowna's are 10 and -2 for March. 15.5 and 1.3 for April vs 11.8 and 1.5 for Hamilton, so spring is much warmer in Kelowna than elsewhere other than the West Coast.

[toontownman]

I think prospective owners aren't rushing things at this stage. Getting it done right that will make a team sustainable is more important than getting it done as soon as possible. That's frustrating for us as supporters but the right path.

York is a very different scenario to Edmonton. I feel much more positive they will continue with new ownership, possibly branding.

Edmonton will come back in time. The roadblocks and impasse still seem to be there for now. Once common sense prevails someone will swoop back into that market and hopefully do it right.

SK will happen. If it's not Saskatoon it will be Regina. We will know this year about the former. FFS we should know by now but the council seems so behind on everything. It's 2025 for Saskatoon though. Likely at least a year or two longer if it has to be Regina. It Saskatoon happens I do think a Regina team will come within 10 years too. 

Windsor looks to be happening

Kelowna likewise just slowly

Somewhere in Quebec will pop up. Maybe two eventually.

Would rule out another surprise location like a 3rd Vancouver/BC team and the maritimes. 

Honestly believe we will be at 10 but hopefully 12 teams in 2026.

[Watchmen]

1 hour ago, Cicero said:

Not really. Hamilton is probably the warmest outside of BC. March averages are high of 4.3, low of -4.5. Kelowna's are 10 and -2 for March. 15.5 and 1.3 for April vs 11.8 and 1.5 for Hamilton, so spring is much warmer in Kelowna than elsewhere other than the West Coast.

I'm still not sure I'd put that in the "good" category, though I'll concede it's better than other areas.

[Aird25]

3 hours ago, Watchmen said:

I'm still not sure I'd put that in the "good" category, though I'll concede it's better than other areas.

Those averages seem much closer than what I’d expect Victoria’s averages to be. Regardless, it would be nice not to host all the early games and next to none of the summer games on the island 

[Kent]

I feel like the national team showed in the 2022 WCQ campaign that if you have the will, you can have early season games pretty much anywhere. Maybe a couple games have to be delayed if there is really extreme weather, but Hamilton hosted a game in January, Edmonton in a snowy November. I suppose it would probably be more expensive if you have to clear snow out of the stadium, etc, but @Aird25's point is a good one. You don't want the schedule too fully loaded early on, and then have long road trips later. It should be reasonably close to alternating home and away games (obviously can't be 100% alternating).

[BearcatSA]

1 hour ago, Kent said:

I feel like the national team showed in the 2022 WCQ campaign that if you have the will, you can have early season games pretty much anywhere. 

Yes, except the massive difference is that it's high stakes WCQ against big rep teams and not simply Week One or Two of a regular season domestic league.  Sure, you can play those matches, but what would the attendance be like? 

[Stanley]

21 hours ago, Cicero said:

Not really. Hamilton is probably the warmest outside of BC. March averages are high of 4.3, low of -4.5. Kelowna's are 10 and -2 for March. 15.5 and 1.3 for April vs 11.8 and 1.5 for Hamilton, so spring is much warmer in Kelowna than elsewhere other than the West Coast.

I live 45 minutes from Kelowna and we had snow on the ground from the start of November until April this past winter/spring. Not very warm.

[BearcatSA]

8 hours ago, Stanley said:

I live 45 minutes from Kelowna and we had snow on the ground from the start of November until April this past winter/spring. Not very warm.

Long, late winter this year.

[Cheeta]

9 hours ago, Stanley said:

I live 45 minutes from Kelowna and we had snow on the ground from the start of November until April this past winter/spring. Not very warm.

I live in Winnipeg.  WHAT THE FU'K ARE YOU COMPLAINING ABOUT!

I kid, I kid. ...

[EnigMattic1]

12 hours ago, Cheeta said:

I live in Winnipeg.  WHAT THE FU'K ARE YOU COMPLAINING ABOUT!

I kid, I kid. ...

I would move to Winnipeg in a heartbeat. Or, should that be 'Winter-Peg'?

[Stanley]

On 5/17/2023 at 8:33 PM, Cheeta said:

I live in Winnipeg.  WHAT THE FU'K ARE YOU COMPLAINING ABOUT!

I kid, I kid. ...

I'm not complaining, I'm leaving!

[Stanley]

On 5/19/2023 at 10:42 AM, Stanley said:

I'm not complaining, I'm leaving!

Not due to cold weather, due to summer smoke that's already hit.  Probably will cause a lot of summer games to be postponed each year if Kelowna did get a team.

[BearcatSA]

On 5/20/2023 at 10:48 AM, Stanley said:

Not due to cold weather, due to summer smoke that's already hit.  Probably will cause a lot of summer games to be postponed each year if Kelowna did get a team.

A potential factor, for sure.  I'm curious how July and August attendance will go, depending on the day and time.

[BearcatSA]

As we head into August, I wonder if we *might* start hear so more about a possible Kelowna team for 2025.  They'll need all that time to get their home stadium situation sorted out or otherwise it will be pushed back again to 2026.

[youllneverwalkalone]

Unless York is contracting, I feel like you probably want 2 teams in at the same time for scheduling purposes. Not that 10 really lends itself to a great schedule, but at least everyone plays each match day.

 

[MauditYvon]

League’s plan was to have 16 teams by 2026. We are in 2023 and Edmonton (1.1 millions), Montréal area (3.6 millions) and Québec (0.73 million) are not even in rumor talks. 

Edited July 29, 2023 by MauditYvon

[Big_M]

talk recently has more been about 12 teams by 2026...we have learned that noonan is a very cautious person...I have nothing against that...prefer seeing strong stable teams come in than force a bunch in because of a timeframe and see some fold...you need the right ownership and stadium which is very difficult to get...and then you need to get a bunch of other stuff right like the marketing...even now a big part of the focus is probably to help find new ownership for york and one of the sixfive teams and maybe even valour

https://canadiansoccerdaily.com/2023/04/15/cpl-chief-mark-noonan-will-be-disappointed-if-cpl-doesnt-have-12-teams-by-2026/

[Aird25]

49 minutes ago, MauditYvon said:

League’s plan was to have 16 teams by 2026. We are in 2023 and Edmonton (1.1 millions), Montréal area (3.6 millions) and Québec (0.73 million) are not even in rumor talks. 

I imagine the pandemic and CSA issues have stalled, or at least slowed expansion 

[Cicero]

1 minute ago, Aird25 said:

I imagine the pandemic and CSA issues have stalled, or at least slowed expansion 

Possibly related to the pandemic, but only Halifax hitting hoped-for attendance targets must be playing a role as well.

[Cicero]

Just now, Cicero said:

Possibly related to the pandemic, but only Halifax hitting hoped-for attendance targets must be playing a role as well.

Though to add to that thought, this season must be giving some optimism as Hamilton and Ottawa's attendance figures have definitely trended up. The competitiveness of the league this year is giving attendance a boost I think.

[Aird25]

4 minutes ago, Cicero said:

Possibly related to the pandemic, but only Halifax hitting hoped-for attendance targets must be playing a role as well.

What’s target? Ottawa and Forge are over 5k