Cyle Larin

[jpg75]

19 minutes ago, Fussball_eh said:

This

 

So you don't trust THOSE sources.

...now watch Larin sign with Besiktas.

[harrycoyster]

11 minutes ago, jpg75 said:

So you don't trust THOSE sources.

...now watch Larin sign with Besiktas.

When it comes to Turkish clubs there tends to be a ton of smoke before you see a fire. I don't know how closely you followed the Fabian Castillo to Turkey situation, but there was weeks of him being rumored to every club in Turkey, followed by the president of Transabspor (no way that is spelled right) attending a FC Dallas game, followed by weird clickbait Turkish articles connecting Castillo to the Colombian cartel, followed by the Turkish team lying to the player about a deal being made to get him on a plane to Turkey before a deal was finally made more than a month after every Turkish source said the Castillo to Trans. deal had been completed.

If Larin to Besiktas is in the works, we'll likely be flooded with "Larin to Turkey" articles well in advance of him signing.

Edited July 24, 2017 by harrycoyster

[jpg75]

4 minutes ago, harrycoyster said:

When it comes to Turkish clubs there tends to be a ton of smoke before you see a fire. I don't know how closely you followed the Fabian Castillo to Turkey situation, but there was weeks of him being rumored to every club in Turkey, followed by the president of Transabspor (no way that is spelled right) attending a FC Dallas game, followed by weird clickbait Turkish articles connecting Castillo to the Colombian cartel, followed by the Turkish team lying to the player about a deal being made to get him on a plane to Turkey before a deal was finally made more than a month after every Turkish source said the Castillo to Trans. deal had been completed.

If Larin to Besiktas is in the works, we'll likely be flooded with "Larin to Turkey" articles well in advance of him signing.

Relax. He made a grammatical error. I wanted to know which source he didn't trust because there were two different ones posted by BrennanFan. 

And yes i am aware of the reputation of the Turkish media making London tabloids look reliable after the Gokhan Tore saga and all the ex-players on Slaven Bilic's radar.

[Scorpion26]

Would like to see Larin in the Dutch league or France would be a nice leagues to join at this moment. 

I thought the Turkish league were having money problems or am I wrong?

[TRM]

4 hours ago, canta15 said:

Be careful what you say about Spain. @Unnamed Trialist will get ya

Or he might confirm it!!

[A_Gagne]

Many positives here. Opportunity to work his way into a more competitive environment, but not as large of a leap as compared with a top three league, but also a change to play champions league and showcase himself to the top leagues/clubs. Also massive club and would give him great experience playing under with a lot of pressure, and agree that it would be great for Atiba to be there to guide him.

[Unnamed Trialist]

I think folks simply do not understand how press rumour mills work and why they do. 

They are usually, and most specifically, started by player agents, and of course some publications are open to giving them play, since the summer is so boring and they lose readership terribly. But clubs use them too, either to say they are signing to help the team so fans relax, or to say that they are not overpaying for so and so, so the fans don't get teed off and the rest of the roster as well. Or that they are selling for a good price. Club managers, agents and press all work together on these campaigns.

Things happen that you'd be surprised by, and there are a lot favours going around. 

If you hear Larin to Besiktas for 5 million, what does that mean? 

First message, a lot of money for MLS and Orlando. That may just be Orlando appeasing its fans. Their season is mediocre, fans like Larin, so they need to hear a big figure to accept him going. Offers you can't refuse, which is how fan bases accept transfers of players liked who are producing. Otherwise, WTF, we sold him so cheap we can't get anything for what they paid us!!

It also could be the way for the agent to set out what he would like to see the player transfered for. Because the agent is shopping not only for a club for the player, but for his own commission. One team paying 5, another 6, another 7, none of that means much for the player, since he is probably going to find a similar salary in either club (three years at 600,000 euros, plus bonuses). So the transfer matters more to the agent. 

If he's sharp, he can get another team thinking about the player just on the basis of hearing what Besiktas is willing to pay. Larin is on the market means nothing, a team offering 5 million for Larin is a news story and generates hype. 

 

 

[Ruffian]

Orlando City pursuing Dom Dwyer from Sporting KC. Speculation that this is due to possibility of Larin leaving.

I would like to see him move soon since the whole driving incident and his recent slump. Go to a team where he needs to compete for starts in a quality league. Get away from the negative comments and I hope he does not put himself in any more situations like he did previously.

[harrycoyster]

1 hour ago, Ruffian said:

Orlando City pursuing Dom Dwyer from Sporting KC. Speculation that this is due to possibility of Larin leaving.

I would like to see him move soon since the whole driving incident and his recent slump. Go to a team where he needs to compete for starts in a quality league. Get away from the negative comments and I hope he does not put himself in any more situations like he did previously.

I wonder what on Earth Orlando can be offering SKC for their star striker that's led them to second place in the West. This is going to be a massive deal by MLS standards.

Edited July 25, 2017 by harrycoyster

[harrycoyster]

 

No players involved, just double the largest amount of allocation money ever traded in league history. If one  wants to read into Orlando City basically destroying their cap situation for the next few years, it probably means they are going after a number of high-end DPs, after their DP spots open up next season.

Edited July 25, 2017 by harrycoyster

[Guest]

I hate it how they say they trade in the MLS. When you're giving another team cash for a player, its a transfer

Edited July 25, 2017 by Guest

[Vince193]

4 minutes ago, canta15 said:

I hate it how they say they trade in the MLS. When you're giving another team cash for a player, its a transfer

It is a trade though. Dwyer's contract is still held by MLS. The NBA occasionally does the same thing, players for cash.

[Blackdude]

3 minutes ago, canta15 said:

I hate it how they say they trade in the MLS. When you're giving another team cash for a player, its a transfer

Well the player doesn't have to accept it. 

[Yohan]

14 minutes ago, Blackdude said:

Well the player doesn't have to accept it. 

In MLS, player doesn't have a choice, unless he's got a no trade clause. The player can do shenanigans to try to force a trade elsewhere or not

[harrycoyster]

16 minutes ago, Vince193 said:

It is a trade though. Dwyer's contract is still held by MLS. The NBA occasionally does the same thing, players for cash.

Correct. Every non-DP player in MLS is owned by MLS. Dwyer is basically just changing work locations. When you hear "Raheem Edwards signed a MLS contract!" that literally means he signed with MLS. It's part of the reason talking about the possibility of the CMLS teams moving to the CPL is incredibly complicated. TFC owns 3 senior players, MLS owns the rest. 

To get back on topic, I'm sure this means Larin is gone. Dwyer could play off Larin's shoulder, but neither are best suited for that system.

Edited July 25, 2017 by harrycoyster

[mpg_29]

Done deal.

https://www.orlandocitysc.com/post/2017/07/25/orlando-city-sc-acquires-dom-dwyer-sporting-kansas-city

Edit: so does this mean Cyle Larin is gone?...I mean why else would they acquire him?

Edited July 25, 2017 by mpg_29

[mpg_29]

 

[harrycoyster]

57 minutes ago, mpg_29 said:

 

MLS Transfers isn't a good source, but if OCSC does plan to keep Larin I'd imagine they are going to ask him to play more with the ball at his feet (like Altidore in Toronto or Saborio in the Kreis RSL set-up). Kreis gets to move back to his preferred 442 Diamond.

[mpg_29]

12 minutes ago, harrycoyster said:

MLS Transfers isn't a good source, but if OCSC does plan to keep Larin I'd imagine they are going to ask him to play more with the ball at his feet (like Altidore in Toronto or Saborio in the Kreis RSL set-up). Kreis gets to move back to his preferred 442 Diamond.

Follow up tweet:

 

[Ruffian]

3 minutes ago, mpg_29 said:

Follow up tweet:

 

I hope in the second half of the season he is able to get out of his funk and put on a good show for his suitors

[mpg_29]

More info on Larin from another source:

http://www.espnfc.us/major-league-soccer/story/3164795/orlando-city-have-deal-to-acquire-dom-dwyer-from-sporting-kansas-city-source

Meanwhile, Orlando has no intention of moving forward Cyle Larin this season to make room for Dwyer, a league source told ESPN FC's Jeff Carlisle, though another source said there are three offers on the table for the Canadian forward.

It is in Orlando's interest to wait until the end of the season to move Larin. According to MLS roster rules, waiting until the end of the 2017 campaign will see Orlando secure two-thirds of any transfer fee, as opposed to one-half if he were to leave now.

 

[harrycoyster]

This tweet and the tweet chain following it exposes one of my biggest issues with MLS. Olimpiakos bid $3 million for Dwyer last year, yet here he is being traded for $1.6 million. Why? SKC is actually better off accepting this deal.

Here's what happens if SKC accepts the $3 million offer from Olimpiakos:

-The league gets 33% of the transfer fee. $1 million in this case.

-Of the remaining $2 million, none of it is eligible to be used as TAM or GAM, and since MLS pays the players, that $2 million can only be used administratively or on a DP. Except that if you use it on a DP, you lose $480,625 in cap space, TAM or GAM, and if you use the money on admin you lose a bunch of money to taxes. 

So in total SKC gets $2 million net, or $1.5 net if the money is spent on a DP with a potential lose of limited GAM/TAM resources. Maybe $1.5 million of net value.

 

Here's what happened in the trade:

-SKC gets $1.6 million. 900k in TAM/GAM this season and 700k next.

-That money can literally be spent anywhere on the roster. Have a player that you need to move above the max salary threshold to keep? Done. Want to pay down a DP? Done. Want to sign 2-3 players for 500k each? Easy.

-SKC can spend up to $1.6 million on a player and not use up a DP slot (which they can still use...or not and have an extra 400k on the salary cap.

So in total SKC gets $1.6 million net of the most useful currency in MLS, that is estimated at nearly double the worth of regular DP money. At least $2.5 million in net value. 

 

 

[Stryker911]

37 minutes ago, harrycoyster said:

This tweet and the tweet chain following it exposes one of my biggest issues with MLS. Olimpiakos bid $3 million for Dwyer last year, yet here he is being traded for $1.6 million. Why? SKC is actually better off accepting this deal.

Here's what happens if SKC accepts the $3 million offer from Olimpiakos:

-The league gets 33% of the transfer fee. $1 million in this case.

-Of the remaining $2 million, none of it is eligible to be used as TAM or GAM, and since MLS pays the players, that $2 million can only be used administratively or on a DP. Except that if you use it on a DP, you lose $480,625 in cap space, TAM or GAM, and if you use the money on admin you lose a bunch of money to taxes. 

So in total SKC gets $2 million net, or $1.5 net if the money is spent on a DP with a potential lose of limited GAM/TAM resources. Maybe $1.5 million of net value.

 

Here's what happened in the trade:

-SKC gets $1.6 million. 900k in TAM/GAM this season and 700k next.

-That money can literally be spent anywhere on the roster. Have a player that you need to move above the max salary threshold to keep? Done. Want to pay down a DP? Done. Want to sign 2-3 players for 500k each? Easy.

-SKC can spend up to $1.6 million on a player and not use up a DP slot (which they can still use...or not and have an extra 400k on the salary cap.

So in total SKC gets $1.6 million net of the most useful currency in MLS, that is estimated at nearly double the worth of regular DP money. At least $2.5 million in net value. 

 

 

MLS rules are dumb....

[Unnamed Trialist]

I don't get Orlando's rationale. They cannot ensure Larin`s value in half a year. The only advantage Larin gives them is that he is cheap for the goals he is expected to score.

First, any offer on the table over over 2.5-3 million is a sure thing and worth taking. You cannot ensure that it will be there in the Xmas window. Further, things change over the course of a season. Teams interested now, building a roster with a coach wanting to prepare his side, may not be interested in 6 months, they may be doing well, someone else may have stepped up, they may not feel like disrupting the group. Very few winter transfers work in the European leagues in fact.

Then, Larin could have a bad rest of the season. He was on pace last year, and the start of this. The last 2 months he has fallen off. What if that continues? His value would drop. So another factor to say, take it now.

Someone argued that they'd get a half of a transfer now, 2/3 at the end of the season. At a 3 milion transfer that is a difference of half a million. It is not a huge amount. At a 5 million transfer that is 900 grand difference, better.

Then, they are talking about buying someone now, for more than they'd get for the Larin transfer out. So, basically, they are saying money is not an object, results are. Also considering Dwyer's salary, just under 700 grand guaranteed. And paying for the transfer. So the rationale of making more later is not there: they are interested in spending now for results and do not believe Larin is going to step up with way more goals and help them get them. Otherwise there would not be more competition, they have Barnes, for example, who is actually making more than Dwyer, by almost 100 grand.

Now is the best time to sell Larin if that is what they want to do.

 

Edited July 25, 2017 by Unnamed Trialist

[lazlo_80]

To give up 1.6m in allocation for Dwyer, they have to be pretty confident they'll be getting something for Larin. Maybe not during this summer transfer but by next season he's gotta be gone or they won't even have enough cash to field a team.