CNL: Canada vs Jamaica - Tuesday, November 21st - 7:30pm EST / 4:30pm Pacific - Toronto

[nolando]

18 minutes ago, BearcatSA said:

After re-watching that second half, the momentum change occurred in large part because Damion Lowe was moved into a more advanced destroyer midfield role from C, replacing Latibeaudiere, with the veteran Hector brought into CB.  Boy, did he disrupt things:  his excellent reading of the Eustaquio pass to Davies led to the interception and then rapid counterattacking sequence in the 47th minute which ended with an unmarked Bailey crashing his shot off the bar.  Later, Lowe took a hard foul on Eustaquio for which he was booked but also stopped Laryea's run as well as assisting of course closing down and stripping Eustaquio for the first Nicholson goal.  He was my MOTM.  Great coaching move by the Jamaican coaching staff.

And then, after conceding, we decided to go all Clubber Lang on them, with too many guys losing their positional awareness while pressing deep on the attack, and then they Rocky Balboa counterpunched us with a 3 on 2 fast break off the turnover to take the lead.  Brutal!

Great analysis!

[BearcatSA]

5 minutes ago, nolando said:

Great analysis!

Are you a Rocky fan?

[BearcatSA]

I see that Oliver Platt agrees with me about Lowe and how that wasn't properly counteracted.

 

[Aird25]

1 hour ago, dyslexic nam said:

He struggled a few years ago but has been playing well in Europe (Greece then Switzerland) for 2 years now.  I would think a starting CB for Malmo could play comfortably in MLS.  He is ahead of those guys in the pool IMO. 

Sure, I could be wrong but I don't remember seeing him play on the right much though. It just seemed odd not to have another option given Vitoria's age

[Pomoxis]

52 minutes ago, BearcatSA said:

I see that Oliver Platt agrees with me about Lowe and how that wasn't properly counteracted.

 

Unfortunate that Gareth Wheeler's rambling rantings took up twice the time of either Oliver or Jordan, both of whom appear to actually know something about the game.

[BearcatSA]

Just now, Pomoxis said:

Unfortunate that Gareth Wheeler's rambling rantings took up twice the time of either Oliver or Jordan, both of whom appear to actually know something about the game.

At least politely (maybe passive aggressively?), Platt started his analysis by stating that he just wanted to talk about the game itself, and many of his and Wilson's comments were in sync with what I saw.

I don't know anything about Lowe with the Philly Union in MLS but he looked like the second coming of Amrabat in the second half of this match.

[Footyeh]

https://x.com/SamAdekugbe/status/1727512818944221509?s=20 

Stupid comment from Sam.  

Everything J. Wilson said is true, we were riding a wave during qualifying, its over and done. 

 

[jhoops__]

Thin skinned athletes 

[prairiecanuck]

On 11/21/2023 at 8:41 PM, AvroArrow said:

I'm confused here about the blame here.  We gave up two goals because we gave up the ball on tackles with the rest of our team moving in the opposite direction.  Can't give up the ball like that.

The first goal Johnston played a pass to the middle and vacated his position.  Stef had no one to pass to.  Laryea was far too far up the pitch.  Cornelius was waving his hands an not aware of the danger and didn't get his man.  We had 3 players out of position on that first goal and Johnston could have avoided all of it by playing it up the wing in the first place.  It was obvious Jamaica was going to come out and press because they needed goals.

On the second Laryea was too far up the pitch again and Kone was fouled. How do you get an odd man break like that when you are trying to protect a lead.  We could have done things tactically to make sure saw the game off and protected the lead.  These things should have been drilled into the guys at half time.  Instead we just felt on top of the world because we were so good in the first.  Players and coaching faultered.  

This can be a learning experience for players, and we can just replace the manager.  HIs substitutions made zero sense in my opinion.  I still believe we will beat Costa Rica, but we have to turn the ship around.  

[prairiecanuck]

On 11/21/2023 at 8:41 PM, AvroArrow said:

I'm confused here about the blame here.  We gave up two goals because we gave up the ball on tackles with the rest of our team moving in the opposite direction.  Can't give up the ball like that.

The first goal Johnston played a pass to the middle and vacated his position.  Stef had no one to pass to.  Laryea was far too far up the pitch.  Cornelius was waving his hands an not aware of the danger and didn't get his man.  We had 3 players out of position on that first goal and Johnston could have avoided all of it by playing it up the wing in the first place.  It was obvious Jamaica was going to come out and press because they needed goals.

On the second Laryea was too far up the pitch again and Kone was fouled. How do you get an odd man break like that when you are trying to protect a lead.  We could have done things tactically to make sure saw the game off and protected the lead.  These things should have been drilled into the guys at half time.  Instead we just felt on top of the world because we were so good in the first.  Players and coaching faultered.  

This can be a learning experience for players, and we can just replace the manager.  HIs substitutions made zero sense in my opinion.  I still believe we will beat Costa Rica, but we have to turn the ship around.  

[DeRo_Is_King]

7 hours ago, Footyeh said:

https://x.com/SamAdekugbe/status/1727512818944221509?s=20 

Stupid comment from Sam.  

Everything J. Wilson said is true, we were riding a wave during qualifying, its over and done. 

 

Link's broken. 

[jhoops__]

Think he said opps  towards Jordan…

[narduch]

16 minutes ago, DeRo_Is_King said:

Link's broken. 

He deleted it

[dyslexic nam]

8 hours ago, Footyeh said:

https://x.com/SamAdekugbe/status/1727512818944221509?s=20 

Stupid comment from Sam.  

Everything J. Wilson said is true, we were riding a wave during qualifying, its over and done. 

 

What was in the tweet?   It got deleted.  

[Obinna]

11 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

He struggled a few years ago but has been playing well in Europe (Greece then Sweden) for 2 years now.  I would think a starting CB for Malmo could play comfortably in MLS.  He is ahead of those guys in the pool IMO. 

 

[CanadaFan123]

We’re all emotional but the players matched the energy in the stadium in the 2nd half: naive, cocky and quiet. We all expected to go out and win 3-0 but Jamaica had other plans. Hindsight is 20/20 but why the hell did we feel the need to play 2 strikers up 2 at home? That left us with no options when we did need a goal. 
 

This isn’t a disaster like the Honduras or Haiti losses. This one is just so disappointing. 
 

It gets one thinking about squad selection moving forward though, surely. Godinho became a CMNT outcast because of the Haiti loss. He’s now turned his career around yet remains on the outside looking in. At this stage I think we need to stop picking favourites and get a real tactical identity for 2024. 
 

Wheeler actually had a decent idea. Johnston at the 6?
 

The honest truth of the whole matter: we spit in the faces of the soccer gods. We won an away leg 2-1 that could have gone either way and then we come home and decide “no, a result isn’t good enough - we need to run up the score and put on a show”. That’s not Canada soccer. We were undefeated for 13 years in Toronto because we played responsible ball. Jamaicas main strength is their attack and we invited a shootout with them by not controlling midfield. All we had to do was concede 1 or fewer goals and we go through.. 

Years past we needed goals and could only get clean sheets. Now we need a clean sheet and we forget how to play responsible/boring football. 

Edited November 23, 2023 by CanadaFan123

[Metro]

https://www.thestar.com/sports/soccer/why-canada-s-mortifying-loss-to-jamaica-is-just-one-symptom-of-an-organization-in/article_ebace798-63bc-5b7e-b92d-ed50d8eb3397.html

Opinion piece in the Toronto Star today about the match from Joe Callaghan.

It's behind a paywall so I will summarize by listing a few of the damning quotes:

 Tuesday’s stunning second-half collapse and defeat to Jamaica was the death knell and ceremonial end of the John Herdman era, even if its official end had come four months earlier. With nothing approaching a plan, Canada Soccer had tried to stretch the Englishman’s transformational tenure out to year’s end by putting his former assistant Mauro Biello in interim charge, in spite of the fact that Herdman’s version of the team had already sputtered badly through the summer.

It was primarily the kind of startling defeat that demands bold answers, bold decisions. Canada Soccer, however, doesn’t have anyone to make any decisions right now, let alone bold ones. They can’t and won’t come from Biello who was technically in charge but in limbo too.

Ahead of this camp, Biello had spoken in Herdmanian refrains about the “brotherhood” of the group helping it end a tough year on the right note. But once the Jamaicans made one minor halftime adjustment Tuesday, Canada was suddenly a dysfunctional family.

(Borjan's) performances had already diminished to a point where preferring him over Dayne St. Clair made no footballing sense. There are others being picked on fondness rather than form. Jonathan Osorio and Mark-Anthony Kaye endured alarmingly poor seasons in MLS yet both were brought in Tuesday night when Biello made belated and flawed substitutions.

When Canada purred in the first half with Alphonso Davies and Tajon Buchanan on song, you were reminded how good this team can be in an attacking sense. But when Jamaica found a foothold, Canada’s soft centre and defensive ineptitude were glaring. Those are long-standing issues that must be addressed by a permanent, preferably qualified and experienced, coach given plentiful opportunities to address quality deficits in key areas.

[Obinna]

I am mostly/kinda/not really moved on from this now, so I hesitate to bring this up as it doesn't change anything, but I can't help but feel our buy into the QF round was more of a curse than a gift.

Think about it, Panama blew Costa Rica out of the water. Jamaica edged Canada. Honduras pushed Mexico to the brink, and T&T made life difficult for the USA, which was supposed to be the most loppsided match up.

The two group winners from the play-in round advanced to the semi-final and the runners up were competitive.

This is not dissimilar to the preliminary rounds we and Panama had to go through for WCQ. That really started the rise for both countries, as we finished on top and went to the WC, while Panama were competitive throughout and were unlucky to just miss out. 

So next time we are in this situation of having to maintain our concacaf ranking to avoid the play-ins, let's be careful what we wish for. While Jamaica were playing 4 games over 2 windows, we played a single game over 2 windows and got played off the park.

And even if we played friendlies they don't match competitive games, even if the opponents are stronger. USA and Mexico played Germany and Ghana prior to this window and both struggled against Trinidad and Honduras who by then were boosted by their qualification into the quarter final. I really believe that's why the gap was closed.  

[PastPros]

In the One Soccer clip, Wheels talks about some of the players bringing up the labour issue the day before the game. He said it was a some of the younger players.

Does anyone know who he is referring to?

I always assumed it was guys like Osorio, Henry and Kaye (based on their role within the team, public comments they had made etc)

[Obinna]

1 minute ago, PastPros said:

In the One Soccer clip, Wheels talks about some of the players bringing up the labour issue the day before the game. He said it was a some of the younger players.

Does anyone know who he is referring to?

I always assumed it was guys like Osorio, Henry and Kaye (based on their role within the team, public comments they had made etc)

I guess that makes sense though? The younger players (in general) have earned less money in their careers and thus would be more invested, perhaps...

Oso and even Kaye have made some good coin at this point. If you're Oso making over 1M for the past 3-4 seasons how fussed are you about WC bonus money versus a guy like Kone (just an example) who is only into his 2nd pro season now.

Maybe that's a bad example as he's probably very comfortable now at Watford, but you see where I am going...

[CanadaFan123]

15 minutes ago, PastPros said:

In the One Soccer clip, Wheels talks about some of the players bringing up the labour issue the day before the game. He said it was a some of the younger players.

Does anyone know who he is referring to?

I always assumed it was guys like Osorio, Henry and Kaye (based on their role within the team, public comments they had made etc)

That doesn’t make sense to me. The “younger players” are Kone, JRR and LDF. The next youngest is Davies. 

[PastPros]

14 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

That doesn’t make sense to me. The “younger players” are Kone, JRR and LDF. The next youngest is Davies. 

I took it as "younger" rather than "youngest".

I would think it would have to be guys that have been with the program for a couple of years. And guys who aren't afraid of losing their place for speaking out.

Edited November 23, 2023 by PastPros

[PopePouri]

13 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

I see that Oliver Platt agrees with me about Lowe and how that wasn't properly counteracted.

 

That was my suspicion as well. Basically stacked the midfield, and pressed higher. Great adjustments from their coach.

[Joe MacCarthy]

Platt makes a good point about Vitoria

 

[grigorio]

4 hours ago, jhoops__ said:

Think he said opps  towards Jordan…

He did with I think this emoji 🤦🏾‍♂️...

But what's that supposed to even mean. "Oops" in that what Jordan's saying is a mistake and is wrong? "Oops" in that he acknowledges they've fucked up of late? Or, "Opps" which is some new slang no one knows about like when Jr's 🧢 caught everyone off guard