CNL: Canada vs Jamaica - Tuesday, November 21st - 7:30pm EST / 4:30pm Pacific - Toronto

[RS]

38 minutes ago, Jedi Ram said:

Not getting into Vancouver - BMO debate. 

But he's trying so hard to start it up over the past week or so.

He says "a MINIMUM of 40,000" as if that's been a normal figure at BC Place for previous MNT games not involving Mexico (with tons of Mexicans in attendance) or the cancelled Iran game (same thing). Just ignore it.

[Metro]

2 minutes ago, gator said:

I don't want to be overly critical of Davies, he was involved in both our goals but at times we are too reliant on him, everything has to go through him and teams figure this out very quickly especially when he is played further up the pitch and they frustrate him! I am also not a fan of him taking the majority of our set pieces, he is mostly poor with the delivery, I prefer him as a fullback or wingback and wish that would be where he plays the majority of the time!

I don't think this is a criticism against Phonsie but rather Biello and the staff.  Phonsie is a baller and his competitive nature wants him to take over matches as much as possible.  It's up to Biello to appoint roles to each player and make sure they all respect them. 

If we can see that Phonsie is not the best options for set pieces, then so should the coaches.

[Lansdude]

3 minutes ago, jhoops__ said:

This will also allow us to develop our young wingers.  Those guys could provide a youthful spark up top. 

And we can use AJ, Laryea, Adekugbe as subs given where the match is going. We don't need to pick the guys with the highest FIFA ratings and work our way down. And if management trusts the players at their positions it sends a message to the players (Davies) to trust them to do their job as well.

[dyslexic nam]

4 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

This is good in theory but it’s not like we have any better wingers to play in their place. We have Liam Millar on the team and I guess corbeanu in the pool, but I’m not entirely confident starting those two guys and putting Davies and TB in the backline will solve much. 

I sort of have the opposite conclusion.  I think Millar, Hoilett, Corbeanu etc would be decent options on the wings, and if they are supported by overlapping runs by AD and TB, the flank attacks would be killer.   I think both of them are at their most dangerous when they are at full speed and that mainly happens when they overlap and hit defenders already in full flight.  

We are still trying to get our best 11 players on the pitch and trying to find a formation that allows for it, rather than using players in their best positions.  I’d like to see this approach adjusted a bit.  

[PastPros]

53 minutes ago, Metro said:

We need to stop permanently scarring our kids. 😄 

I watched with my daughter. (The only other game she previously watched was vs. Croatia.)

She walked away after the penalty saying: "How can you watch this? It's so frustrating!"

I doubt she will ever watch another minute. Thanks Obama.

Edited November 22, 2023 by PastPros

[jhoops__]

Seriously though, every Bayern manager has seen AD as a LB and yes they have elite wingers but this guy being the best LB in the world plays out of position for our middling club.   It’s never made any sense.

[RS]

28 minutes ago, CCrTFC said:

Mauro Biello and being on the losing end on a rainy November night at BMO. Iconic Duo. 

I know you're making a joke, but this is a very good point.

Biello's game management hasn't grown at all since that epic playoff series from seven years ago. Like his Impact team from 2016, Canada held an aggregate advantage well into the second half but crumbled late and ultimately lost.

The script played itself over again, just without the need for extra time. 

[InglewoodJack]

14 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

I sort of have the opposite conclusion.  I think Millar, Hoilett, Corbeanu etc would be decent options on the wings, and if they are supported by overlapping runs by AD and TB, the flank attacks would be killer.   I think both of them are at their most dangerous when they are at full speed and that mainly happens when they overlap and hit defenders already in full flight.  

We are still trying to get our best 11 players on the pitch and trying to find a formation that allows for it, rather than using players in their best positions.  I’d like to see this approach adjusted a bit.  

I agree with this in concept but I think it ignores the elephant in the room which is that beyond absolutely everything we discuss, this team has a talent deficit and a shallow pool. Millar and Corbeanu are very fine players, two of my personal favourites and two players I have high hopes for. That said, neither are players you play in a do or die game like last night’s, not at this point in their career. I try your proposed lineup against Barbados or St. Lucia, but Jamaica, for a spot in Copa, you can’t rely on guys like that; they’re just not the players TB and Davies are, in or out of position.

 

I hope both prove me wrong at their clubs though. Still a lot of game between now and when the team gets back together next, so maybe Liam starts banging some in, maybe Corbeanu keeps up his assists and bangs in a couple himself too and all of a sudden we can play Davies and TB in the back. But where our players currently are at, I don’t really see it, unfortunately. 

[InglewoodJack]

10 minutes ago, jhoops__ said:

Seriously though, every Bayern manager has seen AD as a LB and yes they have elite wingers but this guy being the best LB in the world plays out of position for our middling club.   It’s never made any sense.

Hey, every professional CB was a U10 striker growing up, and I think that’s a good way to look at why we play certain players in certain positions. 

[Lansdude]

2 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

I agree with this in concept but I think it ignores the elephant in the room which is that beyond absolutely everything we discuss, this team has a talent deficit and a shallow pool. Millar and Corbeanu are very fine players, two of my personal favourites and two players I have high hopes for. That said, neither are players you play in a do or die game like last night’s, not at this point in their career. I try your proposed lineup against Barbados or St. Lucia, but Jamaica, for a spot in Copa, you can’t rely on guys like that; they’re just not the players TB and Davies are, in or out of position.

 

I hope both prove me wrong at their clubs though. Still a lot of game between now and when the team gets back together next, so maybe Liam starts banging some in, maybe Corbeanu keeps up his assists and bangs in a couple himself too and all of a sudden we can play Davies and TB in the back. But where our players currently are at, I don’t really see it, unfortunately. 

AD and TB aren't being taken off the field. They will still be heavily involved. The players coming out of the starting team would be Laryea/Johnston/Adekugbe. You can't tell me having AD/TB further back, putting our natural wingers further up the field and removing the usual starting fullbacks is going to mean we're throwing caution to the wind against a team like Jamaica. The alchemy might not work as well but we don't know until we try and the current philosophy has obvious drawbacks.

[dyslexic nam]

4 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

I agree with this in concept but I think it ignores the elephant in the room which is that beyond absolutely everything we discuss, this team has a talent deficit and a shallow pool. Millar and Corbeanu are very fine players, two of my personal favourites and two players I have high hopes for. That said, neither are players you play in a do or die game like last night’s, not at this point in their career. I try your proposed lineup against Barbados or St. Lucia, but Jamaica, for a spot in Copa, you can’t rely on guys like that; they’re just not the players TB and Davies are, in or out of position.

 

I hope both prove me wrong at their clubs though. Still a lot of game between now and when the team gets back together next, so maybe Liam starts banging some in, maybe Corbeanu keeps up his assists and bangs in a couple himself too and all of a sudden we can play Davies and TB in the back. But where our players currently are at, I don’t really see it, unfortunately. 

I wouldn’t have an issue seeing a lineup like this in a big game:

                Larin

Millar           David        Hoilett

          Kone     Eustaquio 

Davies Miller Cornelius Buchanan

                 Crepeau

[Obinna]

17 minutes ago, PastPros said:

I watched with my daughter. The only other gane she ever watched was vs. Croatia. She walked away after the penalty saying: "How can you watch this? It's so frustrating!"

Watching Canada impode and then having to put on a brave face once the match ends and normal life resumes is the ultimate training in emotional self control. 

[GasPed]

1 minute ago, dyslexic nam said:

I wouldn’t have an issue seeing a lineup like this in a big game:

                Larin

Millar           David        Hoilett

          Kone     Eustaquio 

Davies Miller Cornelius Buchanan

                 Crepeau

I'm not convinced that exchanging Laryea (or Adekugbe) + Johnston for Millar + Hoilett is a great swap.  It would be great  to see our best players out on the pitch all at the same time.  (Of course that didn't work out very well last night.) 

[Obinna]

2 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

I wouldn’t have an issue seeing a lineup like this in a big game:

                Larin

Millar           David        Hoilett

          Kone     Eustaquio 

Davies Miller Cornelius Buchanan

                 Crepeau

That's certainly one possible look. 

Here is what I want to see in our next big game (in March)

-------------Larin------------

Buchanan---David-----Davies

---------Kone--Eustaquio------

Adekugbe--Miller--Cornelius--Johnston

-------------Crepeau----------------

Subs - Millar for Tajon, Richie for Johnston (or Davies), Hoilett anywhere in that "3", but ideally on the left or in the middle

At CB, get LDF in there if ready, which I think he is. 

In the middle, Ahmed and Choniere, maybe Paton for more of a holding option. 

I don't want to see anyone else at this point, at least for March. Maybe Oso or even Kaye play there way back. I don't believe in shutting doors, but we do need to freshen things up at some point. We decided this wouldn't be the window for it, but at some point it has to happen. 

[PopePouri]

Jamaica's subs were excellent in the 2nd half, basically overrunning us in the middle of the park, and then turned them into transition moments. 

I think we're playing high risk soccer and that's upsetting the balance trying to get Tajon, Richie and AD on the field. Either one has to sit. They're all good dribblers but will lose the ball a lot, and then we get punished. It was the same with Honduras and Croatia.

I think we have to treat AD like Ronaldo tactically now. Stick him on the left and let me try and create, and adjust with defensively minded players. Play 3 in the middle, with someone like Oso, Choiniere or Ahmed adjusting to the space vacated by him. I think you move David to withdrawn free RW role with Layrea, Buchanan or AJ at RB. He will probably be better in spotting the overlap. How many times did AJ do that last night for nothing. 

 

--------------------Larin
----AD-------------------David-----------
-------Choniere------Kone---------------
----------------Eustaquio-----------------
--Adekugbe---Miller----Vitoria-----Laryea

Edited November 22, 2023 by PopePouri

[PastPros]

12 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Watching Canada impode and then having to put on a brave face once the match ends and normal life resumes is the ultimate training in emotional self control. 

So true

[Treppy2]

1 hour ago, gator said:

I don't feel any better about the match today than when I left BMO last night, a total collapse in a very undisciplined performance, I suppose the only positive is we get T&T in the play in match but we have shown we can throw away matches to teams like this as well, Haiti comes to mind! On top of this hugely disappointing match in the rain at BMO I suffered through public transit scheduling hell, it took me 4 hours to travel the 70K from Exhibition GO to my place in Hamilton!

Ouch - that makes for a long night! I'm guessing you got on one of the extra trains that were added but ended their run in Burlington? Then had to wait for another train to Aldershot and beyond? Saw lots of people on the Burlington platform waiting to head west at 11 p.m.

Don't feel bad; just as we were pulling into Burlington, a guy in my car asked if this was Union Station! Eastbound trains had stopped by then but fortunately for him there was a bus leaving from Burlington to Union at 11:30.

[RS]

5 minutes ago, PopePouri said:

Jamaica's subs were excellent in the 2nd half, basically overrunning us in the middle of the park, and then turned them into transition moments. 

I think we're playing high risk soccer and that's upsetting the balance trying to get Tajon, Richie and AD on the field. Either one has to sit. They're all good dribblers but will lose the ball a lot, and then we get punished. It was the same with Honduras and Croatia and we keep trotting them out.

I think we have to treat AD like Ronaldo tactically now. Stick him on the left and let me try and create, and adjust with defensively minded players. Play 3 in the middle, with someone like Oso, Choiniere or Ahmed adjusting to the space vacated by him. I think you move David to withdrawn free RW role with Layrea, Buchanan or AJ at RB. He will probably be better in spotting the overlap. How many times did AJ do that last night for nothing. 

I know it feels that way, but Jamaica only made one sub to start the second half, then two more in stoppage time.

The team that ran Canada over in the second half was the same team that needed Andre Blake to bail them out in the first half. They just played with a lot more intensity after halftime, while Canada were casually playing as if they were up by five.

[InglewoodJack]

13 minutes ago, Lansdude said:

AD and TB aren't being taken off the field. They will still be heavily involved. The players coming out of the starting team would be Laryea/Johnston/Adekugbe. You can't tell me having AD/TB further back, putting our natural wingers further up the field and removing the usual starting fullbacks is going to mean we're throwing caution to the wind against a team like Jamaica. The alchemy might not work as well but we don't know until we try and the current philosophy has obvious drawbacks.

I just don’t know that our wingers are as good and productive as you’re giving them credit for. Like I said, I’d try it out because clearly something isn’t working, but I don’t think we’re getting much more offensive production from the guys we’d be bringing on. 

 

13 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

I wouldn’t have an issue seeing a lineup like this in a big game:

                Larin

Millar           David        Hoilett

          Kone     Eustaquio 

Davies Miller Cornelius Buchanan

                 Crepeau

I just don’t know if Hoilett moves the needle much anymore- yes I know he scored against Japan, but he did nothing last night. Maybe moving to a 3 man midfield, I guess go with a front line of David-Larin-Laryea and you start Osorio?

I dunno, I’m struggling to put together a good lineup. 

[Watchmen]

In retrospect, David and Larin being in poor form with their clubs did hurt us. Great goal in Jamaica, but they also missed a number of opportunities.

[PopePouri]

5 minutes ago, RS said:

I know it feels that way, but Jamaica only made one sub to start the second half, then two more in stoppage time.

The team that ran Canada over in the second half was the same team that needed Andre Blake to bail them out in the first half. They just played with a lot more intensity after halftime, while Canada were casually playing as if they were up by five.

I wasn't observing much but it seems they clogged up the middle and gave Eustaquio no room to play who was having a blinder of a game. 

[InglewoodJack]

Moron on twitter complaining that our team doesn’t even have that many Canadians on it anyways, so it’s fine. Guess we’re a real soccer nation now that idiots are blaming how Canadian our guys are supposed to be as the reason we lost. 

[InglewoodJack]

Silver lining- Kone’s goal is even more impressive when you look at it slow mo- he heads it in with the back of his head. Perfect timing. He had a lot of space but  9/10 times that goal ends up above the crossbar. 
https://twitter.com/watfordfc/status/1727248383373681012?s=46&t=spIaqlQfufAO3HreB1455Q

[jdheid]

1 minute ago, InglewoodJack said:

Moron on twitter complaining that our team doesn’t even have that many Canadians on it anyways, so it’s fine. Guess we’re a real soccer nation now that idiots are blaming how Canadian our guys are supposed to be as the reason we lost. 

Red card for racism to those sorts.

[GasPed]

1 minute ago, PopePouri said:

I wasn't observing much but it seems they clogged up the middle and gave Eustaquio no room to play who was having a blinder of a game. 

They were definitely pressing higher and with more energy in the 2nd half.  It's like they finally realized that's Canada's kryptonite and they finally had the desperate energy to execute it.  And, it worked.