CNL: Canada vs Jamaica - Tuesday, November 21st - 7:30pm EST / 4:30pm Pacific - Toronto

[Mattd97]

3 hours ago, PastPros said:

I watched with my daughter. (The only other game she previously watched was vs. Croatia.)

She walked away after the penalty saying: "How can you watch this? It's so frustrating!"

I doubt she will ever watch another minute. Thanks Obama.

I think he spells it obinna

[GasPed]

I wanted to add too, that even though I totally called out Eustaquio and Kone for their brutal giveaways that basically gave us the L - apart from those egregious errors, they actually played really well I thought (as per Corazon).  Both made excellent plays under pressure, distributed well and if not for the two errors, would be MOTM candidates in my books.  So close to perfect.

[costarg]

50 minutes ago, GasPed said:

I wanted to add too, that even though I totally called out Eustaquio and Kone for their brutal giveaways that basically gave us the L - apart from those egregious errors, they actually played really well I thought (as per Corazon).  Both made excellent plays under pressure, distributed well and if not for the two errors, would be MOTM candidates in my books.  So close to perfect.

I feel most of the team looked and played really well.  Yes a few errors here and there, we haven't played together in a long time and that won't change much, so gotta get used to it.  Best I've seen them play in a looooong time.  It was like before the crap of the past 18 months.  Bench let us down a little, we're giving up too much quality when we rely on our experienced players nowadays.  Just hope we don't forget that in March.  I will point everyone back to this thread if we start hearing about Vitoria this and Borjan that, and oh and but Osorio. 

It's time to stop playing "our best 11" and start playing people in their ideal position in a proper formation.  Larin and David have both been ice cold for months, they weren't horrible and I don't blame them for anything, but it was pointless to have them both out there, an extra midfielder was the way to go.  It was working while David was playing deep, but we forgot that when we started having fun scoring goals and he moved further up.  It'd be different if they were both on fire and tearing up their individual leagues, but it is not the case.

Anyone underestimating Jamaica going into these two games should go back and read some of the posts from last week.  This should not have come as a surprise, they're a good team with some really good players.  They could've easily had 3-4 more goals over the past two matches, however so could we.  We're evenly matched and their strength lines up with our weakest spot.

Reality is we're in a 3rd to 5th place battle with Panama and Jamaica, maybe even Mexico given how they're playing lately.  If Berhalter has his way and continues with the toxicity it might even be a 5-way battle between all of us.  Great for CONCACAF.  Only downside is waiting until March for more of this.  Minus the loss and heartbreak, that was serious entertainment.

[Joe MacCarthy]

Guys, sorry I haven't kept up with the reading.  Are we out of the Copa or can we still qualify.  I'm assuming we're out?

[El Diego]

Disappointing, yes, but looking at the starting XIs I wondered to myself how many Canadians would crack the Jamaica starting line up. I came up with four: Davies (at left back), Eustaquio, Johnston, and David (form dependent).

Don't have the energy for a longer post. We played well for lots of the match and could have easily ran away with it but were inefficient in transition. I actually liked Biello over two legs but clearly we cannot continue with him. My out of the box solution would have been to sub on Vitoria after the red card and play him as a striker. The best time to turnover the roster was after the WC, the second best time is now, meaning guys like Borjan, Vitoria, Osorio, and Hoilett should get replaced.

I feel compelled to comment on the handball call, since I often defend referees (and did so in the first leg). In this case, I don't think that is a handball offence. I actually think it is clear that it is not based on the wording of the law. However, I am not surprised it was called and not reviewed. I don't think it is a conspiracy or anything, but when you read the wording of the law I do not see how that was a deliberate handling or making the body unnaturally bigger.

[dyslexic nam]

8 minutes ago, Joe MacCarthy said:

Guys, sorry I haven't kept up with the reading.  Are we out of the Copa or can we still qualify.  I'm assuming we're out?

We can still qualify.  We have a one-off game against Trinidad on March 23rd in the US as a last chance entry mechanism.  Win and we are in.   

[jhoops__]

8 minutes ago, Joe MacCarthy said:

Guys, sorry I haven't kept up with the reading.  Are we out of the Copa or can we still qualify.  I'm assuming we're out?

One last chance in March vs T&T

[Joe MacCarthy]

1 minute ago, jhoops__ said:

One last chance in March vs T&T

So all is not lost, that makes this much easier to swallow.  Thanks

[InglewoodJack]

Completely irrelevant, but Johnston posted a picture of what looks like him walking his dog on a golf course in Scotland at 9AM ET this morning? Did these guys run off the pitch and grab a private jet to Europe or…?

[Joe MacCarthy]

7 minutes ago, El Diego said:

 The best time to turnover the roster was after the WC, the second best time is now, meaning guys like Borjan, Vitoria, Osorio, and Hoilett should get replaced.

Is there an echo in here   Yes. those loyal soldiers and a few more too.

In previous appearances I thought Crepeau has played well but the team seemed to be less confident in him.  I think he is a leader but few are as good as Borjan.  Crepeau needs the baton to prove he can lead (he can)

[RS]

33 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

Completely irrelevant, but Johnston posted a picture of what looks like him walking his dog on a golf course in Scotland at 9AM ET this morning? Did these guys run off the pitch and grab a private jet to Europe or…?

Probably a pic his girlfriend sent him.

[The Beaver 2.0]

57 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

We can still qualify.  We have a one-off game against Trinidad on March 23rd in the US as a last chance entry mechanism.  Win and we are in.   

Hey, that's my birthday. We're gonna win!!

[The Beaver 2.0]

FWIW, I am not yet 100% sure there isn't a place on this squad for Oso.  He had a terrible year on a terrible team, but we may see a resurrection this year, and this team needs on-field leadership real bad.  The core leadership group is getting old AF, and many of us are calling for guys like Vittoria, Hoillet, and Borjan to retire.  What does the leadership group look like going forward?  That is one of the first things a new manager needs to do: figure out leadership on the field.  Staq is a natural for captain, except maybe he's a bit too quiet?  Johnston, too. And Kammal. Maybe a guy like Larin? But most of our guys are the quieter types, and many are either too young (immature?), to be proper on-field leaders. I think we saw some of that last night. (The manager takes some of the blame for lack of leadership, too.)

What should the core leadership group look like going forward IF guys like Vittoria, Hoillet, Borjan, and Oso hang up their boots?

[El Diego]

1 minute ago, The Beaver 2.0 said:

FWIW, I am not yet 100% sure there isn't a place on this squad for Oso.  He had a terrible year on a terrible team, but we may see a resurrection this year, and this team needs on-field leadership real bad.  The core leadership group is getting old AF, and many of us are calling for guys like Vittoria, Hoillet, and Borjan to retire.  What does the leadership group look like going forward?  That is one of the first things a new manager needs to do: figure out leadership on the field.  Staq is a natural for captain, except maybe he's a bit too quiet?  Johnston, too. And Kammal. Maybe a guy like Larin? But most of our guys are the quieter types, and many are either too young (immature?), to be proper on-field leaders. I think we saw some of that last night. (The manager takes some of the blame for lack of leadership, too.)

What should the core leadership group look like going forward IF guys like Vittoria, Hoillet, Borjan, and Oso hang up their boots?

Sometimes these things need to reveal themselves. If we had moved on immediately after the WC we would have way more information by this point.

[Watchmen]

Well, on the plus side to all of this, OneSoccer seems to finally be getting a lot of highlights on TSN and Sportsnet.

[Ivan]

1 hour ago, The Beaver 2.0 said:

Hey, that's my birthday. We're gonna win!!

Well, yesterday was mine. Didn't work out that way. 😄

[dyslexic nam]

Yeah I was here as part of my birthday present as well.  I wouldn’t bank on that theory.  

[costarg]

1 hour ago, The Beaver 2.0 said:

FWIW, I am not yet 100% sure there isn't a place on this squad for Oso.  He had a terrible year on a terrible team, but we may see a resurrection this year, and this team needs on-field leadership real bad.  The core leadership group is getting old AF, and many of us are calling for guys like Vittoria, Hoillet, and Borjan to retire.  What does the leadership group look like going forward?  That is one of the first things a new manager needs to do: figure out leadership on the field.  Staq is a natural for captain, except maybe he's a bit too quiet?  Johnston, too. And Kammal. Maybe a guy like Larin? But most of our guys are the quieter types, and many are either too young (immature?), to be proper on-field leaders. I think we saw some of that last night. (The manager takes some of the blame for lack of leadership, too.)

What should the core leadership group look like going forward IF guys like Vittoria, Hoillet, Borjan, and Oso hang up their boots?

I'll take a guy that leads with his actions as opposed to the loudest in the locker room.  Literally tonnes of quiet guys have captained and lead better teams than this on the field and in the locker room.  We don't need guys that aren't at their absolute best to lead this team.  All the best words in the world won't stop what happened last night. 

Our experienced "leaders" were a large part of the problem last night.  Borjan juggling and strangling a guy, Osorio being just as transparent as he's been the past 18 months, Hoilett had no answer, Vitoria showed he has nothing left on Saturday.  These guys can't lead us where we wanna go, young energy and passion is more useful at the moment. 

All 11 guys last night and more on the bench have already played in the roughest of environments, EU as well as CONCACAF.  There is nothing left for our old guys to teach them, they've already surpassed them.

[GasPed]

8 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

Yeah I was here as part of my birthday present as well.  I wouldn’t bank on that theory.  

My wife's 50th too.  According to her though, that's a birthday to mourn, not celebrate - so at least we were both in the same mood last night...

[Rocket Robin]

All audio from the Nov 21/2023 post game press conference of the CONCACAF QFinal of Canada vs Jamaica played in Toronto.

Coaches Heimir Hallgrimsson, Mauro Biello and players Mark Anthony Kaye, Stephen Eustaquio, and Jonathan David http://www.rocketrobinsoccerintoronto.com/reports23/23cana06.htm

[Kadenge]

If our strikers were in form like they were during WCQ, we probably would have put the game out of reach in the first half.  Momentum changed quickly in the 2nd half but Biello waited too long (vs 60'/55' when we  were still up 1-0 ) to make changes with players/tactics and when he did he got the subs wrong. Having said that, for the most part we played well in the first half.

[costarg]

22 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

If our strikers were in form like they were during WCQ, we probably would have put the game out of reach in the first half.  Momentum changed quickly in the 2nd half but Biello waited too long (vs 60'/55' when we  were still up 1-0 ) to make changes with players/tactics and when he did he got the subs wrong. Having said that, for the most part we played well in the first half.

Totally agree on Biello's gaf, however Bailey also could have put us away if he was at his average, never mind his best.  He was really really bad.

[Aird25]

I'm curious why Cornelius played on his weak side when we didn't even call players like MacNaughton, Waterman, Zator etc? Didn't he struggle to break in at MLS level

[dyslexic nam]

3 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

I'm curious why Cornelius played on his weak side when we didn't even call players like MacNaughton, Waterman, Zator etc? Didn't he struggle to break in at MLS level

He struggled a few years ago but has been playing well in Europe (Greece then Switzerland) for 2 years now.  I would think a starting CB for Malmo could play comfortably in MLS.  He is ahead of those guys in the pool IMO. 

[BearcatSA]

4 hours ago, Kadenge said:

Momentum changed quickly in the 2nd half but Biello waited too long (vs 60'/55' when we  were still up 1-0 ) to make changes with players/tactics and when he did he got the subs wrong. Having said that, for the most part we played well in the first half.

After re-watching that second half, the momentum change occurred in large part because Damion Lowe was moved into a more advanced destroyer midfield role from CB, replacing Latibeaudiere, with the veteran Hector brought into CB.  Boy, did he disrupt things:  his excellent reading of the Eustaquio pass to Davies led to the interception and then rapid counterattacking sequence in the 47th minute which ended with an unmarked Bailey crashing his shot off the bar.  Later, Lowe took a hard foul on Eustaquio for which he was booked but also stopped Laryea's run as well as assisting of course closing down and stripping Eustaquio for the first Nicholson goal.  He was my MOTM.  Great coaching move by the Jamaican coaching staff.

And then, after conceding, we decided to go all Clubber Lang on them, with too many guys losing their positional awareness while pressing deep on the attack, and then they Rocky Balboa counterpunched us with a 3 on 2 fast break off the turnover to take the lead.  Brutal!

Edited November 23, 2023 by BearcatSA