CNL: Canada vs Jamaica - Tuesday, November 21st - 7:30pm EST / 4:30pm Pacific - Toronto

[costarg]

53 minutes ago, jhoops__ said:

Seriously though, every Bayern manager has seen AD as a LB and yes they have elite wingers but this guy being the best LB in the world plays out of position for our middling club.   It’s never made any sense.

Great point.  

The other option that I don't think I've ever seen us deploy is AD and TB on the same side, hell they could even alternate and overlap nonstop.  Good luck defending against that.

[costarg]

27 minutes ago, PopePouri said:

--------------------Larin
----AD-------------------David-----------
-------Choniere------Kone---------------
----------------Eustaquio-----------------
--Adekugbe---Miller----Vitoria-----Laryea

Please tell me Vitoria is a typo.

[PopePouri]

12 minutes ago, costarg said:

Great point.  

The other option that I don't think I've ever seen us deploy is AD and TB on the same side, hell they could even alternate and overlap nonstop.  Good luck defending against that.

None of them will see each other.

[clamlinguine]

35 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

I just don’t know that our wingers are as good and productive as you’re giving them credit for. Like I said, I’d try it out because clearly something isn’t working, but I don’t think we’re getting much more offensive production from the guys we’d be bringing on. 

 

I just don’t know if Hoilett moves the needle much anymore- yes I know he scored against Japan, but he did nothing last night. Maybe moving to a 3 man midfield, I guess go with a front line of David-Larin-Laryea and you start Osorio?

I dunno, I’m struggling to put together a good lineup. 

I always appreciate Hoilett and feel he has been underrated, but his time is done. Borjan is also obviously done luckily Crepeau looks great to me. I've never thought the big guys in the back were good enough.

Edited November 22, 2023 by clamlinguine

[anthony7]

15 hours ago, prairiecanuck said:

Rowe for Eustaquio when they are down to 10 men was mind blowingly stupid.

Buddy, he literally had Ali Ahmed chilling in the cut for this exact situation. Guy got 0 minutes total this window. Make that make sense.

[gator]

41 minutes ago, Treppy2 said:

Ouch - that makes for a long night! I'm guessing you got on one of the extra trains that were added but ended their run in Burlington? Then had to wait for another train to Aldershot and beyond? Saw lots of people on the Burlington platform waiting to head west at 11 p.m.

Don't feel bad; just as we were pulling into Burlington, a guy in my car asked if this was Union Station! Eastbound trains had stopped by then but fortunately for him there was a bus leaving from Burlington to Union at 11:30.

I did get the extra WB train to Burlington GO, the local Burlington bus pulled out just as I was getting out the door, I waited almost an hour for the next one to show up and he proceeded to shut the engine off and wait another 20 minutes until his trip downtown, as we arrived to John St. terminal my Hamilton bus pulled out for another 70 minute wait until the next one, it gets worse: I thought I would kill the time and drown my sorrows with a nice pint at the local British pub, they were out of Guinness!☹️

[Obinna]

2 minutes ago, anthony7 said:

Buddy, he literally had Ali Ahmed chilling in the cut for this exact situation. Guy got 0 minutes total this window. Make that make sense.

You've said a lot of shocking things, but I am with you here.

I get why LDF didn't get tossed on considering the way the game played out, but Ahmed should probably have played a role last night. Kaye got his minutes in Jamaica and did a decent job, but running it back a second time when Ahmed was fresh was the wrong call in my opinon. If he wanted a veteran presence to see it out put on Kaye with Ahmed, or Oso with Ahmed, but Biello put both vets on and no Ahmed, which was disappointing. 

[Treppy2]

2 minutes ago, gator said:

I did get the extra WB train to Burlington GO, the local Burlington bus pulled out just as I was getting out the door, I waited almost an hour for the next one to show up and he proceeded to shut the engine off and wait another 20 minutes until his trip downtown, as we arrived to John St. terminal my Hamilton bus pulled out for another 70 minute wait until the next one, it gets worse: I thought I would kill the time and drown my sorrows with a nice pint at the local British pub, they were out of Guinness!☹️

Wow, what a rough night from start to finish!!! My sympathies!

[Joe MacCarthy]

I don't have the heart to read all the posts since last night so forgive me if this has been said.

As the second half began my only thoughts were, keep going the way we're going and we'll get a chance to cap the kid near the end of the game.

But immediately my thoughts went to how sluggish and unmotivated they looked and had me harkening back to wishing they had heard a Herdman motivational speech.  I guess they didn't.

Then the subs came on and that sank me further.

But I am going to say this and not intend to scapegoat anybody because all eleven players are ultimately responsible, you can't blame one guy for an own goal at the end of the game because another guy may have hit the post at the beginning of the game.

But...we have to move on from the old guard no matter how still useful they are.  We have to swallow the medicine and get the new guys in there before 2026.  Frankly, they should have had their swan song at the WC but they must go now.  Again, not blaming them but we know they will likely decline, not improve, that is what happens when we get older.

When the second half began I was hoping Millar would come on just to give them a spark.  Maybe people will disagree, but I think some of the biggest players should be given some time off from NT duty.  Our top guys need competition for spots and nobody's name should be carved in stone.

We have to start developing the younger guys for the NT.  We are not as good as many of us fans think we are.  We have players playing at famous clubs: Celtic, Brugge, Malmo, PNE etc but few in the top four leagues.  Herdman explained his formula for needing the majority of your players in those leagues.

We needed to swallow the bad medicine almost a year ago, it's not too late but we're getting close.

And a note to Phonsie...PASS THE F'N PUCK!

 

[Hawkguy]

2 hours ago, AvroArrow said:

Jamaican 1st goal - Eustaquio gets caught with a good tackle and we immediately get caught in transition.  I don't blame the defense or Borjan because they had so little time to react.  You can't lose the ball running towards your own 18 yard box.

Jamaican 2nd goal - Kone went down easy and we inexplicably got caught in transition in a game that we only had to tie.  I don't know what the team's mentality was at that point, but getting caught 3v2 should not have happened at that point in the game.  I don't know why we had so many players pushing forward.

Jamaican 3rd goal - PK call was cruel due to the situation but not unfair.  Eustaquio's arm was slightly extended and from the replay I saw his hand/arm snapped back after being struck by the ball.  If the situation was reversed, we'd be yelling for a pk.

Referee - This guy was pretty much the CONCACAF ref we have been asking for.  Let the players play (which makes Kone's decision to go down even tougher to take, because the ref had been waving that stuff off all game) and he didn't put up with the Jamaican shennigans at the end.  I've never seen a CONCACAF ref (1) yellow card a player for time wasting during an injury (2) let Bailley lie down on the field for an extended period of time because he knew he was time wasting and (3) added an extensive amount of injury time.  We did not lose because of the ref.

1 and 2 - no mentions of Tajon who put his teammates in awful positions. He was putrid yesterday UNTIL we were scored against twice. Then he literally flipped a switch on, only to be subbed 2 minutes later when he was finally alive. 

3 - No, no we wouldn't have. You can say that all you want, but that's a call that even the Premier League would get right and their VAR is in shambles. Of course you saw his arm move when the ball hit it, it's a force coming into contact with him. Point is his arm was in a fairly natural position, he had little time to react, and he still reacted trying to get out of the way. In no way should that be called unless we are calling EVERY ball off an arm as a handball... and they don't. The fact that VAR looked at it for nearly 3 minutes and then didn't have the ref at least look is a bigger problem. If it's taking you three minutes, with a million angles, to decide whether the ref might have made an error... then the ref should look at it. The fact that the ref wasn't given the chance to look at it is what is criminal. 

The ref was great. I have zero complaints about him. Probably one of the best refs I've ever seen, to be honest. 

We lost because the coaching was absolute dog shit. We came out in the 2nd half protecting the lead with zero press, zero intensity... but we made no changes the formation, so when we got the ball, we were still in an attacking formation/tactic. I won't be spending money to attend games live if Biello is still coach going forward, I'll catch them on TV.

[themodelcitizen]

2 minutes ago, Joe MacCarthy said:

I don't have the heart to read all the posts since last night so forgive me if this has been said.

As the second half began my only thoughts were, keep going the way we're going and we'll get a chance to cap the kid near the end of the game.

But immediately my thoughts went to how sluggish and unmotivated they looked and had me harkening back to wishing they had heard a Herdman motivational speech.  I guess they didn't.

Then the subs came on and that sank me further.

But I am going to say this and not intend to scapegoat anybody because all eleven players are ultimately responsible, you can't blame one guy for an own goal at the end of the game because another guy may have hit the post at the beginning of the game.

But...we have to move on from the old guard no matter how still useful they are.  We have to swallow the medicine and get the new guys in there before 2026.  Frankly, they should have had their swan song at the WC but they must go now.  Again, not blaming them but we know they will likely decline, not improve, that is what happens when we get older.

When the second half began I was hoping Millar would come on just to give them a spark.  Maybe people will disagree, but I think some of the biggest players should be given some time off from NT duty.  Our top guys need competition for spots and nobody's name should be carved in stone.

We have to start developing the younger guys for the NT.  We are not as good as many of us fans think we are.  We have players playing at famous clubs: Celtic, Brugge, Malmo, PNE etc but few in the top four leagues.  Herdman explained his formula for needing the majority of your players in those leagues.

We needed to swallow the bad medicine almost a year ago, it's not too late but we're getting close.

And a note to Phonsie...PASS THE F'N PUCK!

 

Mostly agree except the Phonzie slander. He's entitled to do what he wants with the ball by now and it showed with Koné's goal. He's young enough he'll make mistakes but I still trust his judgment more than just about anyone else on the pitch (or this forum for that matter)

[Obinna]

Just now, Joe MacCarthy said:

 

And a note to Phonsie...PASS THE F'N PUCK!

 

Can't help but feel like part of the reason Phonzie doesn't pass is because he doesn't play with his head up. Driving with the ball is his best asset and he's a beast at it, but far too often he makes the wrong decision because he doesn't see it, not because he wants to hog the ball. That's my feeling on it anyway. 

It's too bad because if he could dish it off more consistently and make the right play in the final 3rd, this team would be so much better. 

[Joe MacCarthy]

1 minute ago, Hawkguy said:

The ref was great. I have zero complaints about him. Probably one of the best refs I've ever seen, to be honest.

Totally agree, he let the boys play and didn't put up with too much Concacafing

[Joe MacCarthy]

2 minutes ago, Obinna said:

It's too bad because if he could dish it off more consistently and make the right play in the final 3rd, this team would be so much better. 

Amen.  I don't think I need to remind anybody that we played 50% of our WCQ games without him.

Not trying to slander the young fella at all because once he realizes what Obinna posted, we'll be golden (or getting closer to that)

[BearcatSA]

1 hour ago, dyslexic nam said:

We are still trying to get our best 11 players on the pitch and trying to find a formation that allows for it...

And, eventually, it stops working because your team's shortcomings get exposed and apparently you can't ruffle feathers.

[Lansdude]

He doesn't trust his teammates to put the ball back on his feet in a give-and-go than he does in his own ability to beat two, sometimes three guys. You can see why, the players he has to exchange with on the inside are inferior to his Bayern teammates and the failure rate is going to be higher. But he needs to realize the failure rate for his dribbling through two men is worse. He should accept that he needs to trust his teammates more even though they're going to lose the ball more than he's used to.

[Ivan]

13 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Can't help but feel like part of the reason Phonzie doesn't pass is because he doesn't play with his head up. Driving with the ball is his best asset and he's a beast at it, but far too often he makes the wrong decision because he doesn't see it, not because he wants to hog the ball. That's my feeling on it anyway. 

It's too bad because if he could dish it off more consistently and make the right play in the final 3rd, this team would be so much better. 

I actually thought it was Davies' best game for us in a long while, while were were winning and controlling the game.  Once we were tied, then got down, the hero ball started.  He seems to think its all on him to rescue us. 

[jhoops__]

1 minute ago, Ivan said:

I actually thought it was Davies' best game for us in a long while, while were were winning and controlling the game.  Once we were tied, then got down, the hero ball started.  He seems to think its all on him to rescue us. 

A good coach would have pushed him back to lb and told him to defend when up 1 or tied.

[Obinna]

1 minute ago, Lansdude said:

He doesn't trust his teammates to put the ball back on his feet in a give-and-go than he does in his own ability to beat two, sometimes three guys. You can see why, the players he has to exchange with on the inside are inferior to his Bayern teammates and the failure rate is going to be higher. But he needs to realize the failure rate for his dribbling through two men is worse. He should accept that he needs to trust his teammates more even though they're going to lose the ball more than he's used to.

I'm sure that is part of it. 

But there are other times when he is the one who misplays a simple pass because his own timing of when to release is off. I cannot recall if it was in Jamaica or Japan, but there is one play that stands out very clearly...think it was a 3 on two with him carrying the ball up the middle of the field uncontested and entering into the final 3rd. He played the ball out wide, btu a fraction too late and the play fizzled out. It's just not his game at the moment to consistenly make the right pass in the final 3rd, which is a real shame. I hope he can develop that.  

[Obinna]

4 minutes ago, Ivan said:

I actually thought it was Davies' best game for us in a long while, while were were winning and controlling the game.  Once we were tied, then got down, the hero ball started.  He seems to think its all on him to rescue us. 

This is true.

What I saw though was everyone deferring to Davies everytime and depending on him to create something. Too often he was isolated on the left with little room to create anything and low and behold nothing was created. Maybe if he was on the opposite side he could cut inside for a shot or a combination with his teammates. 

Does he have hero ball syndrome at times? For sure. Last night though felt to me as if everyone else was saying here you go Davies save us with some magic, and I don't think he was in the right position to do that. At the same time, Biello took off Buchanan and Eustaquio and Larin so we no longer had the weapons. It was just David and Davies and a bunch of shuttlers out there.

Millar came in but it's the same old story with him, too little too late. If you are going to bring on Millar do it earlier. He should have came on for Buchanan as his profile is most similar. It seems obvious to me. 

[Lansdude]

13 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I'm sure that is part of it. 

But there are other times when he is the one who misplays a simple pass because his own timing of when to release is off. I cannot recall if it was in Jamaica or Japan, but there is one play that stands out very clearly...think it was a 3 on two with him carrying the ball up the middle of the field uncontested and entering into the final 3rd. He played the ball out wide, btu a fraction too late and the play fizzled out. It's just not his game at the moment to consistenly make the right pass in the final 3rd, which is a real shame. I hope he can develop that.  

I think that's an additional issue, unless you're implying that part of the reason he doesn't pass the ball so much is because he doesn't trust his own short passing in certain situations. I don't think that's the case, and don't think you mean to imply that. If you're saying that his awareness around him isn't so good because he's looking down, I think that's begging the question. He's putting himself in more tunnel vision situations than he does at club level.

If he can't consistently hit teammates when he's not homing in on the daylight behind the defender trying to stand him up, that seems to be more of a problem of developing the right familiarity with certain players, and overall, less familiarity with the freer role he plays on the national team.

The greater part of it though is that he, and the team around, haven't figured out what the optimal risk-taking, pass-making, - if i get open here will you pass it to me? or should i go here? - pattern should be. This is something that happens at every level in any sport or game where there's a talent mismatch between teammates. The move dies on the less talented person's feet, the more talented person tries to do too much, the tempo, anticipation, and difficulty level of the move are out of synch, etc. IMO we have too much Davies which is partly owing to the position, the larger role, and the ego that comes with that, the lack of gel between the players, and the inability of the coach to finesse the tactics and psychology to treat these things.

[Treppy2]

This must be the longest "HOT!" thread in forum history!

[Corazon]

I debated not doing this at all after that loss but I've settled down.  From the southside seats you can see a lot but can sometimes miss action happening in the north end and how close some chances are so forgive me if I missed a few points.  For instance, apparently David had a good chance late but it didn't look like it from my angle on the southside.

First off, I thought the referee was actually quite good by CONCACAF standards.  Shocking that VAR took so long to review the penalty call but never called the referee to review.  If it was clearly a handball, there is no need for VAR to watch it for 5 minutes.  If it's taking 5 minutes to review, then it's probably best to call in the head referee to review.  Soft penalty.

Biello - Throughout these last two games, I was pleasantly pleased with how we looked for parts of it but the in game tactics were poor.  I enjoy that we've moved to a back 4 but we definitely need to ensure we have bodies in the middle of the park.  I'm tired of putting the best players on the field for the sake of it, especially if we aren't balance which we aren't.  This happens all the time in international football.  There are top players at their positions that unfortunately have to sit internationally behind other world class players.  I understand some positions are easier to plug players but we do it too much.  Even looking at individual performances, most weren't bad last night aside from a couple bad giveaways but we're still losing 3-2 at home to a lesser quality team.  An adjustment should have been made to our formation while we had the lead.  And the substitutions were atrocious.  We can talk about the veterans that came in early but the Eustaquio substitution while up a man late was terrible.  I proceeded to watch the next 10 minutes of extra time pass the ball side to side with little creativity.  Biello clearly was going into these games with a mindset of living or dying by his veterans.  For this reason alone, I would like to see someone from outside the organization come in fresh.  However, Biello had us looking terrible against Japan.  We didn't make the semis of the Nations League and we suffered our first official loss at BMO.  Not a great start for Biello.  He doesn't get a lot of tools from the CSA but I just don't see how he can be made full time coach if we want to go to the next level.

Borjan - People going at him for the first goal are clueless.  I was behind the net and it was a rocket of a shot that is only saved if it hits Borjan's body.  However, it reflects poorly his juggling stunt and then short pass that eventually lead to the pass that put Eustaquio in trouble on that goal.  Hard to blame him on the 2nd as well,  but it's one that as a goalie you wish you have back because you know its savable.  And these were the types of saves he was making in qualifying and saves you would want your starting keeper to be making.  The penalty is what it is.  I love his leadership and his speech after the game but I'm not sure what happens from here.  I do think we're in for a bit of surprise when we do move on from him.  Crepeau has far worse distribution and although his handling of crosses has improved it's still not great.  I know it's also not the end all be all, but Crepeau's height brings some fear to me.  For awhile I thought St Clair was the next best option but I think he's become very inconsistent.  I honestly think Sirois might be out next main keeper.  Hopefully he can build off this season.

Cornelius - I thought he was actually pretty good.  He doesn't have the pace of Jamaican attackers but still much better than Vitoria.  Giving up 3 goals at home when you've been trusted as the new CB, never looks good but I don't think the goals fall on him and despite the scoreline, he's still starting for me going forward until someone else comes along or steps up.

Miller - I too thought he was decent.  Like Cornelius, he was left out to dry on two of the goals.  The fact he lacks speed and wasn't exposed at all against a fast Jamaican squad says a lot about him positionally and intelligently.  I'm still keeping Kamal there going forward as well.

Johnston - He didn't stand out but he also didn't look bad either.  I think his ideal role is right back in a back 4.  He can be more defensive as it seems we want to put all our best players (attackers) on the field at once.  We got exposed bad on the Kone giveaway.

Laryea - Ditto to Alistair above.  Had more going forward than Johnston.  Every time he got in the box late, I was hoping for some Laryea trickery.

Eustaquio - I thought he had an exceptional game aside from that giveaway which also was an incredible tackle by the Jamaican.  He was given that ball in a tough situation but as a midfielder, your eyes need to be on a swivel and that ball needed to go back where it came from or cleared out wide and up the field.

Kone - I too thought he was overall good.  It was a very soft play to go down.  He was pulled but obviously if he stands on his feet there, the goal never happens.  His mistakes are glaring when they happen but he still possess such a unique profile for us.  Glad he was able to get a goal, very well taken.  He's young, so hopefully the consistency improves.

Davies - I thought he had a great first half.  I thought he had a terrible 2nd half.  Way too much hero ball in the 2nd half.  He's clearly our best player and if he demands to play as an attacker, someone needs to have the balls to tell him less dribbling, more passing.  That goes along with his set pieces.  I'd take a new coach just to humble Davies on set pieces and dribbling.  With that being said, he is still a difference maker and earned his goal and had an exceptional assist to Kone.

Tajon - Similar to Davies.  Exceptional at times, but then doing way too much for periods of play.  Had some excellent crosses and passes but also had some terrible giveaways and touches.

Larin - Unlucky to not be on the scoresheet but also should do better.  The first chance he had was an exceptional save.  I was just walking in and right behind the goal when it happened (after waiting for 30-45 minutes to get into the stadium).  Even better save in person.  However, Larin should be doing better on the chance that David gave to him only a few minutes later.  Another great save but not a lot of power and right at Blake.

David - Linked up well again at times and helped out in the middle as well.  Need him to be more selfish and clinical in front of goal.

Hoilett - Poor by his standards.  Not writing him off yet in large part to his unique skillset in our program but a night to forget for him.  He always seems to play up against Jamaica too.  If my memory is correct, Herdman had always seemed to start him against Jamaica (in Toronto).

Osorio - Did nothing to help his case unfortunately.  I'm still willing to see him out this season.  He too possesses a unique skillset.  He's not starting calibre currently and he's not first guy off the bench calibre either.  I'll take him on the squad because I think he's good enough but I'd rather have seen Ahmed last night.

Kaye - Again, nothing poor from him but like the two others above, did little to comfort people who've been doubting their squad inclusions.

Millar - Unfortunately, missed a chance late but hard to tell how close it was from the southside.  Personally I thought he's done enough lately that he should have been put in earlier.

Russell-Rowe - Nothing against him or the sub to come in late but I'm still flabbergasted at pulling Eustaquio to put him in.  Really wasn't able to get involved at all.

 

Edited November 22, 2023 by Corazon

[VinceA]

Traveling to NY for Thanksgiving and saw Damion Lowe at the Airport and Carm Moscato is on my flight.

[BearcatSA]

4 minutes ago, VinceA said:

Traveling to NY for Thanksgiving and saw Damion Lowe at the Airport and Carm Moscato is on my flight.

He had a great match.  It was his tackle on Eustaquio that got them on the comeback trail.