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WCQ: Canada vs Suriname - Tuesday, June 8th, 9:05pm Eastern/6:05pm Pacific - SeatGeek Stadium, Chicago


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Posted (edited)

In a 3-5-2 I think we could have all 3 of David, Larin and Cav on the field at once.

With Bayern potentially moving to Wing backs, ZBG/Laryea both with experience as wingbacks, could this be our strongest formation going forward? I know Herdman generally deploys a 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 but I do like the looks of this formation. 

(Larin and David very interchangeable in this formation)

   

061286B0-268E-4EDA-8136-66F6024A3993.jpeg

Edited by N1ckbr0wn
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I've been clamouring for us to play a 3-5-2 as our player pool supports this system. Especially the wingbacks. 
 

@N1ckbr0wn my only change to your lineup would be Miller for Kennedy. I rate MIller over Kennedy just for his experience that he has the edge on. I don't agree with putting Kennedy to start in what would be his first/second appearance in a must win-do-or-die situation. 

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5 minutes ago, N1ckbr0wn said:

In a 3-5-2 I think we could have all 3 of David, Larin and Cav on the field at once.

With Bayern potentially moving to Wing backs, ZBG/Laryea both with experience as wingbacks, could this be our strongest formation going forward? I know Herdman generally deploys a 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 but I do like the looks of this formation. 

(Larin and David very interchangeable in this formation)

   

061286B0-268E-4EDA-8136-66F6024A3993.jpeg

That is a guns-blazing attacking lineup but I don’t see us switching to 3 CBs for a game that not conceding is job 1. It may mean someone else misses out somewhere in the lineup but I think it will be 4 across the back.  Having said that, if Laryea and Davies are told to stay back and support the defence, they could rely on their pace to jump in and join the attack in specific instances.

Herdman may get creative and try to something bold.  It would get him the plaudits I suspect he likes if successful- I am just a bit leery of the risks involved if it doesn’t work out. 

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, N1ckbr0wn said:

In a 3-5-2 I think we could have all 3 of David, Larin and Cav on the field...

That's certainly an interesting lineup and well explained. I'm not fully convinced by its merits but I'd be curious to see how it works in a friendly match or maybe the Gold Cup but I'd find it risky to try something so different in such a crucial match.

This game is scary because there's no home-&-away and the margin for error is almost non-existent.

Edit: Exactly what @dyslexic nam said. Job number 1 is to not concede.

Edited by Olympique_de_Marseille
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15 minutes ago, N1ckbr0wn said:

In a 3-5-2 I think we could have all 3 of David, Larin and Cav on the field at once.

With Bayern potentially moving to Wing backs, ZBG/Laryea both with experience as wingbacks, could this be our strongest formation going forward? I know Herdman generally deploys a 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 but I do like the looks of this formation. 

(Larin and David very interchangeable in this formation)

   

061286B0-268E-4EDA-8136-66F6024A3993.jpeg

I really dig this line up. We were discussing in another thread how a Larin-David-Cavallini frontline may not work, but if you drop David back to connect things I see it clicking. 

The other thing is about Kennedy. Although part of me would prefer Miller or Cornelius, there's enough experience around Scott that I think I would feel comfortable, even in a do-or-die game against Suriname. Alternatively, you could bring him off the bench into that role if the game is going well.

Also, he'll almost certainly start against Aruba prior to this. I know that'll basically be a training exercise, but it will at least help him build up some familiarity. 

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Going Forward

image.png.86774622a238d09ebd84c226769e8ac3.png

Defending:

image.png.59d583a0832d223be6fb5aa1ffbdaa99.png

I think having Davies, and Laryea who already go up and down the outside at their clubs is the bonus.
Throwing in another CB should lay away fears of the conceding. 

The defence can't help what Borjan may do.

 

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This formation is ideal for both Laryea & Davies in our squad.  Would have to see how it works out with everyone else.  It looks good on paper and given this is a very common formation in modern football, it very well could be the way we move to.  I would be open to moving to this as long as its transitioned appropriately.

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2 hours ago, Obinna said:

I think you've nailed the keeper and the backline. The forward line is realistic, even though I suspect Larin finds a way in there.

The thing that stands out for me is Hoilett in the middle of the park. In a way I like it, because he has the qualities to play more central and he already takes up those positions anyways. As he continues to lose his pace I can see him evolving to be more of a CAM or second striker than a winger.

That said, I think we need more of a two-way player there for the national team. If you are suggesting we play Hoilett at the tip of a midfield triangle, then I am more interested, but then again we have Osorio, Arfield and even Kaye who can play that role. We could even put Atiba there and bring Piette on for the DM role.

We still have plenty of midfield options and Hoilett hasn't been playing and won't be playing leading up to this game, so it's hard for me to even see him starting in a winger/wide forward role, let alone a RCM role.

That is why my starting 11 was set up in a 4-3-3 formation but even if Hoilett doesn't work, my next logical choice would have been Osorio or Millar

 

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1 hour ago, Shway said:

Going Forward

image.png.86774622a238d09ebd84c226769e8ac3.png

Defending:

image.png.59d583a0832d223be6fb5aa1ffbdaa99.png

I think having Davies, and Laryea who already go up and down the outside at their clubs is the bonus.
Throwing in another CB should lay away fears of the conceding. 

The defence can't help what Borjan may do.

 

I actually like these formations with this lineup and against Suriname...with this lineup especially it is a W in the bag

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1 hour ago, N1ckbr0wn said:

In a 3-5-2 I think we could have all 3 of David, Larin and Cav on the field at once.

With Bayern potentially moving to Wing backs, ZBG/Laryea both with experience as wingbacks, could this be our strongest formation going forward? I know Herdman generally deploys a 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 but I do like the looks of this formation. 

(Larin and David very interchangeable in this formation)

   

061286B0-268E-4EDA-8136-66F6024A3993.jpeg

Also 👍

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6 minutes ago, BrennanFan said:

Our CB pool is not deep enough for 3 at the back.  The above formations, though interesting, would weaken us overall.  

I hope we see Cavallini up top. He will create space for David and Larin.  

 

lineup.png

Not disagreeing with the lineup but I think it is crazy that we could field a first-choice starting 11 without Oso, Arfield, Hoilett, and Piette. 

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8 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

Not disagreeing with the lineup but I think it is crazy that we could field a first-choice starting 11 without Oso, Arfield, Hoilett, and Piette. 

Not crazy, just literally a sign of the times.

What’s crazy to me is that guys keep putting Kennedy in to start, considering he has zero caps for Canada at any level.

Makes me wonder why 2. Bundesliga is essentially being rated higher than MLS based on that thinking. 

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18 minutes ago, Shway said:

Not crazy, just literally a sign of the times.

What’s crazy to me is that guys keep putting Kennedy in to start, considering he has zero caps for Canada at any level.

Makes me wonder why 2. Bundesliga is essentially being rated higher than MLS based on that thinking. 

Its not like Miller has bags of international experience.  Theres not much between them.  From what Ive seen with their clubs, Kennedy is the more polished player, and more importantly, he has the highest ceiling of all our young CBs.  Hopefully he proves it in training, but I dont think we lose much at all should Miller play. Along with Cornelius, these are comparable players at this stage.  

Herdman will probably play Henry with Vitoria.  Id love to see James get his shot, but it doesnt seem likely.    

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, BrennanFan said:

Its not like Miller has bags of international experience.  Theres not much between them.  From what Ive seen with their clubs, Kennedy is the more polished player, and more importantly, he has the highest ceiling of all our young CBs.  Hopefully he proves it in training, but I dont think we lose much at all should Miller play. Along with Cornelius, these are comparable players at this stage.  

Herdman will probably play Henry with Vitoria.  Id love to see James get his shot, but it doesnt seem likely.    

Yea I disagree on the ceiling bit. It probably looks like that because Kennedy has a tangible ceiling (which is the Bundesliga). MLS is the ceiling for the guys who play there. I also don’t know how you can say he’s more important for his club when he hasn’t played 3 consecutive 90 min games.

I think you rate 2.Bundesliga higher than I do...and clearly rate it over MLS. 

For perspective, MLS has far more better attackers than 2B that they go up against not only in training but in games too. The league overall is better than 2B imo.

Ive watched some of Kennedy’s games with Jahn, I’ve been impressed, but it’s relative to the level in terms of my comparisons.

For instance, Cornelius was playing in the Serbian 1st division, Scott was in Austrian 2nd Division. They both made moves up...but Imo one made a bigger step up. 

They all have similar assets, but Miller gets the leg up on the three because 1. he hasn’t put a foot wrong, 2. he’s familiar with the team, Vitoria and JHs system and 3. He consistently goes up against Concacaf opposition. 

Edited by Shway
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13 minutes ago, Shway said:

Yea I disagree on the ceiling bit. It probably looks like that because Kennedy has a tangible ceiling (which is the Bundesliga). MLS is the ceiling for the guys who play there. I also don’t know how you can say he’s more important for his club when he hasn’t played 3 consecutive 90 min games.

I think you rate 2.Bundesliga higher than I do...and clearly rate it over MLS. 

For perspective, MLS has far more better attackers than 2B that they go up against not only in training but in games too. The league overall is better than 2B imo.

Ive watched some of Kennedy’s games with Jahn, I’ve been impressed, but it’s relative to the level in terms of my comparisons.

For instance, Cornelius was playing in the Serbian 1st division, Scott was in Austrian 2nd Division. They both made moves up...but Imo one made a bigger step up. 

They all have similar assets, but Miller gets the leg up on the three because 1. he hasn’t put a foot wrong, 2. he’s familiar with the team, Vitoria and JHs system and 3. He consistently goes up against Concacaf opposition. 

I think they're similar levels. I guess on one hand, you have designated players which means the top end talent is probably higher. In MLS though, do we have any teams as complete as Bochum or Kiel? There's probably a wider gap between the top and bottom, and you probably won't be seeing any MLS teams fishing out of the Austrian second tier... but is it really that different from a USL signing like Pasher? I dunno. 

Anyways, Miller was good in March, but I think Kennedy's potential goes beyond 2 bundesliga sounding more quantifiable or whatever. Here's a serious question: How many 6'4 CB's in the world could outrun him? It's a short list, and that's a really unique quality to have. I think that on it's own gives you a higher ceiling than our other CB's. You could be completely average defensively, and that would still get you pretty far. But Kennedy is capable defensively, and we saw him dominate Dennis and Sargent in Pokal. I just don't see Miller doing that. You could make the argument he should start with chemistry and all that, (and he's a way better passer tbf), but I think Scott is the future.

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This feels like splitting hairs between Miller, Cornelius and Kennedy. If we want to defer to national team experience, it should probably be Cornelius spot to lose, but Miller seems to have the inside track at the moment, so it's likely his spot to lose. I wouldn't say he has a firm grip on that LCB spot though, and it wouldn't surprise me whatsoever to see Kennedy come into next camp and come out as first choice. His speed and ability in the air will be assets to the team, plus I haven't seen many instances of him being rash and giving up fouls in dangerous areas, which we saw recently from Miller, unfortunately. Young players make mistakes, but it seems he bounced back last night, so trying not to read too much into it.

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9 hours ago, BrennanFan said:

Our CB pool is not deep enough for 3 at the back.  The above formations, though interesting, would weaken us overall.  

I hope we see Cavallini up top. He will create space for David and Larin.  

 

lineup.png

Not a bad lineup especially if this is for the Suriname match but now instead what I would do is: Take Kennedy out and replace him with Miller

I would have David play up front as our center forward

And I would bring in Theo Corbeanu to play alongside Davies and Larin

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9 hours ago, Shway said:

Yea I disagree on the ceiling bit. It probably looks like that because Kennedy has a tangible ceiling (which is the Bundesliga). MLS is the ceiling for the guys who play there. I also don’t know how you can say he’s more important for his club when he hasn’t played 3 consecutive 90 min games.

I think you rate 2.Bundesliga higher than I do...and clearly rate it over MLS. 

For perspective, MLS has far more better attackers than 2B that they go up against not only in training but in games too. The league overall is better than 2B imo.

Ive watched some of Kennedy’s games with Jahn, I’ve been impressed, but it’s relative to the level in terms of my comparisons.

For instance, Cornelius was playing in the Serbian 1st division, Scott was in Austrian 2nd Division. They both made moves up...but Imo one made a bigger step up. 

They all have similar assets, but Miller gets the leg up on the three because 1. he hasn’t put a foot wrong, 2. he’s familiar with the team, Vitoria and JHs system and 3. He consistently goes up against Concacaf opposition. 

Kennedy actually played 3 90 minute games a coupke weeks ago. They were 1-1-1, conceded one goal in each games, including 1 game against a Bundesliga team. He also is starting for the 3rd straight game today.

I don't disagree with you though. I think Miller should get the other CB spot beside Vitoria. I always liked Cornelius, I hope he starts getting some more time with Vancouver.

Kennedy is so intriguing, simply because I have never seen more than highlights from him. It was too bad he was hurt in March. I certainly like 2 Bundesliga is significantly better than Eerste division or unattached, so have him ahead of Sturring and Ferreira.

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48 minutes ago, Ruffian said:

If Henry is healthy and playing then I think he starts over Miller, Cornelius and Kennedy. If Henry was on the Whitecaps he is starting over Cornelius. If Henry was on Montreal he is starting over Miller.

Assuming we play Henry as a LCB, then yes. Not sure that happens though. When was the last time we had a right footer there?

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1 minute ago, VinceA said:

I can see Kennedy being in camp for June and then being in the Gold Cup squad in July.

This. I think if there is any crossover players it will be based on how much you play next month/age/availability. Which I believe the decisions JH is taking into account for Suriname. 

I just can't see him starting Kennedy unless he proves he leaps and bounds better than Miller or Henry/ those guys for whatever reason aren't available.  

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Shway said:

This. I think if there is any crossover players it will be based on how much you play next month/age/availability. Which I believe the decisions JH is taking into account for Suriname. 

I just can't see him starting Kennedy unless he proves he leaps and bounds better than Miller or Henry/ those guys for whatever reason aren't available.  

Yeah I figure if he's in the 23 for Canada in June Kennedy maybe gets a cameo against Aruba to get his first cap and then we see him in an extended run in July.

Edited by VinceA
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