US Virgin Islands-Canada match thread (R)

[shamrock]

3 hours ago, BCM1555362349 said:

I hear you, and am in two minds over this...Score more - I didn't say stop trying -  but as a coach you can't shout "two more" to rub it in when you're leading by eight with ten minutes to go. There's sportsmanship but to be honest it's also a safety issue. I could easily see a player on the other team - thoroughly embarrassed and now pissed off the coach wants more - to go out and try to break a leg of an opponent. In my younger days, I may have even done it.

 

I don't think that's rubbing it in, but just getting them to push for the max. Thats sports! And VI players all know the situation, no one's hurting their feelings. If they don't like their asses to get whooped, they shouldn't play. That's not be hateful but they are just a very small nation with amateur-level footballers. And I think the parked the bus fairly well, it was the only option for them (just like the MNT had to park the bus previously under Floro against much stronger opponents).  

[Keegan]

USVI knows what they’re up against vs even moderate sized Caribbean nations.  I’m sure their goal was to keep us under 10 and collect shirts for their Rec rooms.  

[Moldy9]

10 hours ago, thundercaps fan said:

The best part of this game was scoring 8 goals while the other team was parking the bus. If you look at the highlights to our previous record win against St. Lucia, there is some terrible defending. They are playing a high line and not even marking the Canadian players. I know US Virgin Islands is worse than St. Lucia but scoring 8 against them was great to see.

 

That was a severe spanking! That last goal was a 4 v 0 breakaway haha. 

[shorty]

7 hours ago, BCM1555362349 said:

I hear you, and am in two minds over this...Score more - I didn't say stop trying -  but as a coach you can't shout "two more" to rub it in when you're leading by eight with ten minutes to go. There's sportsmanship but to be honest it's also a safety issue. I could easily see a player on the other team - thoroughly embarrassed and now pissed off the coach wants more - to go out and try to break a leg of an opponent. In my younger days, I may have even done it.

 

My sense is that Herdman is very focussed on details and specific goals, both for each individual and for the team. I don't take him shouting "2 more" as rubbing it in, but rather as him keeping the team focussed on their game plan. I'm quite pleased to see this attitude (assuming that's what is going on).  It's in keeping with the professional mindset praised earlier in this thread, and which we are more familiar seeing from our national hockey team. Too long we seem to have had a "go out there, defend well and do your best" approach. 

As to the goals, the were all into the wind, which seemed strong. Certainly the wind seemed to catch a few corners coming from the near side. Maybe that's why DJ Ducky took shelter in the broadcast tent. 

[AvroArrow]

9 hours ago, BCM1555362349 said:

Ok the one thing that irks me, and has for several hours now that I can't let it go, is Herdman shouting "two more" when we were up by 8 goals. I have no problem with setting a team goal or even scoring ten, but to shout that during the match is disrespectful to the opponent, low class and quite frankly extremely amateurish.

There is no need to seek to embarrass an overtly over-matched group of amateurs playing international football. This is not the Canadian way and I am disappointed.

In a tournament this wide open and where your goals plus minus could potentially be a tie breaker, you have no choice but to run up the score.  You being nice and taking your foot off the gas at 5-0 could bite you in the end if someone you end up tied with didn't stop and won their game 10-0.  If CONCACAF doesn't want teams to run up the scores, then they will have to change the structure of the league.

[HochelagaFC]

Maybe pre game, one of they’re goal was to score 10 goals so when he shouted « 2 more » it was to remind them of that and keep them focus.

[Kent]

8 hours ago, Blackjack15 said:

Top 6 Qualify to Group A, you really think there won’t be 8-10 National Teams with 4W? Considering the level of some tier II and tier III opponents 

I really think that every team that wins all 4 games will be in League A, but that doesn't mean we will definitely be one of them. We could easily trip up against someone and get a draw or even a loss, at which point goal difference may matter.

There are only 8 teams from pot A, and they have to play another pot A team (for example, Jamaica and El Salvador can't both have 4 wins because they play each other). So let's start cracking numbers. I'll start at the top ranking-wise and see what this looks like. So I'll start with Jamaica, give them 4 wins, and losses to all their opponents, then move on to the next team that still has a shot at 4 wins, etc. Of course any team that already has a loss or a tie will be excluded from the hypothetical 4 win club I'll try to compile.

After the first 4 teams with 4 wins (Jamaica, Canada, Haiti, Martinique) we have eliminated the other 6 top 10 teams in this competition already. My full list of the most likely teams (with their CONCACAF ranking beside them) to maximize the number of 4 win teams is...

1. Jamaica (6)
2. Canada (7)
3. Haiti (9)
4. Martinique (12)
5. Curacao (18)
6. Dominican Republic (21)
7. Belize (24)
8. Aruba (33)
9. Saint Martin (38)

Once I got that far, the other 25 teams all had at least 1 loss or draw. So yeah, I don't expect there to be 8 or 10 teams with 4 wins. The schedule makes it almost impossible with the way it is spread out. I really don't expect teams like Belize, Aruba, or Saint Martin to win all 4 games. In fact, 4 of the 9 teams in my list haven't played their first game yet, so this list could very well shrink even further in the next 48 hours.

[mpg_29]

We won the first game by 8-0 and are still second in the standings because Cuba won it's first game 11-0. So racking up goals matter at this level as awkward as it may seem...

Concacaf has a severe drop off in quality after the top 8-10 teams...

[hamiltonfan]

4 minutes ago, Kent said:

I really think that every team that wins all 4 games will be in League A, but that doesn't mean we will definitely be one of them. We could easily trip up against someone and get a draw or even a loss, at which point goal difference may matter.

There are only 8 teams from pot A, and they have to play another pot A team (for example, Jamaica and El Salvador can't both have 4 wins because they play each other). So let's start cracking numbers. I'll start at the top ranking-wise and see what this looks like. So I'll start with Jamaica, give them 4 wins, and losses to all their opponents, then move on to the next team that still has a shot at 4 wins, etc. Of course any team that already has a loss or a tie will be excluded from the hypothetical 4 win club I'll try to compile.

After the first 4 teams with 4 wins (Jamaica, Canada, Haiti, Martinique) we have eliminated the other 6 top 10 teams in this competition already. My full list of the most likely teams (with their CONCACAF ranking beside them) to maximize the number of 4 win teams is...

1. Jamaica (6)
2. Canada (7)
3. Haiti (9)
4. Martinique (12)
5. Curacao (18)
6. Dominican Republic (21)
7. Belize (24)
8. Aruba (33)
9. Saint Martin (38)

Once I got that far, the other 25 teams all had at least 1 loss or draw. So yeah, I don't expect there to be 8 or 10 teams with 4 wins. The schedule makes it almost impossible with the way it is spread out. I really don't expect teams like Belize, Aruba, or Saint Martin to win all 4 games. In fact, 4 of the 9 teams in my list haven't played their first game yet, so this list could very well shrink even further in the next 48 hours.

Interesting. You mention certain teams from Pot A must play other Pot A teams in LON qualifiers (referencing Jamaica vs El Salvador), what other Pot A vs Pot A games are the schedule? Why wasn’t Canada schedule to play another Pot A country?

[Keegan]

Looking at Curacaos roster and matches they should be a contender to finish with 4 wins.  But really, while possible, I don’t see more than 3 teams finishing with 4 wins.  

St Lucia could be a big surprise.. they play Haiti and Aruba at home and Cayman Islands away.  If they go to the Gold Cup or A league I could see Cannigia Elva joining them.

[aloyol]

27 minutes ago, hamiltonfan said:

Interesting. You mention certain teams from Pot A must play other Pot A teams in LON qualifiers (referencing Jamaica vs El Salvador), what other Pot A vs Pot A games are the schedule? Why wasn’t Canada schedule to play another Pot A country?

French Guiana is our pot A opponent.

Haiti vs Cuba

Guadeloupe vs Martinique

El Salvador vs Jamaica

All to be played on the last day.

[Snowcrash]

Here's a picture of Larin and David together after the game.  Larin looks like a tank.

https://twitter.com/Mavromaras/status/1038946337600012296/photo/1

On a slightly different note, wonder if David can squeeze out a few more years of growth to gain an inch or two.

 

 

 

[DrFitzpatrick]

5 hours ago, shamrock said:

I hear you, and am in two minds over this...Score more - I didn't say stop trying -  but as a coach you can't shout "two more" to rub it in when you're leading by eight with ten minutes to go. There's sportsmanship but to be honest it's also a safety issue. I could easily see a player on the other team - thoroughly embarrassed and now pissed off the coach wants more - to go out and try to break a leg of an opponent. In my younger days, I may have even done it.

 

It's funny how sports works.  In soccer, its ok to run the score where as an NHL team will essentially 'park the bus' when they are way ahead and play their 3rd and 4th lines.  Try stealing bases and bunting in baseball with a huge lead and get ready to have your batter eat a baseball;  American Football on the other hand seems to have no limits. 

[dyslexic nam]

14 minutes ago, DrFitzpatrick said:

It's funny how sports works.  In soccer, its ok to run the score where as an NHL team will essentially 'park the bus' when they are way ahead and play their 3rd and 4th lines.  Try stealing bases and bunting in baseball with a huge lead and get ready to have your batter eat a baseball;  American Football on the other hand seems to have no limits. 

Again though, the CNL is structured in such a way that goal differential could be key.  If there were scenarios in any of those more reserved sports where running up the score was not only advantage but potentially a big factor in determining success, and they would do it too.  Under most normal circumstance in soccer - even at the youth level - teams tend to seriously take their foot off the gas when they have a substantial lead.  And at the top level, leagues have been won and lost on goal differential, so it is understandable why you bury an opponent.  Sports with playoffs generally don't face that same sort of pressure.

[Keegan]

13 minutes ago, DrFitzpatrick said:

It's funny how sports works.  In soccer, its ok to run the score where as an NHL team will essentially 'park the bus' when they are way ahead and play their 3rd and 4th lines.  Try stealing bases and bunting in baseball with a huge lead and get ready to have your batter eat a baseball;  American Football on the other hand seems to have no limits. 

The worst is basketball.. they cry if you score a basket when the game is over instead of defending.

[aloyol]

7 minutes ago, Keegan said:

The worst is basketball.. they cry if you score a basket when the game is over instead of defending.

The worst to me is in the NFL when they put the knee down instead of playing...can't stand that.

[Admin]

There was a need to run up the score, a really serious one. 

This qualifiitcation process is 100% set up on goal difference.

Look at the standings table here and tell me you would have wanted a 3-0 game. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019–20_CONCACAF_Nations_League_qualifying

 

[KW519]

21 minutes ago, Keegan said:

The worst is basketball.. they cry if you score a basket when the game is over instead of defending.

It's considered highly disrespectful to run the score up in basketball outside of International competition. Point differential doesn't come into play in Basketball leagues, so there's no point in rubbing salt in wounds. That's why you will only ever see young rookies or immature players trying to score eith a 20pt lead and the shot clock turned off.

 

17 minutes ago, aloyol said:

The worst to me is in the NFL when they put the knee down instead of playing...can't stand that.

That's actually part of the game like it or not, it's strategic. Why give your opponent a chance to come back when you can run the clock down and take a knee?

[DrFitzpatrick]

16 minutes ago, aloyol said:

The worst to me is in the NFL when they put the knee down instead of playing...can't stand that

I can't stand that either.  A 60 minute game with only about 20 minutes of that ACTUAL game play.  In addition, after almost every play you get either a penalty flag, video review or TV timeout.  Games take 3.5 hours.  There you go, you got me started...

[aloyol]

4 minutes ago, KW519 said:

It's considered highly disrespectful to run the score up in basketball outside of International competition. Point differential doesn't come into play in Basketball leagues, so there's no point in rubbing salt in wounds. That's why you will only ever see young rookies or immature players trying to score eith a 20pt lead and the shot clock turned off.

 

That's actually part of the game like it or not, it's strategic. Why give your opponent a chance to come back when you can run the clock down and take a knee?

I know it's part of the game but it's a part I don't like. I'm not saying to throw the ball in these circumstances but at least try a play (a run and secure the ball). I find the kneeling down coward.

[theaub]

Sorry but the clear loser here is baseball where pitchers get all sad and throw 95 MPH at a guy when he shows some emotion.

[jpg75]

6 minutes ago, aloyol said:

I know it's part of the game but it's a part I don't like. I'm not saying to throw the ball in these circumstances but at least try a play (a run and secure the ball). I find the kneeling down coward.

It does happen that a RB can be stripped of the ball. If it's a one possession game you take the knee and win the game, it's the smart thing to do.

[BCM]

16 minutes ago, admin said:

There was a need to run up the score, a really serious one. 

This qualifiitcation process is 100% set up on goal difference.

Look at the standings table here and tell me you would have wanted a 3-0 game. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019–20_CONCACAF_Nations_League_qualifying

 

For now, but I think @Kent clearly showed we're making too much of goal differential. We win our games, we're through. We draw one, we're very, very likely to be through. We lose, we don't deserve to go through.

[aloyol]

3 minutes ago, jpg75 said:

It does happen that a RB can be stripped of the ball. If it's a one possession game you take the knee and win the game, it's the smart thing to do.

I know that you can loose the ball. That's my point, play the game instead of putting the knee down.

Of course, it's the smart thing to do but IMO it shouldn't be allowed. I hate to see the clock run down for a 1-2 minutes with a QB kneeling 3 times. 

[KW519]

1 minute ago, aloyol said:

I know it's part of the game but it's a part I don't like. I'm not saying to throw the ball in these circumstances but at least try a play (a run and secure the ball). I find the kneeling down coward.

Run the ball, fumble, other team runs a 2 minute drill to perfection, coach get's fired, team misses playoffs etc... There's just not enough logic behind running a play when you're in a position to control the outcome of that game. QB's take shots all game from 300lb linebackers too, that's kind of a sucky move calling them cowards after they get laid out all game. 

Good on Canada for running their score up though. Football is one of the few sports where goal differential comes into play on a regular basis. I remember watching Utd lose the league to City because City had a better differential.