The Importance of Alphonso Davies

[dyslexic nam]

14 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I am not a Benfica fan, or a Manchester anything fan, or a Bayern fan, or a Juve fan. Or Madrid. Or PSG. I don't need them to win for any Canadian playing on those teams to be useful for the CMNT. 

I don't understand why folks insist on the world being one-dimensional.

 

I mean, you have publicly stated multiple times that you strongly dislike Bayern.  And if presented with the choice of Bayern winning trophies or not, your previous post states that the “ideal scenario” is that “Bayern wins no trophies”.  I am not sure why Canadian fans would actively hope for a lack of success for our players at club level except for personal biases.  

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

In football in general it tends to be the case that the more games you win, the more games you play against higher quality opposition.  

It would take an extraordinary club situation (Stalteri 2005-2008, for instance) for me to not want Canadians' team to win every game.

[Unnamed Trialist]

20 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

I mean, you have publicly stated multiple times that you strongly dislike Bayern.  And if presented with the choice of Bayern winning trophies or not, your previous post states that the “ideal scenario” is that “Bayern wins no trophies”.  I am not sure why Canadian fans would actively hope for a lack of success for our players at club level except for personal biases.  

I appreciate you put on a Blackpool beanie every time Corbeanu plays, to each his own.

Canada does not need Bayern to win anything, or Lille, or Bruges, or TFC. The whole idea of dropping your club affiliations and those you dislike and faking you like a team because there is a Canadian on it, well I said it: let's not be fucking hypocrites.

If you have no club team living in PEI, I can understand that, fine. But why ask others just to put on a big fake mask and lie their asses off so you can feel better?

I have never liked Bayern, ever. Not even in the 70s when we watched "Football made in Germany" on PBS. Same as the only team I have every supported in England, since I was a teen, is Liverpool. 

Then, if a Canadian plays for a team I have no opinion of, or where I don't have a favourite like in Turkey, I'm fine rooting for Besiktas to the limit. Because I would not be two-faced doing it. But you want us to be two-faced.

Edited September 11, 2022 by Unnamed Trialist

[El Hombre]

I feel like you're projecting here.

[dyslexic nam]

2 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I appreciate you put on a Blackpool beanie every time Corbeanu plays, to each his own.

Canada does not need Bayern to win anything, or Lille, or Bruges, or TFC. The whole idea of dropping your club affiliations and those you dislike and faking you like a team because there is a Canadian on it, well I said it: let's not be fucking hypocrites.

If you have no club team living in PEI, I can understand that, fine. But why ask others just to put on a big fake mask and lie their asses off so you can feel better?

I have never liked Bayern, ever. Not even in the 70s when we watched "Football made in Germany" on PBS. Same as the only team I have every supported in England, since I was a teen, is Liverpool. 

Then, if a Canadian plays for a team I have no opinion of, or where I don't have a favourite like in Turkey, I'm fine rooting for Besiktas to the limit. Because I would not be two-faced doing it. But you want us to be two-faced.

No, I don’t want people to be two faced. I am just pointing out the bias in your statement:  

 

“…Bayern wins no trophies. 

Ideal scenario for all.”

 

That is in no way ideal for any V who doesn’t hold a strong dislike for Bayern.  Everyone else should be hoping for our guys to have club success.  

[Obinna]

2 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I appreciate you put on a Blackpool beanie every time Corbeanu plays, to each his own.

Canada does not need Bayern to win anything, or Lille, or Bruges, or TFC. The whole idea of dropping your club affiliations and those you dislike and faking you like a team because there is a Canadian on it, well I said it: let's not be fucking hypocrites.

If you have no club team living in PEI, I can understand that, fine. But why ask others just to put on a big fake mask and lie their asses off so you can feel better?

I have never liked Bayern, ever. Not even in the 70s when we watched "Football made in Germany" on PBS. Same as the only team I have every supported in England, since I was a teen, is Liverpool. 

Then, if a Canadian plays for a team I have no opinion of, or where I don't have a favourite like in Turkey, I'm fine rooting for Besiktas to the limit. Because I would not be two-faced doing it. But you want us to be two-faced.

What makes you different than myself and others, I suspect, is that I am very much a country over club guy, but I don't believe you are, which is fine I guess.

I have clubs I like, such as TFC (getting harder by the day), Cavalry (local club), Arsenal (boyhood club), and even Barcelona (had an ex who kind of hooked me on them, but they are hard to like now, and not because we aren't together lol).

But, since I basically only watch club games now if they have Canadians (or sometimes CONCACAF players), I tend to cheer for the clubs with those players, naturally.

So yeah, I hope Bayern wins as much as possible, since it means Davies wins as much as possible. Do I want Lille to win a trophy? You bet. Even though they frusturate the hell out of me, a trophy for David would be great. Brugge and Porto win more silverware? Fantastic for Eustaquio, Buchanan and Larin! I imagine @dyslexic nam feels similar. It's not about not having a club team, and it's definitely not about living in PEI (that's silly), it's about putting country over club. This is the voyageurs, after all. Do you expect different?

I won't go as far to say you should wish for your club, Barcelona, to lose against Bayern, but couldn't you be at least be happy to see them win if your club cannot, for Davies' sake? 

Edit: And if you have specific reasons to hate Bayern, which are stronger than your desire to see Davies win trophies, then I get that. But if you start extending that to Brugge (because they are pretentious), or Toronto (because they are corporate and yucky), then I start to have less understanding of your POV. 

I say this as someone who doesn't really hate any club though, because again I am not a club guy, so maybe I just don't get it. All my football hate goes into Honduras

Edited September 11, 2022 by Obinna

[RS]

On 9/10/2022 at 11:12 AM, Watchmen said:

With the EPL unexpectedly off this weekend, Sportsnet would have been smart to move this game to their regular channel and then promote it/Davies. 

There's nothing stopping them from doing this every weekend.

[Watchmen]

47 minutes ago, RS said:

There's nothing stopping them from doing this every weekend.

There isn't, and Bayern does show up on the regular network.  I'm just saying they were handed an opportunity to really push/promote the product and they failed to do so.  Mind you, I thought they dropped the ball when they dropped all of their soccer panel after losing the EPL, even though the Bundesliga plays some attractive and entertaining football.

[RS]

13 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

There isn't, and Bayern does show up on the regular network.  I'm just saying they were handed an opportunity to really push/promote the product and they failed to do so.  Mind you, I thought they dropped the ball when they dropped all of their soccer panel after losing the EPL, even though the Bundesliga plays some attractive and entertaining football.

I understood what you were saying, I was just adding to that point. 

Sportsnet has done the bare minimum with the few remaining soccer properties it still has.

[Unnamed Trialist]

3 hours ago, Obinna said:

What makes you different than myself and others, I suspect, is that I am very much a country over club guy, but I don't believe you are, which is fine I guess.

I have clubs I like, such as TFC (getting harder by the day), Cavalry (local club), Arsenal (boyhood club), and even Barcelona (had an ex who kind of hooked me on them, but they are hard to like now, and not because we aren't together lol).

But, since I basically only watch club games now if they have Canadians (or sometimes CONCACAF players), I tend to cheer for the clubs with those players, naturally.

So yeah, I hope Bayern wins as much as possible, since it means Davies wins as much as possible. Do I want Lille to win a trophy? You bet. Even though they frusturate the hell out of me, a trophy for David would be great. Brugge and Porto win more silverware? Fantastic for Eustaquio, Buchanan and Larin! I imagine @dyslexic nam feels similar. It's not about not having a club team, and it's definitely not about living in PEI (that's silly), it's about putting country over club. This is the voyageurs, after all. Do you expect different?

I won't go as far to say you should wish for your club, Barcelona, to lose against Bayern, but couldn't you be at least be happy to see them win if your club cannot, for Davies' sake? 

Edit: And if you have specific reasons to hate Bayern, which are stronger than your desire to see Davies win trophies, then I get that. But if you start extending that to Brugge (because they are pretentious), or Toronto (because they are corporate and yucky), then I start to have less understanding of your POV. 

I say this as someone who doesn't really hate any club though, because again I am not a club guy, so maybe I just don't get it. All my football hate goes into Honduras

I didn't say I hate Bruges, I was just commenting on the attitude of fans criticising Larin. Having been in Belgium recently and my son studying there a year, I have my own opinions. INor TFC: I want them to lose vs. the Whitecaps and win everything else, if they can. Same with Montreal. Everything else depends on the given season or set of circumstances.

All I said is that Canada does not need our players to win trophies for us to be a good national team. Funny that on that basis you think you are more a country fan than a club fan, when I think my view shows I could be more a country fan than you...at least the argument could be made. Vitoria plays his guts out for Canada and relegated last season, and that does not present any problem at all for me (though I'm happy he was resigned to a top flight club for this season).

I am fine with Canada winning regardless of what the players do for their clubs. If you were really a Canada fan--just for arguments sake--you might think the same. 

I only really dislike Real Madrid, the big London clubs, la Juve. And PSG. I also hate the Sounders. I prefer Boca over River, Celtic over Rangers (though I realise when Rangers was relegated administratively it was not good for Celtic either). 

And Bayern Munich, which has this monopoly control over the Bundesliga which is bad for German football, and more so when fan bases in Dortmund or elsewhere are far better. I can't say I really have a German club team but I used to like Moenchengladbach, maybe memories from the 70s.

Edited September 11, 2022 by Unnamed Trialist

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I didn't say I hate Bruges, I was just commenting on the attitude of fans criticising Larin. Having been in Belgium recently and my son studying there a year, I have my own opinions. INor TFC: I want them to lose vs. the Whitecaps and win everything else, if they can. Same with Montreal. Everything else depends on the given season or set of circumstances.

All I said is that Canada does not need our players to win trophies for us to be a good national team. Funny that on that basis you think you are more a country fan than a club fan, when I think my view shows I could be more a country fan than you...at least the argument could be made. Vitoria plays his guts out for Canada and relegated last season, and that does not present any problem at all for me (though I'm happy he was resigned to a top flight club for this season).

I am fine with Canada winning regardless of what the players do for their clubs. If you were really a Canada fan--just for arguments sake--you might think the same. 

I only really dislike Real Madrid, the big London clubs, la Juve. And PSG. I also hate the Sounders. I prefer Boca over River, Celtic over Rangers (though I realise when Rangers was relegated administratively it was not good for Celtic either). 

And Bayern Munich, which has this monopoly control over the Bundesliga which is bad for German football, and more so when fan bases in Dortmund or elsewhere are far better. I can't say I really have a German club team but I used to like Moenchengladbach, maybe memories from the 70s.

Fair enough on Brugges, and most of your post is fair. I don't really get how you couldn't want our Canadian players to win as many trophies as possible though. I get your argument that winning games for Canada is the main thing, I agree with that. For me though, I wish these boys the best in their club endevours as well, simply because it pads their resume and gives them some juice to bring back to the national team.

David signing with Madrid and winning a trophy is just as welcomed as David signing for Barca and winning a trophy. In either case, it makes him a winner. I don't care who the club is. What matters is that our boys are winning things and gaining that winning mentality. 

Now, if they go on a strong run in the World Cup, then win Nations League and Gold Cup, but none of them win anything at club level, I take that trade any day of the week. However, that's different than not wanting Davies, for example, to win a trophy because Bayern Munich has a monoply on German football, know what I mean? Good, I hope it continues, and if and when he leaves I may pull for a Dortmund upset to break the trend, but I certainly don't want the likes of Reyna winning a trophy instead of Davies. That's just silly to me.

[Unnamed Trialist]

26 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Fair enough on Brugges, and most of your post is fair. I don't really get how you couldn't want our Canadian players to win as many trophies as possible though. I get your argument that winning games for Canada is the main thing, I agree with that. For me though, I wish these boys the best in their club endevours as well, simply because it pads their resume and gives them some juice to bring back to the national team.

David signing with Madrid and winning a trophy is just as welcomed as David signing for Barca and winning a trophy. In either case, it makes him a winner. I don't care who the club is. What matters is that our boys are winning things and gaining that winning mentality. 

Now, if they go on a strong run in the World Cup, then win Nations League and Gold Cup, but none of them win anything at club level, I take that trade any day of the week. However, that's different than not wanting Davies, for example, to win a trophy because Bayern Munich has a monoply on German football, know what I mean? Good, I hope it continues, and if and when he leaves I may pull for a Dortmund upset to break the trend, but I certainly don't want the likes of Reyna winning a trophy instead of Davies. That's just silly to me.

So we don't agree that Bayern Munich can burn in hell? 

Fortunately Davies will leave as well, soon enough. And he'll be much happier for it when he does.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

2 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

So we don't agree that Bayern Munich can burn in hell? 

Fortunately Davies will leave as well, soon enough. And he'll be much happier for it when he does.

Not having the luxury of picking a club team that has ever won very much (other than the World Cup well before I was born 😉), I am happy to be able to have a local kid challenging regularly for trophies and playing against the best in world.

[Obinna]

3 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

So we don't agree that Bayern Munich can burn in hell? 

Fortunately Davies will leave as well, soon enough. And he'll be much happier for it when he does.

You didn't address the meat of my post there, but to each there own. If you want to see Davies fail to win trophies at Bayern because you don't like them, fine go ahead, but you're not fooling anyone by suggesting you are a club over country guy. And again, that's totally cool, and you can be honest about it. It's not like that makes you a fake Canadian fan, or something. You know you are a Canadian fan through-and-through, and have been longer than most. You are allowed to be a die-hard Canadian fan, while being very much engaged in the club game (outside of Canadian content). But you must admit, it's a strange position to be in, and certainly a minority position, wishing Davies doesn't win the Bundesliga, or the Champions League, over some beef you have with the club he plays for. I am sure you more than anyone wishes that wasn't the case!

[Unnamed Trialist]

8 hours ago, Obinna said:

You didn't address the meat of my post there, but to each there own. If you want to see Davies fail to win trophies at Bayern because you don't like them, fine go ahead, but you're not fooling anyone by suggesting you are a club over country guy. And again, that's totally cool, and you can be honest about it. It's not like that makes you a fake Canadian fan, or something. You know you are a Canadian fan through-and-through, and have been longer than most. You are allowed to be a die-hard Canadian fan, while being very much engaged in the club game (outside of Canadian content). But you must admit, it's a strange position to be in, and certainly a minority position, wishing Davies doesn't win the Bundesliga, or the Champions League, over some beef you have with the club he plays for. I am sure you more than anyone wishes that wasn't the case!

Not a single Egyptian and national team fan of any of Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, Manchester United, not to mention Everton, want Liverpool to win anything, ever. 

Which does not make them any less Salah fans. Or Egypt fans.

You simply are not connecting with basic club culture, and, thereby, core football culture.

Edited September 12, 2022 by Unnamed Trialist

[Shway]

I didn’t know Bayern and Barca were direct rivals….thought it was only a UCL thing. 

Another questionable interesting take from UT that I think everyone is lost in understanding. 

[Sal333]

19 hours ago, Obinna said:

What makes you different than myself and others, I suspect, is that I am very much a country over club guy......

I

You hit the nail on the head!

That's basically my take. I'm that way in most sports. Except in hockey, growing up I hated the Bruins. The Canadiens are my team. But I've changed. I don't dislike any team. In soccer I want any team with Canucks in it to succeed. Maybe that's because I never really had a strong allegiance to any team except for Napoli and even then it was more a roots  thing than a love of their brand of soccer. My family comes from a province not far from Naples. But if Napoli today plays Brugge, Bayern or Lille, it wouldn't upset me one bit if they lose.

[El Hombre]

19 minutes ago, Shway said:

I didn’t know Bayern and Barca were direct rivals….thought it was only a UCL thing. 

Another questionable interesting take from UT that I think everyone is lost in understanding. 

I know I have.  However, I'm well aware that I'm not good at being a proper fan.  I once drank a beer while watching a game live and I've yet to get over that shame.

I have such a long way to go...

[P-O]

I am aware I might be thrown sticks and rocks for sharing this opinion, but it has been on my mind for a while watching all our CMS play recently.

I also have been trying to figure how we can use our strengh as a nation to be effective, especially versus Belgium & Croatia when we will play counter.

 

We desperately need a runner in Central Midfield, and Osorio has been good for us in the CONCACAF, but he lacks pace.

Eustachio is the controler, Hutch/Pietter are destroyer and we need someone that can run.

 

I believe this tactic would be our best formation but also the best use of our players for this World Cup.

Our back 3 flanked with Adekudge & Laryea to provide witdh, speed & they have the fitness + defensive quality to sit tight and low.

Our midfield would have Piette as a #6, Eustachio as a roaming playmaker & Davies that could run & open space for David / Larin.

[JamboAl]

3 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Not a single Egyptian and national team fan of any of Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, Manchester United, not to mention Everton, want Liverpool to win anything, ever. 

Which does not make them any less Salah fans. Or Egypt fans.

You simply are not connecting with basic club culture, and, thereby, core football culture.

I have to agree with you here.  I love the way Scott Arfield plays and have  met him a couple of times but I hate Rangers.  I will always hope he does well but am thrilled when they get thrashed.  
 

Same with Adrian Serioux and Josh Simpson when they werewith Millwall; as a former Charlton Athletic season ticket holder, I hate Millwall the most and would revel in their failures not because they were despicable people (they aren’t) but because of who they played for.  And yes, it is tribalism unfortunately.  I have nothing against Bayern so can’t cheer against them when Davies is in the team…now RB Leipzig, that would be different.

[Obinna]

2 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

You simply are not connecting with basic club culture

Agreed. I understand it's place in football, I just couldn't be bothered to be overly engaged in it, outside of cancon. Wasn't always that way, that's just how I evolved as a fan of football. I still follow it, and am interested in it, but not deeply as the international game.

3 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

and, thereby, core football culture.

Spoken like a true club over country guy

Just giving you a hard time. I know what you mean. The international game will always be the sideshow, but it's the show I care about more, and the WC remains the premier competition in the sport.

[Obinna]

28 minutes ago, P-O said:

I am aware I might be thrown sticks and rocks for sharing this opinion, but it has been on my mind for a while watching all our CMS play recently.

I also have been trying to figure how we can use our strengh as a nation to be effective, especially versus Belgium & Croatia when we will play counter.

 

We desperately need a runner in Central Midfield, and Osorio has been good for us in the CONCACAF, but he lacks pace.

Eustachio is the controler, Hutch/Pietter are destroyer and we need someone that can run.

 

I believe this tactic would be our best formation but also the best use of our players for this World Cup.

Our back 3 flanked with Adekudge & Laryea to provide witdh, speed & they have the fitness + defensive quality to sit tight and low.

Our midfield would have Piette as a #6, Eustachio as a roaming playmaker & Davies that could run & open space for David / Larin.

I don't know if I like it, and I don't agree we need it, but I can totally see Herdman experimenting with Davies in the middle. Or possibly Buchanan if you want a runner in there.

[Sal333]

56 minutes ago, P-O said:

I am aware I might be thrown sticks and rocks for sharing this opinion, but it has been on my mind for a while watching all our CMS play recently.

I also have been trying to figure how we can use our strengh as a nation to be effective, especially versus Belgium & Croatia when we will play counter.

 

We desperately need a runner in Central Midfield, and Osorio has been good for us in the CONCACAF, but he lacks pace.

Eustachio is the controler, Hutch/Pietter are destroyer and we need someone that can run.

 

I believe this tactic would be our best formation but also the best use of our players for this World Cup.

Our back 3 flanked with Adekudge & Laryea to provide witdh, speed & they have the fitness + defensive quality to sit tight and low.

Our midfield would have Piette as a #6, Eustachio as a roaming playmaker & Davies that could run & open space for David / Larin.

Phew! When you said runner I thought you were thinking of getting Andre Degrasse or god forbid Donovan Bailey to switch to soccer.

Kidding aside!

I brought this up about a year ago and some posters countered with Davies in the middle his speed would be eliminated because he doesn't have the dribbling, passing, patience and dexterity to work through a midfield defense. At the time I saw their point but if our midfield loses 2 or 3 of its mainstays which looks most likely I would try Davies in the midfield during the friendlies.

Another option would be to play David as a #10. If I remember correctly the last game against the USA he was deployed  as a #10 and he looked great. Also, before moving to Europe he played as a midfielder.

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, Obinna said:

Agreed. I understand it's place in football, I just couldn't be bothered to be overly engaged in it, outside of cancon. Wasn't always that way, that's just how I evolved as a fan of football. I still follow it, and am interested in it, but not deeply as the international game.

Spoken like a true club over country guy

Just giving you a hard time. I know what you mean. The international game will always be the sideshow, but it's the show I care about more, and the WC remains the premier competition in the sport.

We're just shooting the shit, it's all good.

One thing that is often true is that players use their national team to escape from rough club seasons or situations, and equally find things in their clubs their nations don't give them.

Including players from top nations who find they succeed in one and not the other. Or where great players don't make the national team, or the national team is not going to be strong enough to make a World Cup in normal circumstances, so they only have the club as a refuge. 

This has meant, for years, that the CMNT was a mess so players had to pour everything into their clubs. Stalteri found success this way, De Ro too. Almost their only satisfaction was club football. Then we may get those guys who had modest club careers but could score a winning goal for Canada and win a trophy, thinking Richard Hastings, whose only Canada goal was the golden that gave us the Gold Cup (just checked back, that same year he won the Scottish Cup over Celtic with Inverness Caledonian Thistle, so there was that one club glory too for him).

I'm pretty sure if Davies is having a good club year up to early November, he'll leverage that for Canada. And if he isn't, then he'd also leverage that club frustration for Canada (press reports out of Germany today say the squad is bothered with Nagelsmann for not accepting any responsibility and blaming the players exclusively after these 3 league draws).

[PegCityCam]

2 hours ago, P-O said:

I am aware I might be thrown sticks and rocks for sharing this opinion, but it has been on my mind for a while watching all our CMS play recently.

I also have been trying to figure how we can use our strengh as a nation to be effective, especially versus Belgium & Croatia when we will play counter.

 

We desperately need a runner in Central Midfield, and Osorio has been good for us in the CONCACAF, but he lacks pace.

Eustachio is the controler, Hutch/Pietter are destroyer and we need someone that can run.

 

I believe this tactic would be our best formation but also the best use of our players for this World Cup.

Our back 3 flanked with Adekudge & Laryea to provide witdh, speed & they have the fitness + defensive quality to sit tight and low.

Our midfield would have Piette as a #6, Eustachio as a roaming playmaker & Davies that could run & open space for David / Larin.

Interesting...Could Hoilett not slot in for where you have Piette/Hutch?