Alessandro Busti - 18 year old keeper with Juventus

[Keegan]

12 minutes ago, Oranje said:

 

"Online databases such as InStat, Wyscout and Transfermarkt were scoured, and Busti was among the names that popped up." 

no love for the Vees...

Too true but imagine saying that in the Canadian media “there’s this great forum that alerted us to him”.. 

little do they know, the voyageurs site is a much better source than those silly websites listed, which don’t include pages of commentary, odd facts and cries to cap tie.

[Keegan]

I keep thinking about this and I don’t know if this guy should be capped.  It doesn’t seem right.. he can’t even get a game for Juventus youth teams (yes, plural). 

Hes about 7th on their keeper depth chart and has played around 5 matches the past year.  That’s probably good enough for the u20s but not our senior squad and he shouldn’t be capped because he has an Italy passport.. he had no chance of ever playing for Italy and he said as much. 

Edited October 15, 2018 by Keegan

[dyslexic nam]

I guess I don't see the downside in capping him in a safe match like this.  He is still a kid, our depth post-Borjan isn't amazing, and any of the keepers we took to this match should be up to the task.  For me it isn't about an Italy passport, it is about a young guy in a top end system (that has produced one of the best keepers in history) that has oodles of potential.  In a match like this, that is good enough for me.

[Keegan]

44 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

I guess I don't see the downside in capping him in a safe match like this.  He is still a kid, our depth post-Borjan isn't amazing, and any of the keepers we took to this match should be up to the task.  For me it isn't about an Italy passport, it is about a young guy in a top end system (that has produced one of the best keepers in history) that has oodles of potential.  In a match like this, that is good enough for me.

The downside is you’re giving a guy a cap who hasn’t earned it and is in Canada for his second time.  That’s two negatives.. at least Arfields football had earned him a cap before he played for us. He has zero chance of playing for Italy so why are we knee jerk capping him?  We have had other keepers In youth systems at big clubs who never got a cap.. this is just a bad precedent.  If he actually played games for Juventus youth I would have an easier time accepting it but he never plays.  Or heck, even if he proves himself with our u20s I’ll be more accepting of a cap.  But now?  

He’s ours.  Stop worrying about playing a guy because he has another passport.. the whole “he’s at a big club” thing doesn’t check out if he never plays.. Guyana has a keeper at Liverpool as well, so what? (And he’s probably higher on their depth chart than Busti for Juve) 

Also, Buffon was developed at Parma.

 

[El Diego]

Herdman has said (I think on a Sportsnet interview) that he's not going to cap players just to cap them. Now, that is assuredly what he'd say regardless of what's true, but hopefully it actually is true. While I am in the camp that we should be cap tying players whenever we can basically, there are situations where doing so would make you lose credibility with other players. If this kid is miles below the necessary level and gets minutes then that will not send a  good message to the rest of the squad. And let's be honest, we need good optics. Despite the recent good news regarding call ups, we are still in a precarious position overall with who plays for us.

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, Keegan said:

I keep thinking about this and I don’t know if this guy should be capped.  It doesn’t seem right.. he can’t even get a game for Juventus youth teams (yes, plural). 

Hes about 7th on their keeper depth chart and has played around 5 matches the past year.  That’s probably good enough for the u20s but not our senior squad and he shouldn’t be capped because he has an Italy passport.. he had no chance of ever playing for Italy and he said as much. 

He may be 7th on the Juve depth chart for keepers, but it's Juve.

If our coaching staff deem him to he the best of our 3 keepers in camp, and he gets the start tomorrow, then so be it.

He isn't competing against the keepers in the Juventus system, he's competing against Pantemis, the third choice at the Montreal Impact (4th if we include Crepeau), and Thomas who is playing at "I have never heard of em" FC in the Norway second tier.

I wonder where either would rank in the Juve depth chart?

[dyslexic nam]

I also think that these games are a rather unique opportunity.  We very rarely get a chance to play official matches against minnows where we can be quite certain about getting the win regardless of who is playing in any single position (even keeper).  Goal differential aside, this is the safest environment we can envision for capping young players.  We did it last match and I think we should keep doing it while it is a safe and secure option.    This won't be the norm in the coming years when GC, CNL later rounds, and WCQ are the official matches - and where we will play a higher calibre opponent.  Given this unique opportunity and the reality that it in no way establishes a precedent that will continue into the future, I am still supportive.

[shamrock]

12 minutes ago, Keegan said:

He’s ours.  Stop worrying about playing a guy because he has another passport.. the whole “he’s at a big club” thing doesn’t check out if he never plays.. Guyana has a keeper at Liverpool as well, so what? (And he’s probably higher on their depth chart than Busti for Juve) 

7 minutes ago, Obinna said:

He isn't competing against the keepers in the Juventus system, he's competing against Pantemis, the third choice at the Montreal Impact (4th if we include Crepeau), and Thomas who is playing at "I have never heard of em" FC in the Norway second tier.

It is yet to be determined what is the higher level football, Toptier youth football vs second tier Norway...I don't remember you saying this about Millar, what has he done that warrants a cap besides youth footy?

[Califax]

Cap him. 

When you accept a call up, you understand that you could be capped. That's why he's here. 

 

[aloyol]

To me, the only thing that could justify starting him tomorrow is if he's earned it during training.

Imagine, let's say Pantemis is way above Busti and Thomas during training and everyone, players and coaching staff, can see that it's the case. It's sending a very poor message to the players if you start Busti in this scenario.

Let's start the best of our 3 keepers in camp.

 

[gator]

25 minutes ago, aloyol said:

To me, the only thing that could justify starting him tomorrow is if he's earned it during training.

Imagine, let's say Pantemis is way above Busti and Thomas during training and everyone, players and coaching staff, can see that it's the case. It's sending a very poor message to the players if you start Busti in this scenario.

Let's start the best of our 3 keepers in camp.

 

I agree with you but unless he is way behind the other 2 I see no reason not to start him, we don't get many of these opportunities and I'm sure all of the players understand the dynamics of it!

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, shamrock said:

It is yet to be determined what is the higher level football, Toptier youth football vs second tier Norway...I don't remember you saying this about Millar, what has he done that warrants a cap besides youth footy?

Well he did very well when he did get a chance, so consequently he got another chance, and now he's been called to his third camp in a row.

[Califax]

40 minutes ago, aloyol said:

To me, the only thing that could justify starting him tomorrow is if he's earned it during training.

Imagine, let's say Pantemis is way above Busti and Thomas during training and everyone, players and coaching staff, can see that it's the case. It's sending a very poor message to the players if you start Busti in this scenario.

Let's start the best of our 3 keepers in camp.

 

Lose the battle.

Win the war. 

[aloyol]

12 minutes ago, gator said:

I agree with you but unless he is way behind the other 2 I see no reason not to start him, we don't get many of these opportunities and I'm sure all of the players understand the dynamics of it!

I doubt this sort of management would sit well with the players.

You don't show up to a MNT camp, have solid performances in training, only to be told "sorry, we won't play you because we need to start player X because he has a foreign passport".

I think if you manage your team like that, you are taking huge risks with the team cohesion and how players will perceive you as a coach.

JH has said he wants to change the culture and identity of the team. I'm not sure this sort  of management would fit that narrative.

[Obinna]

3 minutes ago, aloyol said:

I doubt this sort of management would sit well with the players.

You don't show up to a MNT camp, have solid performances in training, only to be told "sorry, we won't play you because we need to start player X because he has a foreign passport".

I think if you manage your team like that, you are taking huge risks with the team cohesion and how players will perceive you as a coach.

JH has said he wants to change the culture and identity of the team. I'm not sure this sort  of management would fit that narrative.

I'm sure if he's playing it will be based on merit.

[Keegan]

1 hour ago, shamrock said:

It is yet to be determined what is the higher level football, Toptier youth football vs second tier Norway...I don't remember you saying this about Millar, what has he done that warrants a cap besides youth footy?

But Busti doesn’t play top tier youth football?  He isn’t even making the bench for the youth team.  Millar was producing and earning the praise of the first team manager and a Liverpool legend.  Can Busti say the same?  Does the first team manager even know who he is? 

If he’s the best keeper in camp, play him but if Pantemis is better I’d hate to see a cap handed out for simply being at Juventus.  And I’m sorry to burst peoples bubble but playing 2nd tier Norway is better level for international football than youth football. 

Remember Josh Doughty?  Two years ago he was playing for Manchester United at probably a similar level to Busti ie never going to make the first team and only made the odd appearance but no one was clamouring for him to be cap tied.. where is he now? 

Do we even know that Busti is better than our other youth keeper in Italy?  Just because he’s at Juventus.  Desjardins is the same age and sits on the bench in serie B, just like Stillo who also sat on the bench in serie A.. so why weren’t they cap tied? 

Basically all anyone can say is that he should be capped because he’s at Juventus and that’s wrong. We have a lot more to offer him than he does to us at this point imo. 

Edited October 15, 2018 by Keegan

[Blackjack15]

I’m all for Alessandro Busti and think he’s a great addition to our U20’s and could be important down the road for the the senior side should he’s break into first team football in italy/Europe 

But I’d be lying to you if I didn’t question how good is he really? 

Like it was said earlier for the U19 Primavera squad he played 5 games last season and now for the U23’s he’s 3rd stringer and just making the bench

To be very fair with him he is only 18 years old and he’s always played a category up from his age which seems promising

I think he seems game action, Juventus is a huge environment to be in and I welcome him with open arms

He has potential no doubt, question is how much of that can turn into a stable career in football

Edited October 15, 2018 by Thomas

[aloyol]

3 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I'm sure if he's playing it will be based on merit.

I don't doubt JH on this. I'm sure players will earn their playing time on merit.

[Califax]

12 minutes ago, Keegan said:

Basically all anyone can say is that he should be capped because he’s at Juventus and that’s wrong. 

I think anyone calling him to be capped is doing so because he is an 18 year old brought to a camp in the middle of a non-friendly international window who has dual nationality and is excited to play for us.

Juventus be damned. 

 

Edited October 15, 2018 by Califax

[Keegan]

2 minutes ago, Califax said:

I think anyone calling him to be capped is doing so because he is an 18 year old brought to a camp in the middle of a non-friendly international window who has dual nationality and is exciting to play for us.

Juventus be damned. 

 

Well if that’s the bar then there are literally thousands of kids we need to play.  18, non-friendly, dual international and excited to play for Canada.  Damn, wish I knew at 18! 

?

Edited October 15, 2018 by Keegan

[Califax]

Just now, Keegan said:

Well if that’s the bar then there are literally thousands of kids we need to play.  18, non-friendly, dual international and excited to play for Canada.  Damn, wish I knew at 18! 

?

Rest assured, if someone thought enough of you to bring you to camp, and if I had a DeLorean with a flux capacitor,  I'd cap tie you.

 

 

[Keegan]

Don’t get me wrong it’s awesome to have a guy from Juventus on our roster, it’s cool but at the same time when you put u23 and people clue in that he doesn’t even play for Juventus youth and we’re selling this new/improved team it’s Mickey Mouse and sort of takes away from the guys who are making impacts at big clubs in their system. 

One thing I will say, he’s going to have a nice resume if he gets a cap.  Former Juventus keeper who will (guessing here) be the youngest Canadian keeper ever. Even if he’s a flop that looks good on paper for him. 

 

[apbsmith]

2 hours ago, Obinna said:

 

I wonder where either would rank in the Juve depth chart?

Excellent point. Thomas - Crepeau - Busti. 

 

 

 

Edited October 15, 2018 by apbsmith

[jpg75]

Busti doesn't play for the Primavera team because he would be behind Italian youth keeper Leonardo Loria. He has been moved up to the Reserves to train with older players until likely next season when Loria will be too old for Primavera and Busti will get his chance as #1 with the youth team.

Axel Desjardin played 15 matches for Spezia Primavera last season in the 2A division (2nd tier) and let in 25 goals. He was replaced for the last 3 games of the season which Spezia won all 3 to qualify for the Primavera play-off with Ascoli. Desjardin played the away leg which Spezia lost 2-1 and forced to remain in 2A this season. He has played once this year and let in 2 goals in a losd. His rival, Francesco Mazzini has let in 2 goals in 3 games (2 wins 1 loss).

[shamrock]

Yeah all we can say about Pantemis is that A. he's Canadian and B. he is a goalkeeper. Seeing that warrants him an invite to camp, I still like to see busti capped. Then let him play for the u20' or u23s or whatever. At age 18, he has a lot of upside. Thomas on the other hand didn't cut it in Norways D1, not the level we should be looking at for a national team. Could end up the be the same for Busti, but could also end up completely differently. Better safe than sorry. 

 

Edited October 15, 2018 by shamrock