Jump to content

Ottawa CPL Club


Recommended Posts

  • Canada Soccer approved the Fury’s application to play in USL for 2019. The club says it has U.S. Soccer’s approval to cross the border and play in an American league, but Canada Soccer says it has yet to receive confirmation of that from the USSF.

That would corroberates CONCACAF statement that they have not received a formal sanction application for the Ottawa Fury.

I'm sorry, but the Ottawa Fury are 100% in the wrong PR-wise. Screaming publicly that they are playing in USL when the paperwork wasn't event filed/processed/submitted makes you really question what the hell is going on in their offices. CONCACAF wasn't wrong in being like "huh...no!" and shutting this down. The Fury actions suggests that they were attempting to push all parties into a corner to pressure them into sanctioning them...(pointing to selling tickets without sanctioning).

Goddamn they are still selling season tickets!!!!

That kind of behaviour also opens the door to them acting this way on a yearly basis to force a renewal which is unacceptable. If they felt so strongly about the legitimacy of their claim, they sure had a funny way to go at it

CONCACAF has lots of arguments to get their ruling upheld (Fury's behaviour certainly doesn't help their case) and I don't see CAS creating a MASSIVE precedent here... which would trigger more requests for cross-border competition within FIFA. Can't see CAS opening a FIFA Pandora box...certainly not over the Ottawa Fury

 
Edited by Ansem
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Happy to hear the appeal is finally moving forward. I think we all expected it to happen, but having it confirmed is good news.

As a big fan of the CPL, and someone who has even cancelled his season seats for the Fury over their decision to remain in the USL over joining the CPL, I have to say that I am dismayed at the reaction of some Voyageurs here, who seem to be openly hoping for the Fury to simply fold and not play at all next year.

We are supposed to be supporters for Canadian soccer and promote whatever is best for the development of the sport across the country. Anyone thinking that the Fury folding will do that is wearing crazy blinders. Another team will pain to return to Ottawa if there is simply no soccer next year. What we should all want is a peaceful transition from USL to CPL.

I'm definitely getting the feeling that some here are putting their dislike of OSEG ahead of the well-being of soccer in Canada, and are ignoring soccer fans in Ottawa, who have been trying to make this work for a while now, even before the words CPL were taken seriously. Frankly, that is disheartening, and many people need to ask themselves why in the world they hope to see no soccer in Ottawa at all next year.

If your reason is that a CPL team will then be able to then sprout out of nowhere, then you obviously know little to nothing about the reality of the sports market in Ottawa, and you care a lot less about soccer in Canada than you give yourself credit for.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Gopherbashi said:

You've got to wonder what permanence the CAS decision will have - if they rule that an exceptional circumstance still exists, how long would that circumstance apply for before being reviewable.

CPL would have to disclose their financial frame. If it's close to USL Championship level, that kills the Fury argument and they will lose in CAS

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Ansem said:
  • Canada Soccer approved the Fury’s application to play in USL for 2019. The club says it has U.S. Soccer’s approval to cross the border and play in an American league, but Canada Soccer says it has yet to receive confirmation of that from the USSF.

That would corroberates CONCACAF statement that they have not received a formal sanction application for the Ottawa Fury.

I'm sorry, but the Ottawa Fury are 100% in the wrong PR-wise. Screaming publicly that they are playing in USL when the paperwork wasn't event filed/processed/submitted makes you really question what the hell is going on in their offices. CONCACAF wasn't wrong in being like "huh...no!" and shutting this down The Fury actions suggests that they were attempting to push all parties into a corner to pressure them into sanctioning them...(pointing to selling tickets without sanctioning).

Goddamn they are still selling season tickets!!!!

That kind of behaviour also opens the door to them acting this way on a yearly basis to force a renewal which is unacceptable. If they felt so strongly about the legitimacy of their claim, they sure had a funny way to go at it

CONCACAF has lots of arguments to get their ruling upheld (Fury's behaviour certainly doesn't help their case) and I don't see CAS creating a MASSIVE precedent here... which would trigger more requests for cross-border competition within FIFA. Can't see CAS opening a FIFA Pandora box.

 

They have already stated that, should they not play in the USL, they will refund any tickets sold.

You're trying to make this into a scandal that isn't. Every year, they get a one-year exemption. Are you saying the Fury should never sell any tickets until the following New Year? Because that's obviously at least how long it takes to renew the exemptions. Should season-ticket holders, hoping to renew the season tickets, be told "No you can't. But check with us in February! Fingers crossed!! :D "

Or maybe they shouldn't be allowed to sign contracts every until the New Year. This is ridiculous.

You hate OSEG. Ok. Fantastic. Congratulations. Move-on. You're starting to turn into the "Isn't the USA the worst at all things" guy that I chose to ignore a while ago.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

35 minutes ago, Sébastien said:

Anyone thinking that the Fury folding will do that is wearing crazy blinders. Another team will pain to return to Ottawa if there is simply no soccer next year. What we should all want is a peaceful transition from USL to CPL.

The Fury doesn't want that, so collectively wishing and praying for it to happen won't make it happen. So we have to move on and talk about the "future"

35 minutes ago, Sébastien said:

I'm definitely getting the feeling that some here are putting their dislike of OSEG ahead of the well-being of soccer in Canada, and are ignoring soccer fans in Ottawa, who have been trying to make this work for a while now, even before the words CPL were taken seriously. Frankly, that is disheartening, and many people need to ask themselves why in the world they hope to see no soccer in Ottawa at all next year.

How about you try it the other way around. OSEG actions isn't helping Canadian soccer "today" nor their fans.

35 minutes ago, Sébastien said:

If your reason is that a CPL team will then be able to then sprout out of nowhere, then you obviously know little to nothing about the reality of the sports market in Ottawa, and you care a lot less about soccer in Canada than you give yourself credit for.

CPL wanted the Fury and were willing to accommodate them. Saying no is fine, but "HOW" they said no is why they aren't getting sympathy here. Blindsiding potential partners while slandering the league is unacceptable and unnecessary, at least you could recognize as much. Not providing a firm timeline for a definitive decision is their prerogative, but you can't be shocked if people and the league are looking at post Fury in Ottawa as a result

 

Edited by Ansem
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Ansem said:

The Fury doesn't want that, so collectively wishing and praying for it to happen won't make it happen. So we have to move on and talk about the "future"

How about you try it the other way around. OSEG actions isn't helping Canadian soccer nor their fans.

CPL wanted the Fury and were willing to accommodate them. Saying no is fine, but "HOW" they said no is why they aren't getting sympathy here. Blindsiding potential partners while slandering the league is unacceptable and unnecessary, at least you could recognize as much. Not providing a firm timeline for a definitive decision is their prerogative, but you can't be shocked if people and the league are looking at post Fury in Ottawa as a result

 

Feel free to dislike OSEG. Hell, I do. But they put up cash and had a professional soccer team playing in Canada before the CPL existed.

They did more to support soccer in Canada in the last decade than most people on this board have, including you and me. And currently, logic like yours is nothing but detrimental to the future of the game in Ottawa.

 

You keep saying look to the future, and yet are the one who keeps bringing up past allegations. Obsessively. We know your point of view. Thank you for it. Now you can be constructive about it or go all bringbacktheblizzard like you are currently.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, Sébastien said:

You hate OSEG. Ok. Fantastic. Congratulations. Move-on. You're starting to turn into the "Isn't the USA the worst at all things" guy that I chose to ignore a while ago. 

I hate the way they behaved publicly. Hating them implies that I know them personally or that they've hurt me personally, which they haven't.

I have no clus what you mean about the USA comment, but RESULTS MATTERS! If you don't perform at your job, your boss won't like you. If you buy a product or service that doesn't deliver, you won't appreciate it. If you make a deal and it doesn't turn out to your benefit, you will seek alternatives.

Results man, results: How many Gold Cup have we won since 2000? How many U20 World Cup have we qualified for during the MLS era? How many time have we made the Hex since 1998? 0

I look at results just like the CSA under Montagliani did. I didn't wake up one morning hating the USA, but I looked at the results when we over rely on their pyramid and results speaks for itself.

That's where I'm coming from. So you're insult isn't appreciated

 

Edited by Ansem
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Sébastien said:

Feel free to dislike OSEG.

See post above

 

3 minutes ago, Sébastien said:

They did more to support soccer in Canada in the last decade than most people on this board have, including you and me. And currently, logic like yours is nothing but detrimental to the future of the game in Ottawa. 

We are all grateful for their contribution but you are leaving out the results! Has the status quo helped us? How?

I understand your point of view in regards to the future of the game in Ottawa, but many more are sick and tired of missing World Cup, under-performing at the Gold Cup, not participation in U20 World Cup, we even didn't make Copa America. Status quo doesn't work and in my point of view, the national program is more important. We have to change or our results will stay the same

 

4 minutes ago, Sébastien said:

You keep saying look to the future, and yet are the one who keeps bringing up past allegations. Obsessively. We know your point of view. Thank you for it. Now you can be constructive about it or go all bringbacktheblizzard like you are currently.

I talk plenty of future, you just don't like that I'm talking a future without the Fury and that's fine

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Ansem said:

That's not a "fast" court... They are out of USL 2019 I think

My only point of reference is the Paolo Guerrero doping case this past year.  This is a case where there was immediate pressure on FIFA and the CAS for a quick resolution given that Guerrero's positive sample was immediately retested (at a Canadian lab) and the alleged banned substance found in the sample originally alleged to be cocaine was chemically proven to not be from cocaine but from coca leaf tea. 

Nov, 3, 2017: Guerrero provisionally suspended by FIFA for testing positive

Dec 7, 2017: FIFA Disciplinary Committee suspends Guerrero for 1 year

Dec 20, 2017: FIFA Appeal Committee reduces suspension to 6 months (this decision was immediately appealed to the CAS by the World Anti Doping Agency)

May 14, 2018: CAS imposes 14 month ban

If the captain of a World Cup bound team could not get a hearing at the CAS for 5 months, I don't see how the Ottawa Fury have any chance to be heard prior to the USL season starting.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Sébastien said:

Happy to hear the appeal is finally moving forward. I think we all expected it to happen, but having it confirmed is good news.

As a big fan of the CPL, and someone who has even cancelled his season seats for the Fury over their decision to remain in the USL over joining the CPL, I have to say that I am dismayed at the reaction of some Voyageurs here, who seem to be openly hoping for the Fury to simply fold and not play at all next year.

Aside from a couple of outliers, almost no one is "openly hoping for the Fury to simply fold and not play at all next year".  Most people seem to be hoping for an outcome that advance the interests of CPL - either via the Fury participating or via another team moving into what will be an open market.  That isn't being petty about the Fury's decision,  it is being strategic about Ottawa's important  role in the future CPL.

1 hour ago, Sébastien said:

We are supposed to be supporters for Canadian soccer and promote whatever is best for the development of the sport across the country. Anyone thinking that the Fury folding will do that is wearing crazy blinders. Another team will pain to return to Ottawa if there is simply no soccer next year. What we should all want is a peaceful transition from USL to CPL.

I have not read a single post that is arguing for anything but the bolded.  The only difference is what people seem to think serves that long term interest best.  For some, it is the Fury continuing on however they choose ion whatever league they choose.  For some, it is Fury in CPL.  And for some it is a new team (that is not openly hostile to CPL) joining the league once the market has been opened up.  It is disingenuous to pretend that people are trying to salt the earth on this topic.  The reality is that for many people, the 2019 soccer season in Ottawa is far less important than the future of CPL, which would be greatly assisted by participation of an Ottawa team.

 

1 hour ago, Sébastien said:

If your reason is that a CPL team will then be able to then sprout out of nowhere, then you obviously know little to nothing about the reality of the sports market in Ottawa, and you care a lot less about soccer in Canada than you give yourself credit for.

Given the other markets where CPL is taking hold, including smaller markets like Halifax, and GTA markets where teams will be in TFC's shadow for a while, I think you are just as guilty of wearing blinders.  Of course it would be a challenge for another group to start a CPL team is the Fury folded, but it isn't impossible.  OESG has demonstrated that soccer can be sustained in that city, and that was while participating in two American leagues.  In something like CPL where interest  is growing and things are materializing,the formation of another team is quite viable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think there’s near unanimous agreement that a best case scenario would be a Ottawa playing this season either:

 a) in the CanPL or

b) in USL with a hard cutover date to CanPL in 2019

c) In L1O as a last resort

But clearly CONCACAF is not going to let them play in any league they chose outside of Canada.  Its just not going to happen.

For the CanPL perspective they need to have a team in the Ottawa market and if the Fury don’t have a concrete timeframe to move or if they salt the earth, they will probably get another ownership group. 

Hopefully the Fury will come around and not chose to fold or sit out 2019.  That would be the worst case scenario.

Edited by baulderdash77
Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, Ansem said:

There's a possibility that the CAS might not even hear the Fury's complain

 

 

Idk if it’s almost certain to fail since that’s a Belgian decision - there’s no telling how a Canadian court would react.  The Belgian CoA ruled on the invalidity of the arbitration clause for being overly broad - not necessarily that the CAS doesn’t have the final say. 

We would have to see what the clause that enables the CAS says exactly. 

Edited by Keegan
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Keegan said:

Idk if it’s almost certain to fail since that’s a Belgian decision - there’s no telling how a Canadian court would react.  The Belgian CoA ruled on the invalidity of the arbitration clause for being overly broad - not necessarily that the CAS doesn’t have the final say. 

We would have to see what the clause that enables the CAS says exactly. 

He was corrected:

 

  And Ottawa seeking an injunction for the 2019 season

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree with Steven Bank up to the point where he makes a massive assumption on the merits of the case.  The truth is none of us know the facts here and whether Ottawa contributed to the loss at all.  If it comes out that Ottawa’s own delay contributed to their need for an injunction then it’s going to be an uphill battle for them. I.e. If they were aware in September/October of this possibility and waited until December 18 they may be in trouble - although even that is too early to say since it will come down to what they were obliged to do and their omissions.

edit: the irreparable harm standard will be an interesting argument.  Ottawa will have to prove that being forced to play in the CPL would cause irreparable harm, which may cause a lot of hurt feelings.  How should they structure that?  CONCACAF will likely have CPL testimony saying that players can keep their salaries.. so Ottawa will have to revert to another strategy.  The playing level argument will be really tough for Ottawa to win against a governing body and even if they did, not sure any difference would amount to irreparable harm. 

Edited by Keegan
Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, Keegan said:

I agree with Steven Bank up to the point where he makes a massive assumption on the merits of the case.  The truth is none of us know the facts here and whether Ottawa contributed to the loss at all.  If it comes out that Ottawa’s own delay contributed to their need for an injunction then it’s going to be an uphill battle for them. I.e. If they were aware in September/October of this possibility and waited until December 18 they may be in trouble - although even that is too early to say since it will come down to what they were obliged to do and their omissions.

edit: the irreparable harm standard will be an interesting argument.  Ottawa will have to prove that being forced to play in the CPL would cause irreparable harm, which may cause a lot of hurt feelings.  How should they structure that?  CONCACAF will likely have CPL testimony saying that players can keep their salaries.. so Ottawa will have to revert to another strategy.  The playing level argument will be really tough for Ottawa to win against a governing body and even if they did, not sure any difference would amount to irreparable harm. 

So according to the tweet, they not only have to establish "irreparable harm" (which will be a challenge as you say), but they also have to show how that outweighs CONCACAF's/FIFA's interest in enforcing rules designed to strengthen domestic leagues.   That sounds like some tough sleddin'.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Don't think Ottawa delayed on anything. Think things have been following their normal course. Sanctioning has been a formality in previous years and very much a rubber stamp process.

The approval of the sanctioning was a formality, but procedures must have been followed regardless I assume.* & **

*I always get my tax cheque but I still have to fill it...no?

**Getting paid is a formality but I still have to submit a timesheet in a timely manner?

 

Something's definitely off here as CONCACAF has received nothing while the CSA either awaits USSF papers or received it recently.

Pushing the paperwork would have been energy better spent then going on a media rampage which could have burn bridges with CONCACAF and CPL

Edited by Ansem
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Ansem said:

That's not a "fast" court... They are out of USL 2019 I think

Usually a case being before the CAS could give you a  window, there may even be provision for a temporary injunction delaying the decision. 

My personal opinion is that Fury have a case, and a fairly strong one, to play in USL next season. They openly stated their choice. They committed financially. They apparently did request sanctioning from two national governing bodies and got it. The CONCACAF decision puts them in a situation of not being able to defend themselves, it is short notice, and there was not a clear series of warnings that signalled that it could happen. I think that legally CONCACAF has a lot to lose here. I perfectly understand that Fury may feel they have a solid legal case, and especially before a board of arbitration not impressed by internal FIFA logic. 

It also should be remembered that the CAS being in Switzerland puts specific pressure on FIFA, I am not entirely sure how this works, but I seem to recall cases where the common legal system did put an extra bit of pressure on FIFA.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Gopherbashi said:

I don't think they'll have to.

Whatever their reasons are, if the Fury are fighting this hard (furiously?) to stay out of the CPL, I feel like they'd rather shut down instead.

If that's the case, the Fury clearly weren't concerned about the CPL's salary figures being low. I always found that argument bull shit from the so called information leaks regarding them not wanting to join.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"They apparently did request sanctioning from two national governing bodies and got it. The CONCACAF decision puts them in a situation of not being able to defend themselves, it is short notice, and there was not a clear series of warnings that signalled that it could happen"

From:  https://www.concacaf.com/en/article/concacaf-statement-12-13

  • In the fall of 2018, after unilateral public statements made by Ottawa Fury and before any sanctioning application was made to any governing body, Concacaf clearly advised the Canadian Soccer Association (CSA) of its concerns regarding this matter. A further written correspondence to the CSA followed in November, providing guidance on our view that as it stands to date, we do not see exceptional circumstances, given the launch of the Canadian Premier League (CPL) for the 2019 season. 

Given an OSEG partner is on the CSA board, they would have to be legendarily dysfunctional for this information not to have been with the club in seconds. And the legal action would be against the CSA and not CONCACAF.

Edited by Vic
.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...