Ottawa CPL Club

[RS]

4 hours ago, Ansem said:

• Canada Soccer approved the Fury’s application to play in USL for 2019. The club says it has U.S. Soccer’s approval to cross the border and play in an American league, but Canada Soccer says it has yet to receive confirmation of that from the USSF.

That would corroberates CONCACAF statement that they have not received a formal sanction application for the Ottawa Fury.

I'm sorry, but the Ottawa Fury are 100% in the wrong PR-wise. Screaming publicly that they are playing in USL when the paperwork wasn't event filed/processed/submitted makes you really question what the hell is going on in their offices. CONCACAF wasn't wrong in being like "huh...no!" and shutting this down. The Fury actions suggests that they were attempting to push all parties into a corner to pressure them into sanctioning them...(pointing to selling tickets without sanctioning).

Goddamn they are still selling season tickets!!!!

That kind of behaviour also opens the door to them acting this way on a yearly basis to force a renewal which is unacceptable. If they felt so strongly about the legitimacy of their claim, they sure had a funny way to go at it

CONCACAF has lots of arguments to get their ruling upheld (Fury's behaviour certainly doesn't help their case) and I don't see CAS creating a MASSIVE precedent here... which would trigger more requests for cross-border competition within FIFA. Can't see CAS opening a FIFA Pandora box...certainly not over the Ottawa Fury

 

It isn't all that out of the ordinary to proceed with business as usual before sanctioning is formally approved.

USL League One was just ratified as a Div. 3 league by the USSF this week, but the USL came out with their schedule back on Dec. 10. This kind of stuff is the norm.

[SpursFlu]

MLSE and MLS paying the legal bills? Gotta keep up that proxy war

[Macksam]

2 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

MLSE and MLS paying the legal bills? Gotta keep up that proxy war

Is that actually the case? 

[SpursFlu]

Ottawa Proxy FC

[Cheeta]

19 minutes ago, RS said:

It isn't all that out of the ordinary to proceed with business as usual before sanctioning is formally approved.

USL League One was just ratified as a Div. 3 league by the USSF this week, but the USL came out with their schedule back on Dec. 10. This kind of stuff is the norm.

True, across multiple industries, until business as usual isn't business as usual anymore.  Like after the warnings came down the pipe from knowledgeable sources about changes coming within that industry.

Then you're left scrambling for solutions to a problem that should have been solved before it became a problem and getting told so in no uncertain terms by your betters.

Great fun.  Wonderful meetings to have.  And I'm sure those involved with all this over at OSEG are having their fair share of them.

[RS]

1 minute ago, Cheeta said:

True, across multiple industries, until business as usual isn't business as usual anymore.  Like after the warnings came down the pipe from knowledgeable sources about changes coming within that industry.

Then you're left scrambling for solutions to a problem that should have been solved before it became a problem and getting told so in no uncertain terms by your betters.

Great fun.  Wonderful meetings to have.  And I'm sure those involved with all this over at OSEG are having their fair share of them.

When even Canada Soccer is surprised by the warnings, I have to wonder how much stock was put into them.

But whatever, this is the situation as it stands. Hopefully things can be resolved and the Fury will take the field in 2019.

[Unnamed Trialist]

I just hope everyone appreciates that the big news in CPL is not the Ottawa case, but the announcement by Bunbury that we will be hearing about a Montreal area team for the CPL starting in 2020. For me, that is the biggest CPL news in months, and completely outweighs the negativity around Ottawa.

As I had to make a bit of an effort to adjust to the unbalanced schedule we'll see this upcoming season, but have been able to, getting past the Fury debacle, I want to keep moving in that same direction. As it is, we have a season coming up, and some great news on sales from pretty well 6 of 7 teams (Pacific pending), and we will be hearing about a Montreal team in a few weeks, which will be a major incentive for all clubs to hold tight for this year and next. 

As I see it, the real concern when it comes to potential enemies of CPL is what the MLS clubs are doing behind the scenes. I understand they have not been sitting their with their arms crossed, and that all three are worried. I don't know who suggested it to me now, but I even heard certain MLS clubs had a hand in keeping CPL out of their immediate turf in the lead up period. I think as many of us are fans of both leagues, and both MLS and now CPL clubs, we might have to be contributing to the cause by convincing the MLS clubs to back off a bit and restrain from biting. 

[Ansem]

4 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I just hope everyone appreciates that the big news in CPL is not the Ottawa case, but the announcement by Bunbury that we will be hearing about a Montreal area team for the CPL starting in 2020. For me, that is the biggest CPL news in months, and completely outweighs the negativity around Ottawa.

As I had to make a bit of an effort to adjust to the unbalanced schedule we'll see this upcoming season, but have been able to, getting past the Fury debacle, I want to keep moving in that same direction. As it is, we have a season coming up, and some great news on sales from pretty well 6 of 7 teams (Pacific pending), and we will be hearing about a Montreal team in a few weeks, which will be a major incentive for all clubs to hold tight for this year and next. 

As I see it, the real concern when it comes to potential enemies of CPL is what the MLS clubs are doing behind the scenes. I understand they have not been sitting their with their arms crossed, and that all three are worried. I don't know who suggested it to me now, but I even heard certain MLS clubs had a hand in keeping CPL out of their immediate turf in the lead up period. I think as many of us are fans of both leagues, and both MLS and now CPL clubs, we might have to be contributing to the cause by convincing the MLS clubs to back off a bit and restrain from biting. 

buying is voting. Ultimately fans can enable changes.

Not saying that MLS fans should abandon MLS for CPL, but support both. If you can't, watch one and go see it live with the other team.

[Keegan]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Usually a case being before the CAS could give you a  window, there may even be provision for a temporary injunction delaying the decision. 

My personal opinion is that Fury have a case, and a fairly strong one, to play in USL next season. They openly stated their choice. They committed financially. They apparently did request sanctioning from two national governing bodies and got it. The CONCACAF decision puts them in a situation of not being able to defend themselves, it is short notice, and there was not a clear series of warnings that signalled that it could happen. I think that legally CONCACAF has a lot to lose here. I perfectly understand that Fury may feel they have a solid legal case, and especially before a board of arbitration not impressed by internal FIFA logic. 

It also should be remembered that the CAS being in Switzerland puts specific pressure on FIFA, I am not entirely sure how this works, but I seem to recall cases where the common legal system did put an extra bit of pressure on FIFA.

These points in my mind are irrelevant as the situation represents the following example:

You are sub letting an apartment from your buddy Bob, who leases the building from Victor.  You tell Bob you want to stay for another year when the sublease expires this year - he agrees but he still needs approval from Victor (as the lease calls for).  You go ahead and buy some new furniture etc. anticipating you’ll be there.  Victor comes 3 weeks before expiration and says “my uncle is moving in to the apartment so either you need to room together in the new sublease or you move out”.  

That in my mind is parallel to the situation the Fury find themselves in. Now in that example the facts are heavily stacked against you - Victor has done nothing wrong.. it’s his property and he can do as he sees fit so long as he’s acting within the lease.  Maybe you have a claim against Bob if he omitted to do an act that caused you to lose the lease... but it’s likely moot because Victor was going to have his uncle move in whether Bob followed procedure or not. Also, we’re told Bob signed a new sublease with you but Victor said no.. so not Bob’s fault?

So the question is: did Bob/the CSA do or omit to do something that caused Ottawa to have no other option than to play in the CPL?  And as a follow up, did Ottawa fail to do anything to mitigate their loss?  

It’s unsolvable based on what we know - you can plug in a set of facts and rule but it won’t do you any good.  One thing is for sure in my mind - CONCACAF is pretty much blameless as they’ve simply followed their own laws and supposedly have been open for months now.  

Edited December 19, 2018 by Keegan

[Ansem]

4 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I just hope everyone appreciates that the big news in CPL is not the Ottawa case, but the announcement by Bunbury that we will be hearing about a Montreal area team for the CPL starting in 2020. For me, that is the biggest CPL news in months, and completely outweighs the negativity around Ottawa.

As I had to make a bit of an effort to adjust to the unbalanced schedule we'll see this upcoming season, but have been able to, getting past the Fury debacle, I want to keep moving in that same direction. As it is, we have a season coming up, and some great news on sales from pretty well 6 of 7 teams (Pacific pending), and we will be hearing about a Montreal team in a few weeks, which will be a major incentive for all clubs to hold tight for this year and next. 

As I see it, the real concern when it comes to potential enemies of CPL is what the MLS clubs are doing behind the scenes. I understand they have not been sitting their with their arms crossed, and that all three are worried. I don't know who suggested it to me now, but I even heard certain MLS clubs had a hand in keeping CPL out of their immediate turf in the lead up period. I think as many of us are fans of both leagues, and both MLS and now CPL clubs, we might have to be contributing to the cause by convincing the MLS clubs to back off a bit and restrain from biting. 

buying is voting. Ultimately fans can enable changes.

Not saying that MLS fans should abandon MLS for CPL, but support both. If you can't, watch one and go see it live with the other team.

[Ansem]

Lots of land just became available in Ottawa

The NCC remains committed to redeveloping LeBreton Flats to the highest standards of design, accessibility, sustainability and connectivity.

The NCC Board of Directors has resolved to terminate the preferred proponent term sheet, which was signed January 19, 2018, between Rendez-Vous LeBreton Group (RLG) and the NCC. Termination is effective 30 days following the issuance of the notice to this effect

The Board of Directors’ is seized with the future of LeBreton Flats, and it is making sure that it is in a position to move quickly to maintain momentum on this important project. The termination of the term sheet will allow the NCC to proceed with the next steps in the redevelopment process at its next public Board meeting in January. This is also consistent with the commitment made at the NCC’s last public Board meeting in November.

Edited December 19, 2018 by Ansem

[JamboAl]

1 hour ago, Ansem said:

Lots of land just became available in Ottawa

The NCC remains committed to redeveloping LeBreton Flats to the highest standards of design, accessibility, sustainability and connectivity.

The NCC Board of Directors has resolved to terminate the preferred proponent term sheet, which was signed January 19, 2018, between Rendez-Vous LeBreton Group (RLG) and the NCC. Termination is effective 30 days following the issuance of the notice to this effect

The Board of Directors’ is seized with the future of LeBreton Flats, and it is making sure that it is in a position to move quickly to maintain momentum on this important project. The termination of the term sheet will allow the NCC to proceed with the next steps in the redevelopment process at its next public Board meeting in January. This is also consistent with the commitment made at the NCC’s last public Board meeting in November.

The NCC is not going to allow an outdoor stadium at Lebreton Flats when there is already one at Lansdowne - unless someone is deluded enough to build a 20,000 seat soccer specific stadium (for MLS purposes).  It’s either an arena or it’s going to be more retail/outdoor green space.

[BrennanFan]

Interesting quote here from Goudie re. lack of CSA communication:

http://apt613.ca/ottawa-sports-entertainment-group-astounded-by-conca-gaffe/

On Thursday, when Concacaf made the rare move of releasing their own statement in response to the OSEG release, they say they expressed concerns to Canada Soccer twice, in September and in November, regarding Fury FC’s involvement in the USL for 2019. Since teams don’t communicate directly with Concacaf, it was up to Canada Soccer to relay the message. Fury FC executives claim they never got word, explaining why this week’s news was so shocking to the club.

“The only information that has been relayed to us was on Monday, when this whole debacle started. What [Canada Soccer] got before that and when they got is a question for [Canada Soccer]. They don’t send us any correspondence they get from Concacaf, they deal with it how they choose to, but they wouldn’t and they won’t send us copies of that stuff.”

“We have [asked Canada Soccer for copies] and they haven’t provided us with the Concacaf letter.”

 

 

Edited December 20, 2018 by BrennanFan

[C2SKI]

41 minutes ago, BrennanFan said:

Interesting quote here from Goudie re. lack of CSA communication:

http://apt613.ca/ottawa-sports-entertainment-group-astounded-by-conca-gaffe/

On Thursday, when Concacaf made the rare move of releasing their own statement in response to the OSEG release, they say they expressed concerns to Canada Soccer twice, in September and in November, regarding Fury FC’s involvement in the USL for 2019. Since teams don’t communicate directly with Concacaf, it was up to Canada Soccer to relay the message. Fury FC executives claim they never got word, explaining why this week’s news was so shocking to the club.

“The only information that has been relayed to us was on Monday, when this whole debacle started. What [Canada Soccer] got before that and when they got is a question for [Canada Soccer]. They don’t send us any correspondence they get from Concacaf, they deal with it how they choose to, but they wouldn’t and they won’t send us copies of that stuff.”

“We have [asked Canada Soccer for copies] and they haven’t provided us with the Concacaf letter.”

 

 

The president of the Fury is on the Board of Directors of the CSA. That seems implausible.

[CDNFootballer]

45 minutes ago, BrennanFan said:

Interesting quote here from Goudie re. lack of CSA communication:

http://apt613.ca/ottawa-sports-entertainment-group-astounded-by-conca-gaffe/

On Thursday, when Concacaf made the rare move of releasing their own statement in response to the OSEG release, they say they expressed concerns to Canada Soccer twice, in September and in November, regarding Fury FC’s involvement in the USL for 2019. Since teams don’t communicate directly with Concacaf, it was up to Canada Soccer to relay the message. Fury FC executives claim they never got word, explaining why this week’s news was so shocking to the club.

“The only information that has been relayed to us was on Monday, when this whole debacle started. What [Canada Soccer] got before that and when they got is a question for [Canada Soccer]. They don’t send us any correspondence they get from Concacaf, they deal with it how they choose to, but they wouldn’t and they won’t send us copies of that stuff.”

“We have [asked Canada Soccer for copies] and they haven’t provided us with the Concacaf letter.”

 

 

More Fury spin, they knew they were expected to join CPL once it came to be. Goudie is full of BS.

[Gopherbashi]

Ultimately, whether or not the CSA told the Fury about Concacaf's "concerns" is irrelevant to Concacaf's decision to desanction the Fury, considering:

1. Expressed by Concacaf were concerns, not a final decision, 

2. There was no formal sanctioning application submitted for Concacaf to give a formal response to,

3. The Fury being aware of Concacaf's concerns wouldn't change Concacaf's decision,

4. The Fury being aware of Concacaf's concerns doesn't seem to be changing their course of action, since their current thought process seems to still be "USL or bust",

5. The CSA isn't under an obligation to lobby Concacaf to adopt a certain position, especially because the CSA was already on the record as being ok with it.

 

I say this as someone who thinks that the CSA *should* have told the Fury about Concacaf's concerns, but who also thinks they didn't have an obligation to.  It's also irrelevant to Concacaf's final decision.

How I imagine things happened:

Concacaf: "Hey, we have concerns about this Fury thing."

CSA: "Well we're cool with it for the time being so let us know when you make a decision."

Concacaf: *waits for mail*

Edited December 20, 2018 by Gopherbashi

[Kent]

27 minutes ago, C2SKI said:

The president of the Fury is on the Board of Directors of the CSA. That seems implausible.

To play devils advocate for a moment, I’m sure CONCACAF isn’t sending all their communications to a CSA All email distribution list. It’s possible that Pugh wasn’t the one that was spoken to. And it’s less likely but still possible that nobody mentioned it to him, or at least with a paper trail that can be proven.

[Gopherbashi]

1 hour ago, BrennanFan said:

Interesting quote here from Goudie re. lack of CSA communication:

http://apt613.ca/ottawa-sports-entertainment-group-astounded-by-conca-gaffe/

So, essentially, the entire delay in Concacaf's desanctioning decision was because the USSF didn't give a shit about a Canadian team and dragged their feet on this one.

Colour me surprised.

[RS]

2 minutes ago, Gopherbashi said:

So, essentially, the entire delay in Concacaf's desanctioning decision was because the USSF didn't give a shit about a Canadian team and dragged their feet on this one.

Colour me surprised.

I think the USSF did all of its sanctioning for 2019 this week. As I mentioned upthread, USL League One was only ratified as the official USSF Div. 3 a couple days ago.

[Kent]

7 minutes ago, RS said:

I think the USSF did all of its sanctioning for 2019 this week. As I mentioned upthread, USL League One was only ratified as the official USSF Div. 3 a couple days ago.

Thanks for this. Plenty of comments have been flying around about how late Ottawa applied, or how long it took for sanctioning decisions, and none of these comments were said with any context, only assumptions.

[Gopherbashi]

17 minutes ago, Kent said:

Thanks for this. Plenty of comments have been flying around about how late Ottawa applied, or how long it took for sanctioning decisions, and none of these comments were said with any context, only assumptions.

Any idea how Concacaf makes it's decision?  Is there some kind of committee or is it just a rubber stamp on Vic's desk?

[Kent]

3 minutes ago, Gopherbashi said:

Any idea how Concacaf makes it's decision?  Is there some kind of committee or is it just a rubber stamp on Vic's desk?

No clue. And to be clear, I haven’t had context for the timing of these processes either. Things like saying it’s irresponsible for them to be selling tickets before getting sanctioning had me wondering if MLS teams were getting their sanctioning any earlier.

[Gopherbashi]

21 minutes ago, Kent said:

No clue. And to be clear, I haven’t had context for the timing of these processes either. Things like saying it’s irresponsible for them to be selling tickets before getting sanctioning had me wondering if MLS teams were getting their sanctioning any earlier.

Likely not, and I honestly don't fault the Fury for selling tickets considering they had no indication that there'd be any problem.

[masster]

Article from Ottawa says this may be a ploy by CONCACAF so the CPL can sign Ottawa's best Canadian players.
https://winnipegsun.com/sports/soccer/mls/ottawa-fury-fc/is-concacaf-playing-its-own-games-with-the-intention-of-crippling-fury-fc/wcm/c419d5c4-9dab-46e3-99ec-0d59ed85cfb5

Wow...the leaks coming from the Fury FO seem desperate.

[Ansem]

2 hours ago, masster said:

Article from Ottawa says this may be a ploy by CONCACAF so the CPL can sign Ottawa's best Canadian players.
https://winnipegsun.com/sports/soccer/mls/ottawa-fury-fc/is-concacaf-playing-its-own-games-with-the-intention-of-crippling-fury-fc/wcm/c419d5c4-9dab-46e3-99ec-0d59ed85cfb5

Wow...the leaks coming from the Fury FO seem desperate.

Keep burning them bridges... I guess.

This is business... there's nothing cute or nice about it.

Edited December 20, 2018 by Ansem