Noble Okello

[toontownman]

9 hours ago, El Hombre said:

How much longer are we going to be trotting this one out?

I think until the gap of the quality of youngsters we are producing meets the standard necessary to force minutes. Which is a game of moving goal posts as the league develops just as much as the quality of our youth players. The gap will eventually close by imo the majority of players aren't good enough yet in comparison to your regular MLS starter.

It is chicken and egg with young players who need minutes to develop and shoe they are capable. I know I have trotted it out here before about how the pressures of a results driven and instant gratification culture of top league clubs stop the development from happening. Because at the end of the day how many managers are told by their board to grow your own players and more importantly get supported in playing them when results are going the wrong way. 

It's where CPL is so potentially huge. Not just on player development but potentially engaging fans that are fast losing interest in faceless club's run by billionaires with no interest in the area, history, community and developing those things. I look at man city where despite winning against Newcastle earlier in the season were outsung throughout the game by the visiting fans the entire game. Not because the Newcastle Fans are regularly loud but because they are bored of winning so easily and don't even care to sing.

I think with the MLS it takes incentive or requirements to develop younger players which is totally backwards as it should be a priority anyway. I don't see them going that way though due to the money involved. Unfortunate for the Canadian MLS club's and potentially the US program but a bonus for Canada if the CPL succeeds! 

[1996]

Like I said give it time and we will see players being produced by the three MLS academies these things take time like I said, remember these 3 MLS academies are not pay to play if your good enough you are selected which is another good thing about these academies. Moreover, remember a very small percentage of academy players in any pro organization around the world actually make it to the first team or even go on to play high level soccer. 

[Dub Narcotic]

The premise is wrong from the start, the academies are already productive. In the last few years alone Vancouver has produced at least ten players whom are playing at levels that are good enough for national team call-ups. Y

[Vince193]

10 minutes ago, Dub Narcotic said:

The premise is wrong from the start, the academies are already productive. In the last few years alone Vancouver has produced at least ten players whom are playing at levels that are good enough for national team call-ups. Y

I feel that Vancouver should replace the word "graduate" that they often like to trot out for all their former academy players with "Wasn't good enough/ didn't get a chance with the first team" because that's basically what they were.

[jpg75]

39 minutes ago, Dub Narcotic said:

In the last few years alone Vancouver has produced at least ten players whom are playing at levels that are good enough for national team call-ups.

Are we talking about the last few years (2-3) or since the Whitecaps academy started in 2007? Because all i can think of recently is Davies, Froese, Bustos and Adekugbe.

[Shortdutchcanuck]

1 hour ago, jpg75 said:

Are we talking about the last few years (2-3) or since the Whitecaps academy started in 2007? Because all i can think of recently is Davies, Froese, Bustos and Adekugbe.

And of those I'd argue Bustos and Froese are still B team callups at present.

[Dub Narcotic]

Dario Zanatta

Marco Bustos

Kianz Froese

Callum Irving

Sam Adekugbe

Ben McKendry

Alphonso Davies

Have all been called for Canada. This is extraordinarily productive. Also not counting guys who are likely to be called at some point like Marco Carducci, Daniel Stanese and David Norman Jr. 

[Vince193]

5 minutes ago, Dub Narcotic said:

Dario Zanatta

Marco Bustos

Kianz Froese

Callum Irving

Sam Adekugbe

Ben McKendry

Alphonso Davies

Have all been called for Canada. This is extraordinarily productive. Also not counting guys who are likely to be called at some point like Marco Carducci, Daniel Stanese and David Norman Jr. 

Stanese has made an appearance for Canada

[xman14]

1 hour ago, Dub Narcotic said:

Dario Zanatta

Marco Bustos

Kianz Froese

Callum Irving

Sam Adekugbe

Ben McKendry

Alphonso Davies

Have all been called for Canada. This is extraordinarily productive. Also not counting guys who are likely to be called at some point like Marco Carducci, Daniel Stanese and David Norman Jr. 

Carducci still has a considerable distance before making it back into camp, let alone getting a cap 

[soccer.shocker]

47 minutes ago, xman14 said:

Carducci still has a considerable distance before making it back into camp, let alone getting a cap 

Agree for sure with this. Doesn't the team McKendry play on in Div 1 Finland have a Canadian as their #1 keeper? Kid from Ottawa I think. I don't know the Scandinavian leagues well, but wouldn't that place him at / above the level of Simon Thomas at present?  Wasn't Thomas also in the VWC academy at one point too? Not sure he was there long enough to be considered a development product.

[jpg75]

3 hours ago, Dub Narcotic said:

Dario Zanatta

Marco Bustos

Kianz Froese

Callum Irving

Sam Adekugbe

Ben McKendry

Alphonso Davies

Have all been called for Canada. This is extraordinarily productive. Also not counting guys who are likely to be called at some point like Marco Carducci, Daniel Stanese and David Norman Jr. 

No offence, but i think using the literal definition of a MNT callup no matter how far the player is down the depth chart is setting the bar really low in the context of this conversation. IMO for an MLS academy to be doing its job the players it produces should eventually become regulars for the team or leave to play at atleast a similar level to MLS. Maybe some of those players you listed will achieve that level, but i wouldn't pat anyone on the back yet from that list except Davies and probably Adekugbe.

[dyslexic nam]

I also wouldn't attribute Davies to the Caps academy.  He developed at FC Ed and had spent relatively little time with the Caps when we were courting him for the Nats.  He also had paperwork issues that delayed things (if I am remembering correctly), and made the jump to the first team pretty quickly.  Since he is the highest profile example on the list, I think we need to be realistic about how much the Caps academy contributed to his development.

[SpursFlu]

Davies wasn't developed with the Caps Academy he was developed with the Caps. Your basically holding it against the Whitecaps that Davies would actually be considered a top level prospect 

 

If we're not going by Canadian standards but world football standards really the only 2 talents anyone has produced are Davies & Tabla

[Dub Narcotic]

This impeccable logic has really convinced me. Unless Bob Lenarduzzi impregnates the mother of a player himself and raises the child in a soccer monastery deep in Tibet then the Whitecaps can never have claimed to have 'developed' anybody.

If your criteria for a club's youth development system succeeding is that its graduates from the last few years constitute the majority of senior internationals for that country than I don't think any professional club in the world would be viewed as a success.

 

[El Hombre]

1 hour ago, SpursFlu said:

If we're not going by Canadian standards but world football standards really the only 2 talents anyone has produced are Davies & Tabla

While I completely disagree with Dub Narcotic's assertion, I think you are undervaluing the fact that guys like Osorio, Morgan and Teibert have become capable MLS players over the years.  I think any of our Caribbean counterparts (Honduras, Jamaica, Costa Rica etc.) would laud players with over 100 appearances in MLS.  Barring the injury history, Henry would've fallen into this category as well.

To me, that is what I hoped for from our academies.  Too many of the players mentioned here have had to go elsewhere for a sniff at playing regularly.

[dyslexic nam]

17 minutes ago, Dub Narcotic said:

This impeccable logic has really convinced me. Unless Bob Lenarduzzi impregnates the mother of a player himself and raises the child in a soccer monastery deep in Tibet then the Whitecaps can never have claimed to have 'developed' anybody.

If your criteria for a club's youth development system succeeding is that its graduates from the last few years constitute the majority of senior internationals for that country than I don't think any professional club in the world would be viewed as a success.

 

Yeah, that's totally what I was saying...

[jpg75]

41 minutes ago, Dub Narcotic said:

This impeccable logic has really convinced me. Unless Bob Lenarduzzi impregnates the mother of a player himself and raises the child in a soccer monastery deep in Tibet then the Whitecaps can never have claimed to have 'developed' anybody.

If your criteria for a club's youth development system succeeding is that its graduates from the last few years constitute the majority of senior internationals for that country than I don't think any professional club in the world would be viewed as a success.

 

The logic applies to every MLS academy, not just the Caps. By that measure the TFC and Impact academies are even worse. TFC seem to have done a better job integrating players who fell through the cracks or late bloomers etc.

[Gian-Luca]

Getting this back on track, is that Okello in the TFC locker room at the 50 second mark of this video?:

 

[BenFisk'sBiggestFan]

Here is my view on MLS academies. The MLS has improved greatly over the past 5-10 years. Guys like Osorio, Edwards, Kaye, and Tiebert are starters now, and would have been starters back then as well. But the league gets better each year, there is no doubt in that. That makes it difficult to graduate players from the academy, because even if the player improves, the league does too.

“Prospects” like Chapman, Hamilton, Shome, Fraiser, Bustos, and Adekugebe are improving. But i think they are improving at a pace that is similar to how the MLS is improving. As a result, even though they are much better than 5 years ago, they still don’t have starting jobs. The same can be said about our guys in the USL, they are improving with the league. 

Leagues in Europe are not improving at the pace that the MLS or USL are. That makes it difficult to compare the academies here to traditional academies. I think the best way we can test the academies, is by the improvement of our national teams. 

As well, I hope that the CPL can offer more playing time for players like Chapman, Hamilton, and such. Hopefully they can improve with the CPL, but by being starters rather than subs. I hope it can fall right in between the MLS and USL levels, because there is too much of a gap there.

Edit: Sorry guys, ill repost this in the MLS academies thread. Continue the conversation there.

Edited April 13, 2018 by BenFisk'sBiggestFan

[kacbru]

6 hours ago, Gian-Luca said:

Getting this back on track, is that Okello in the TFC locker room at the 50 second mark of this video?:

 

Nice try. Okello who?

[SpecialK]

https://www.soctakes.com/2018/04/06/okello-attracting-attention-bundesliga/

I wonder if we will see him for the olympic qualifier ? 

[hamiltonfan]

4 hours ago, SpecialK said:

https://www.soctakes.com/2018/04/06/okello-attracting-attention-bundesliga/

I wonder if we will see him for the olympic qualifier ? 

I'd like to see top prospects cap tied in the early round (Sept) League of Nation matches. 

[Bison44]

20 minutes ago, hamiltonfan said:

I'd like to see top prospects cap tied in the early round (Sept) League of Nation matches. 

Who do you think is close enough to being ready that we need to cap?  Other than Tabla, Tomori and others that are half out the door and prob wouldnt accept a call anyways.

[Bikerack]

15 hours ago, Gian-Luca said:

Getting this back on track, is that Okello in the TFC locker room at the 50 second mark of this video?:

 

i think that is Julian Dunn-Johnson? maybe those are some of the reserves they are talking about calling up for the Colorado/Houston games

[Gian-Luca]

According to this Larson article, 3 TFC II players may get signed to the first team for tomorrow:

"The Reds are considering promoting as many as three TFC II prospects in time for a weekend league fixture that comes at an inopportune time.

“The Champions League is an intense competition that requires and extreme amount of depth,” TFC general manager Tim Bezbatchenko told the Sun. “We have 30 roster spots and we’ve left some open. Given the situation with injuries and demands of this tournament and the fact we want to lay it all out there for this tournament, we are looking to move players up from TFC II and a lot of our Homegrown players are competing for these spots.”

http://torontosun.com/sports/soccer/mls/toronto-fc/toronto-fc-boss-to-fans-get-to-bmo-field-tuesday-night-for-biggest-home-game-ev

I wonder if Okello (or Dunn-Johnson) will be one of them. They were both playing at lot with the first team in pre-season IIRC