CPL new teams speculation

[Ansem]

wrong thread

 

Edited March 29, 2019 by Ansem

[baulderdash77]

14 hours ago, Senorpopps said:

Is York 9 not their natural rival? That goes without saying, I'm not a Hamilton fan so I don't truly understand you're culture and what it takes to build a rivalry. Then again, York's a hell of a lot closer in distance than the other rivalries in the league.

York9 as a natural rivalry for Halifax?

I was thinking more Moncton or Quebec City or something East of Ontario.

[Senorpopps]

Just now, baulderdash77 said:

York9 as a natural rivalry for Halifax?

I was thinking more Moncton or Quebec City or something East of Ontario.

Sorry misread! 

[CDNFootballer]

On 3/28/2019 at 12:00 PM, Nerf said:

Regarding a Lower Mainland team, I think Surrey makes the most sense, especially if they can get it on a transit route. Living in Vancouver, I wouldn't go to many matches if I had to drive, but if I can easily take transit I'd go more often.  Langley isn't getting rapid transit for a decade, so it isn't worth talking about.

The rumored Langley location is a few minutes off the freeway and most in the valley use cars to get around. Don't think Vancouver city proper would be the target fan base for a fraser valley/suburban Vancouver CPL club anyways, Surrey would be preferable but think they can make it work in Langley with the right setup as well and the rumored location has had a lot of development over the past years in and around it.

[baulderdash77]

I also think Surrey is the best spot for a lower mainland location.  It’s large enough that with Langley and Delta there’s a 750,000 population so the fan base is large enough.

Its also far enough from downtown Vancouver that it won’t compete with the Whitecaps as directly.

Its very similar to Laval in Montreal that way.  Big suburb of a huge city. 

[matty]

Just for fun. Who we know is interested and what markets are being explored

Confirmed Owner Interested

- Bunbury's group. In the Montreal area or maybe Quebec City. Join date 2020 or later if Quebec City
- Other Quebec Group. In the Montreal area or maybe Quebec City. Join date 2020 or later if Quebec City
- BC Group. Location believed to be lower mainland BC. Join date target 2020
- Belan's Group. Location Saskatchewan (likely Saskatoon)
- MLSE. Location Ontario (likely GTA). Controversial but confirmed interested and have spoken to CPL

Desired cities or locations with noted desire but unknown backer status

- Ottawa. CPL has spoken with people about a non-Fury team but no idea about investors. Resistant to Ottawa Fury but likely open to them. Join date as early as 2021 if the Fury join
- Moncton. Soccer New Brunswick are hoping to bring a team there.

Interest but unclear

- KW. CPL is interested in the market and have talked with Barry McLean but a lot remains unknown about how serious talks were and where a team would play (iirc)

Mega Dark Horse

- Oakville. Fan speculation based on high profile staff developments.

Miss anything of note?

Edited March 30, 2019 by matty

[Zem]

25 minutes ago, matty said:

Miss anything of note?

St. John's; it was confirmed by @Copes that Clanachan has been to the island and spoken face-to-face with St. John's Sports and Entertainment (the Edge/Growlers ownership group), who are very interested but will wait at least a couple years before committing to anything.

[matty]

1 minute ago, Zem said:

St. John's; it was confirmed by @Copes that Clanachan has been to the island and spoken face-to-face with St. John's Sports and Entertainment (the Edge/Growlers ownership group), who are very interested but will wait at least a couple years before committing to anything.

i'd place them in group b

[Zem]

8 minutes ago, matty said:

i'd place them in group b

Yeah, seems about right

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Have to wonder if the second would be Montreal/Laval group and the BC group are the MLS I/Os. Before we get the usual immature hysterics try to look at it rationally from their point of view and take note of the fact that MLSE have claimed publicly very recently to be in preliminary discussions with CanPL.

London arguably is known to be in group b subject to a close to downtown stadium being part of the city's development plans. That was in a mainstream media story with attributed quotes. That's more solid than Moncton, because it came from the possible investor rather than a soccer association.

I think Kelowna has also rated a mention at times in a way that suggests something exploratory is happening there. Also noteworthy that Windsor, K/W and the Niagara region did not seem to be qualified with a possibly or a maybe like Mississauga, Brampton, Barrie and Durham were by Paul Beirne on the recent podcast when discussing scope for regional intensification.

There have been meetings involving CanPL in Sherbrooke and Quebec City as well as Montreal/Laval in Quebec and PB recently talked about wanting at least two teams there and probably three in the long term.

Edited March 30, 2019 by BringBackTheBlizzard

[matty]

3 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

...I think Kelowna has also rated a mention at times in a way that suggests something exploratory is happening there. Also noteworthy that Windsor, K/W and the Niagara region did not seem to be qualified with a possibly or a maybe like Mississauga, Brampton, Barrie and Durham were by Paul Beirne on the recent podcast when discussing scope for regional intensification...

The reason for KW got the nod over them is due to KW straight up having had an owner talker with PB and other league officials over just getting a mention. I wanted to avoid the just getting a mention crowd because it's such a wide area were a lot of the talk is solely fan driven.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Fair enough but on the flipside if they are talking to people concerning 18 different markets, which is something that has been mentioned by both David Clanachan and Paul Beirne in the last week or so, it's probably safe to assume that the list includes at least some of those cities in Ontario. Beyond that although I have never seen it definitively confirmed, is Barry McLean not believed to have dropped his interest?

If they are serious about expanding beyond 16 teams over the longer term (2026 seems a tad optimistic as the stated timeline) to the point that they need to split into two tiers to accommodate the presence of lots of Saskatoon sized cities, they will need to keep budgets low as the signings announced to date suggest they are doing and will have to be willing to use relatively small stadia as is happening in five of seven launch markets, so actions are matching rhetoric.

Hopefully it works. Time will tell. Think a lower budget smaller market approach has a much better shot than a higher budget one that tilts at windmills where MLS is concerned, which I suspect is what some people like Duane Rollins would still prefer, which is why Saskatoon doesn't appear to rate a mention when he is tweeting about CanPL, which is a bit bizarre when something like the SkSSS announcement happens.

Edited March 30, 2019 by BringBackTheBlizzard

[mtlsab]

13 hours ago, matty said:

Just for fun. Who we know is interested and what markets are being explored

Confirmed Owner Interested

- Bunbury's group. In the Montreal area or maybe Quebec City. Join date 2020 or later if Quebec City
- Other Quebec Group. In the Montreal area or maybe Quebec City. Join date 2020 or later if Quebec City
- BC Group. Location believed to be lower mainland BC. Join date target 2020
- Belan's Group. Location Saskatchewan (likely Saskatoon)
- MLSE. Location Ontario (likely GTA). Controversial but confirmed interested and have spoken to CPL

Desired cities or locations with noted desire but unknown backer status

- Ottawa. CPL has spoken with people about a non-Fury team but no idea about investors. Resistant to Ottawa Fury but likely open to them. Join date as early as 2021 if the Fury join
- Moncton. Soccer New Brunswick are hoping to bring a team there.

Interest but unclear

- KW. CPL is interested in the market and have talked with Barry McLean but a lot remains unknown about how serious talks were and where a team would play (iirc)

Mega Dark Horse

- Oakville. Fan speculation based on high profile staff developments.

Miss anything of note?

 

12 hours ago, Zem said:

St. John's; it was confirmed by @Copes that Clanachan has been to the island and spoken face-to-face with St. John's Sports and Entertainment (the Edge/Growlers ownership group), who are very interested but will wait at least a couple years before committing to anything.

https://culturesoccer.com/2019/03/03/quelles-prochaines-expansions-en-canpl/

 

St John's definitely!

Probably an other southern Ontario group (Mississauga, London?)

Edited March 30, 2019 by mtlsab

[Macksam]

To BBTB,

The purpose of splitting into two tiers and having promotion/relegation is to eventually accommodate an open market system. Budgets and stadium size do not need to be kept low. If Forge eventually starts drawing 24,000 for example by 2026, PB isn't going to have an emergency meeting with the other CPL owners and go "their drawing too many people, there stadium is too big!"

Edited March 30, 2019 by Macksam

[matty]

1 hour ago, mtlsab said:

St John's definitely!

Probably an other southern Ontario group (Mississauga, London?)

I know there is fan interest in Sauga but other than that there hasn't been anything (I've found) that warranted listing it. I know there was a city councilor there that was on board but there was too little known to list.

London IIRC was rumoured for MLSE

[mpg_29]

35 minutes ago, Macksam said:

To BBTB,

The purpose of splitting into two tiers and having promotion/relegation is to eventually accommodate an open market system. Budgets and stadium size do not need to be kept low. If Forge eventually starts drawing 24,000 for example by 2026, PB isn't going to have an emergency meeting with the other CPL owners and go "their drawing too many people, there stadium is too big!"

Not going to be an open market system with salary caps and restrictions on player nationalities though..

 

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

13 minutes ago, matty said:

...London IIRC was rumoured for MLSE

That's way back now. The poster involved also thought the $200 milllion "investment" from Mediapro was going to be a cash payment to the league judging by what was on Reddit recently, so draw your own conclusions on how seriously to take it. More recently there was this:

https://lfpress.com/sports/soccer/will-london-build-a-downtown-sports-stadium-its-a-possibility

...FC London’s founder and chief operating officer, Ian Campbell, says he had discussions with the league last year but the financial numbers didn’t work out.

“There was the franchise fee, which is in the millions. Then there was the expectation that there would be money lost in the first few years,” Campbell said. “I also think that the travel expenses are going to be really steep. It’s expensive going to places like Victoria.”

But a major outstanding issue here is a stadium. Campbell’s wish list for the continued growth of the sport and FC London includes a dedicated soccer stadium. Right now FC London has a women’s and men’s senior team in League1 Ontario.

While the costs to get into the CPL are high, not having a stadium removes any decision — it’s simply not feasible.

“It’s just too much money,” Campbell said. “But if there were a stadium, now that might change things.” ...

 

Edited March 30, 2019 by BringBackTheBlizzard

[Kent]

19 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

That's way back now. The poster involved also thought the $200 milllion "investment" from Mediapro was going to be a cash payment to the league judging by what was on Reddit recently, so draw your own conclusions on how seriously to take it. More recently there was this:

https://lfpress.com/sports/soccer/will-london-build-a-downtown-sports-stadium-its-a-possibility

...FC London’s founder and chief operating officer, Ian Campbell, says he had discussions with the league last year but the financial numbers didn’t work out.

“There was the franchise fee, which is in the millions. Then there was the expectation that there would be money lost in the first few years,” Campbell said. “I also think that the travel expenses are going to be really steep. It’s expensive going to places like Victoria.”

But a major outstanding issue here is a stadium. Campbell’s wish list for the continued growth of the sport and FC London includes a dedicated soccer stadium. Right now FC London has a women’s and men’s senior team in League1 Ontario.

While the costs to get into the CPL are high, not having a stadium removes any decision — it’s simply not feasible.

“It’s just too much money,” Campbell said. “But if there were a stadium, now that might change things.” ...

 

That's pretty great. So basically he would love to own a team if there was 0 risk, weren't expenses, and if you didn't need a stadium to play in.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Maybe worth bearing in mind that his team won the PDL championship in 2012 in a similar way to what the Foothills did last summer. Ian Campbell was gung ho about moving from PDL to USL D3 back when the moratorium was imposed and was talking about a stadium at Oxford and Highbury (probably at JP II HS) at that point.

My understanding is that he is in the same sort of wealth league as the Fath brothers so is a credible would be investor on this. He was quoted in the mainstream media as being skeptical about a Canadian pro league ever working when the Easton report was being put together and like a lot of other possible investors (e.g. OSEG, St John's group and Joe Belan) probably wants to see CanPL actually working first.

The main problem for London with CanPL is that a 5000 minimum on stadium capacity with soccer specific field markings eliminates all of the easy options such as the German Club where FC London have played most of their PDL and L1O games. If you read the article there is a location he has in mind for use in CanPL which is currently being used as a city-owned parking lot, so there is a plan for how to go about it.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@42.976334,-81.2531298,244a,35y,39.37t/data=!3m1!1e3

Edited March 31, 2019 by BringBackTheBlizzard

[KW519]

22 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

“There was the franchise fee, which is in the millions.

 

Why is there a franchise fee for a club based league? I thought CPL was leaving the MLS stuff in MLS

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Think the fee is $3 million but haven't been able to track down where I read that originally. The league also has a salary cap and has held player drafts (the U-sports one for sure, but there was also talk of another one that assigned Canadian players to specific teams in some interviews). CanPL is a lot more like MLS than some people like to admit basically and can't sensibly be viewed as a European style club based league at this point. It might eventually evolve into that like the J League did in Japan, but I'll believe franchise owners in a soccer league in North America will vote to potentially be relegated when I see it actually happening.

Edited March 31, 2019 by BringBackTheBlizzard

[Guest]

6 hours ago, KW519 said:

Why is there a franchise fee for a club based league? I thought CPL was leaving the MLS stuff in MLS

It's only a franchise fee if you receive a "franchise" in exchange -- something that you can then sell to someone in an arbitrary location. If the fee to join the league is simply to ensure the financial viability of the proposed CPL Football Club (and is likely to be paid back in a few years out of league revenues) then the term "franchise fee" is a misnomer. 

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

...but you don't know whether that's the case, while Ian Campbell who chose to use that terminology almost certainly does. Something for the next podcaster to interview Paul Beirne to ask about along with whether multiyear contracts are guaranteed for the full duration or include club held options.

[Macksam]

On 3/30/2019 at 12:37 PM, mpg_29 said:

Not going to be an open market system with salary caps and restrictions on player nationalities though..

 

Eventually accommodate an open market system. It isn't one now but I believe the CPL will gradually evolve into such a system. 

Edited April 1, 2019 by Macksam

[Copes]

On 3/30/2019 at 12:04 AM, Zem said:

St. John's; it was confirmed by @Copes that Clanachan has been to the island and spoken face-to-face with St. John's Sports and Entertainment (the Edge/Growlers ownership group), who are very interested but will wait at least a couple years before committing to anything.

Just to clarify - them waiting a few years before committing is my speculation based on the vibe I got from the conversations I had with people in-the-know. Only thing I really know is that Clanachan has been here.