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CPL new teams speculation


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4 hours ago, Obinna said:

Well, Moncton is more francophone than Fredricton or Saint John, so there's that. Probably not enough to take away from your all-New Brunswick idea though, if you ask me.

Regardless, Moncton would be a very cool destination for a future team, especially considering the stadium. Plus, in terms of geography, it would link Halifax with whatever team(s) come from Quebec. I like the idea of that, I am just concerned about the lack of talent in the region.

Halifax alone will vaccum up any good players from NB and PEI, so Moncton may be redundant as far as player development goes.

Someone more familiar with the province could chime in, but from the outside looking in, I don't think there'd be much of an issue branding Moncton as NB's team. I don't necessarily think you'd have to though. It would probably pan out that way organically. I think the lack of professional sports would draw people in from all over the province and override any minor rivalries that may exist between the 3 cities.

That would likely be the ONLY way to have Moncton in the CPL if it is branded as an "Acadie-Brunswick" team.  Moncton does have several advantages in that it has an existing stadium and would fill in a geographic gap between Halifax and Quebec City. As well you would have a rivalry between Moncton and Halifax(Atlantic Derby) and Moncton and Quebec City(Francophone Derby).   BUT the question remains is "Is there enough talent in NB or will Halifax take most of the Atlantic talent in the coming years"  and would not Halifax be seen as Atlantic Canada's team (as you see the CFL team in Halifax is named the ATLANTIC Schooners, not the Halifax Explosion, etc)

 

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5 hours ago, Obinna said:

Well, Moncton is more francophone than Fredricton or Saint John, so there's that. Probably not enough to take away from your all-New Brunswick idea though, if you ask me.

Regardless, Moncton would be a very cool destination for a future team, especially considering the stadium. Plus, in terms of geography, it would link Halifax with whatever team(s) come from Quebec. I like the idea of that, I am just concerned about the lack of talent in the region.

Halifax alone will vaccum up any good players from NB and PEI, so Moncton may be redundant as far as player development goes.

Someone more familiar with the province could chime in, but from the outside looking in, I don't think there'd be much of an issue branding Moncton as NB's team. I don't necessarily think you'd have to though. It would probably pan out that way organically. I think the lack of professional sports would draw people in from all over the province and override any minor rivalries that may exist between the 3 cities.

I'm curious, Obinna, as to why you would think Moncton makes more sense than St. John's. 

In my head, St. John's wins on population, St. John's wins on culture (which is at least a little bit important in attracting players) and St. John's wins in terms of truly stretching soccer coast-to-coast. 

St. John's hurts in terms of cost to operate a team, and always will. However, I'm standing strong that St. John's has a better chance of getting a CPL team than Moncton. I'm not sure about available talent - I admittedly didn't start paying attention to soccer until I was well past an age that could compete. But I feel like for both places, a CPL team would be a catalyst for development. Further, I know in Newfoundland anyway, there is a strong grass-roots soccer community in parts of the province. I've always just understood that there is no where to go with it.

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1 hour ago, Impactsupporter said:

That would likely be the ONLY way to have Moncton in the CPL if it is branded as an "Acadie-Brunswick" team.  Moncton does have several advantages in that it has an existing stadium and would fill in a geographic gap between Halifax and Quebec City. As well you would have a rivalry between Moncton and Halifax(Atlantic Derby) and Moncton and Quebec City(Francophone Derby).   BUT the question remains is "Is there enough talent in NB or will Halifax take most of the Atlantic talent in the coming years"  and would not Halifax be seen as Atlantic Canada's team (as you see the CFL team in Halifax is named the ATLANTIC Schooners, not the Halifax Explosion, etc)

 

People seem to view Atlantic Canada as some sort of monolith....it's 4 provinces.

Maybe the 3 Maritime provinces are more connected but from a Newfoundland perspective it's probably just as connected to Alberta or Ontario as it is NS, NB and PEI. 

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50 minutes ago, mpg_29 said:

People seem to view Atlantic Canada as some sort of monolith....it's 4 provinces.

Maybe the 3 Maritime provinces are more connected but from a Newfoundland perspective it's probably just as connected to Alberta or Ontario as it is NS, NB and PEI. 

Bingo - especially with respect to NL.  There is definitely still a "shared sense of place" (if that doesn't sound too hokey), but simple geography dictates that NL would very rarely be part of the actual in-stadium support.  

And the Maritime connection, while probably a bit stronger, still has barriers to truly regional support.  While Islanders would likely cheer for a Halifax team, it is a 3 hr drive from Chtown, $50 in bridge fare, and a possible overnight stay depending on the game time. Some folks may catch a game or two when they are in Hali for other reasons, but most people won't be regularly commuting to go to a game,. Probably the same for people from NB.  

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22 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I want to pick up on the previous post. It is not directly related to players, but to league quality. 

In many top leagues in the world we have seen debates on how quality can only be preserved by reducing the number of teams. Now league size is not only a question of optimal quality, as there are also considerations of freeing up fixtures for international and cup competitions, but historically the debate has been made.

This is why Serie A and Bundesliga cut back (for this latter the winter break was also a factor). There was a time when La Liga had 22 (and even 21 one year). In any case the argument is there: more teams means more teams of a lesser quality, more filler, more fixtures vs teams that are of lesser interest for fans (even fans of weaker teams do not want to see similar sides, they prefer the more notorious ones). It does not necessarily mean more better players, as the lesser teams simply cannot go out and take them from economically weaker leagues. 

In countries with small leagues, like Scotland, or Austria, the key is that there is a drop-off in quality and strength of clubs, largely due to the country's size leaving you with a few stronger clubs, and then quickly clubs in smaller stadiums and lesser economic clout. The tv market does not compensate this, as the audiences drop off brusquely for the weaker sides. This curve could appear in CPL if we add teams. I am not sure we are there yet, and we have a few markets that suggest that there is a way to go (Greater Victoria and lower Van Isle puts this at half a million population in a vicinity of say 100 km).

Now the question of player pool is also a factor, but will only appear as flagrant if some teams, in superior economic mode, can sign the better ones, and the lesser and marginal types entering into clubs on the fringe of its quality go to weaker teams. This is a reason for a cap that goes beyond the question of helping clubs manage finances and not overspend, to ensure none is overextended and thus in risk of failure. A cap softens the effect of having players from semi-pro and amateur ranks coming into a league, even one moving towards 14 teams, and making it obviously of poorer quality with every addition. 

I think we should stop expanding at 12 teams. After that, we should start the CPL 2 and a CPL League Cup. If we keep expanding until we reach 18, there will never be Pro/Rel

18 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

So is that in function of fans, or in function of the quality of young players the region can produce? Just curious. 

We have regions in Canada that used to be strong in producing players and have dropped in relative terms (BC), others that have yet to really move but could get a big boost with a CPL team (Maritimes), then others which are already strong and may get stronger (Southern Ontario, thinking of L1O growing under the CPL wing). 

As for fans, I don't think it is unrelated. I am probably a big soccer fan because I played, though rather poorly, all my youth and then house leagues at university even. But only really woke up to my passion for it when I got to Barcelona in my late 20s (Whitecaps were too inconsistent, as was that damn league).

I was going to write I thought a Moncton team could work as a rival, but I just checked population and realise maybe what you need is a truly New Brunswick identified team that the entire province could get behind. 

I think we should consider the demographic (the league targets 200k cities for CPL and 50-100k cities for CPL2)

We should expect that in 10-20 years, all the cities of 50k+ have at least a semi-pro team

8 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

What would it mean to have an all New Brunswick team, with a provincial identity, in CPL? Would that work? I mean, the three largest cities, while small, are fairly close. Would a Moncton team draw from Fredricton and St John? Or is their similar size a source of rivalry?

Or a first step: have there been any moves to create a PDL club in New Brunswick? 

What I am feeling deep down: a team in NB gives us an incredible regional set of rivalries, and fairly close options for away travel. 

I think these 3 cities can have a team in CPL 1 or CPL2, I consider Moncton as the best choice for CPL1 because of the stadium (You can read my article about that CPL expansion )

The problem with rivalries is that, sometimes, it divides the fanbase and the market and diluate the interest, especially when it is in the same city

 

I hope that in CPL 1 and CPL 2, we could have:
NB: Moncton, Fredericton, Saint John 

NS: Halifax and maybe a second one in CPL 2

PEI: Charlottetown probably in CPL 2 unless a rich billionaire wants to invest a lot

NF: St John's

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3 hours ago, Copes said:

I'm curious, Obinna, as to why you would think Moncton makes more sense than St. John's. 

In my head, St. John's wins on population, St. John's wins on culture (which is at least a little bit important in attracting players) and St. John's wins in terms of truly stretching soccer coast-to-coast. 

St. John's hurts in terms of cost to operate a team, and always will. However, I'm standing strong that St. John's has a better chance of getting a CPL team than Moncton. I'm not sure about available talent - I admittedly didn't start paying attention to soccer until I was well past an age that could compete. But I feel like for both places, a CPL team would be a catalyst for development. Further, I know in Newfoundland anyway, there is a strong grass-roots soccer community in parts of the province. I've always just understood that there is no where to go with it.

I don't. I think St. John's wins. See my previous post below.

18 hours ago, Obinna said:

Anyways, Halifax has that tradition of being the regional hub for soccer in Atlantic Canada for youth players - Halifax Wanderers can be like the adult, professional version of that. I don't see the need for another team in the region anytime soon, if ever.

Though if there was, I would like to see it in Newfoundland. It is rather isolated from the rest of Atlantic Canada, plus y'know, I am biased! ?

Halifax would vaccum up the talent from the rest of the Maritimes, which would make Moncton redundant, as I said before. However, Halifax would not capture Newfoundland as effectively.

I mean, Halifax CPL is better than nothing, but it's still the mainland. 

So from that perspective, St. John's is better (in addition to your other points).

In terms of spheres of influence, St. John's is to Newfoundland what Halifax is to the Maritimes, just on a smaller scale. NB and PEI are sufficently connected to Halifax, they don't really need their own spheres.

That last paragraph was in the context of player development:

@dyslexic nam I will reference you as you brought up travel (albiet in a different context). 

Imagine, you are the proud parent of a talented teenager, and Halfiax Wanderers want your kid to join their academy. The commute is 3/4 hours by car from Moncton, Saint John, Fredricton - throw in the $50 tol if your coming from PEI. It is all very doable, your kid can move to Halifax and you can visit on weekends, if you want.

Now, imagine you're a Newfoundland parent and your kid gets scouted by Wanderers (which is harder to do in NL, btw). Do you want to ship them off to Halifax? How often can you realistically take the 1.5 hr flight to Halifax to visit? 

Edited by Obinna
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I suspect Moncton will have a team in the near future as they have the stadium already in place.  And they would serve NB and PEI. 

Local player availability has no basis on pro teams roster makeup as they can sign players from wherever. Cpl might look to sign a local or two for marketing purposes but there not going to sign a local over someone whose going to make the team better. 

Nova Scotia is improving in all areas of athletics because they invest money into sport infrastructure, coaching etc. The rtc programs especially from Atlantic Canada haven’t really produced any significant results. 

Theres no players in Newfoundland who are going to make pro. Unless they get out of the province and play elsewhere. 

 

 

 

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Responding to a lot of posts here.

I think Moncton is a better pick not only because of the stadium, but because St John is in a sort of decline, it is not even demographically dynamic. It is not really the driving force of the province.

As for closeness to Quebec, I was thinking something similar, but in fact we are talking about too far to drive to a game. It's over 700 km. At that distance, faster to fly still. I guess the rivalry would be there, to a point, but I would not overstate it. 

I don't think a region has to have local players to support a pro team. There is no basis for that in fact. I can point to regions where there are strong pro teams but which produce relatively few players. They get them from elsewhere. It is possible: Moncton does not have to have any more than a few players from the Maritimes to have some sort of connection. In 6-8 years, maybe things will be different.

And then: how many players in CPL will be still living in their previous residence from before signing? Like, Pacific has a strong BC contingent, but not one of those guys was living close enough to not look for a new place. Players are moving just the same, so them coming from Ontario or Quebec to another Maritime team need not be a problem.

As for a city or regional identity: we have seen the tendency in CPL to use names that do not bind us to a specific place, or when they do, are innovative. Only Edmonton does the classic FC + City.

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Things are definitely turning around in the prairies and certainly that has been impacted by the Whitecaps vice grip on western canada with academies popping up everywhere. That's 2 saskatoon players in 3 year signed to a first team contract. I think the future is bright.

On a different point when do you think the new teams will be announced? Wasnt it around this time last year they started the chain of announcements? I thought with so much still coming out about this first season they would wait for a quieter part of the season or season end. However maybe they will do it prior to the season start. Wouldnt you want to engage those new cities to get them invested in this season and more eyes in the league?

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7 hours ago, Obinna said:

I don't. I think St. John's wins. See my previous post below.

Halifax would vaccum up the talent from the rest of the Maritimes, which would make Moncton redundant, as I said before. However, Halifax would not capture Newfoundland as effectively.

I mean, Halifax CPL is better than nothing, but it's still the mainland. 

So from that perspective, St. John's is better (in addition to your other points).

In terms of spheres of influence, St. John's is to Newfoundland what Halifax is to the Maritimes, just on a smaller scale. NB and PEI are sufficently connected to Halifax, they don't really need their own spheres.

That last paragraph was in the context of player development:

@dyslexic nam I will reference you as you brought up travel (albiet in a different context). 

Imagine, you are the proud parent of a talented teenager, and Halfiax Wanderers want your kid to join their academy. The commute is 3/4 hours by car from Moncton, Saint John, Fredricton - throw in the $50 tol if your coming from PEI. It is all very doable, your kid can move to Halifax and you can visit on weekends, if you want.

Now, imagine you're a Newfoundland parent and your kid gets scouted by Wanderers (which is harder to do in NL, btw). Do you want to ship them off to Halifax? How often can you realistically take the 1.5 hr flight to Halifax to visit? 

I must have misread / misunderstood your post. I'll blame it on an early morning and lack of coffee I guess. Thanks for clarification - I think we are in full agreement!

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I've been analyzing difference scenarios to grow the league, and I think this Apertura/Clausura format is going to be used by the league until it reaches 15 teams. Once the 16th team joins, CPL will probably split the league into a 8-team first division with a 28-game balanced schedule, and a second division built around the Apertura/Clausura format that will allow for additional teams to be added as the league expands.

At season's end, the winner(s) of the Div 2 playoff would be promoted and the last place team (or 2) in Div 1 would be relegated. As Div 2 expands, I would expect they would either partially or fully regionalize it by partitioning the teams in to Eastern and Western (and Central?) Conferences to lessen the travel burden on the teams at that level. As team quality (and finances) improves, I can imagine the CPL will slowly increase the number of teams in First Division to 10-15 teams.

Realistically, I expect the CPL would stabilize with a national 10-team Div 1 and a semi-regional Div 2 with a fluctuating number of 12-18 teams. My ultimate desired League format would be to have a national 15-team Div 1, a semi-regional 15-team Div 2 (3 conferences of 5), and a fully regional Div 3 of 7-13 teams each with pro/rel between all three levels. The current Semi-Pro Div 3 leagues would move down to fourth division. It will never happen, but there are worse dreams to have.

Edited by Initial B
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17 minutes ago, Initial B said:

I've been analyzing difference scenarios to grow the league, and I think this Apertura/Clausura format is going to be used by the league until it reaches 15 teams. Once the 16th team joins, CPL will probably split the league into a 8-team first division with a 28-game balanced schedule, and a second division built around the Apertura/Clausura format that will allow for additional teams to be added as the league expands.

At season's end, the winner(s) of the Div 2 playoff would be promoted and the last place team (or 2) in Div 1 would be relegated. As Div 2 expands, I would expect they would either partially or fully regionalize it by partitioning the teams in to Eastern and Western (and Central?) Conferences to lessen the travel burden on the teams at that level. As team quality (and finances) improves, I can imagine the CPL will slowly increase the number of teams in First Division to 10-15 teams.

Realistically, I expect the CPL would stabilize with a national 10-team Div 1 and a semi-regional Div 2 with a fluctuating number of 12-18 teams. My ultimate desired League format would be to have a national 15-team Div 1, a semi-regional 15-team Div 2 (3 conferences of 5), and a fully regional Div 3 of 7-13 teams each with pro/rel between all three levels. The current Semi-Pro Div 3 leagues would move down to fourth division. It will never happen, but there are worse dreams to have.

Re the bolded part, I actually don't see any reason why it wouldn't, as long as the basic pro-rel architecture is put in place.  And I see no reason why that wouldn't happen. 

  • Owners have been fully informed that is the intention, so no one can cry foul if/when they get bumped from D1. 
  • For the biggest, most influential folks from the richest markets, the odds will always be in their favour to stay up or immediately win promotion back into the big one.
  • While the cost of entering CPL at D1 may be a barrier for small markets, the cost of entering a tiered structure at (for example) D3 would be relatively low.  Heck, even PEI has been able to fund a local "Premier" level team that traveled regularly to NS and NB in past years.
  • We may still be hampered by pessimism, but the reality is that footy has come leaps and bounds in the last couple of decades in this country, and there is no reason to think that the world's most popular sport won't continue to grow here in Canada.  In many ways, we were one of the big untapped markets - a modern society, with economic clout, that is just starting to love the beautiful game and yet had no domestic league. 

Sure it may be a decade or two away, but I absolutely could see a truly national, tiered structure coming into existence that would allow teams at a variety of levels to play out of a variety of locations.  Provided the pro-rel mechanisms are entrenched in the league's foundational governance structure, I would argue that it is almost inevitable. 

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The magic number is 2026 .

The popularity of football in this country will only but increase as we approach the World Cup and all eyes will be on Canada.

A good 1st CPL season, on top of the MediaPro and sponsorship deals, with decent attendance and merchandise sales should convince investors that were on the fence up until now. CONCACAF League participation is a major boost into the overall value of the league.

Let's not forget that investors are more likely to partner up to reduce their individual risks into the league while it's not impossible that a Thomson (richest estate in Canada and owners of the Winnipeg Jets), a Katz and even CSEC (Calgary Sports Entertainment) or Peladeau in Quebec City might take a once in a lifetime interest in the project. There ain't that many new leagues being created. Investors can join later on existing clubs or start new ones if the league's vision works.

That being said, there's more reason to be optimistic than pessimistic thanks in big part to the World Cup. Business-wise, there's lot to capitalize upon such a event (once a lifetime).

My optimistic CPL structure Post-World Cup, 2030s

Tier 1 Canadian Premier League

  • Single table (Due to D2, elimination of Apertura / Clausura formula)
  • Prediction : Post 2030, CPL will have grown enough to repatriate our 3 MLS clubs.
  • Top 2 teams goes to CCL, 3rd goes to CL. V Cup winner goes to CL (expecting an expansion of CCL by then)
  • Clubs: 16 clubs to 20 clubs
  • Top 3 CONCACAF league in term of finances, Top 5 in terms of talent.
  • Creation of D2 would allow to "relax the quota". CPL 2.0 (post 2026), could go down to 5 mandatory Canadian Starters and increase to 8 Internationals allowed on rosters to increase the level of play. (Reason? CPL 2.0 will aim at winning a CL trophy and being competitive in CCL)

*Launch of Women's Canadian Premier League

 

Tier 2 Canadian Championship

  • Rebranding of the V Cup tournament to "Canada Cup" and D2 to Canadian Championship. Prestige to D2 branding will help the league
  • Single table, national coast to coast league
  • Canadian USL clubs are moved here. Reserve teams cannot promote but can be relegated
  • Instead of splitting CPL in half, I predict that CPL will open bids for D2. Lower admission costs within the CPL pyramid combined with a promotion opportunity are key to bring in more investors
  • The MediaPro deal that includes League 1 Ontario means that clubs at that level should expect some kind of payment once they get broadcast. This is an ingenious example of "pyramidal revenue sharing" structure which will help a D2 league function, hence attracting potential investors.
  • Relegation playoffs to Regional D3
  • Promotion playoffs close the "pyramid" season. The CPL champion is celebrated, then the day  after, ALL EYES to see who promotes to CPL, treating the event as a massive celebration thus boosting the interest in D2.
  • Clubs: 16 clubs. (examples : Coquitlam, Kelowna, Windsor, Niagara Region, London, Halton Region, Brampton, Barrie, Scarborough, North York, Etobicoke, Durham Region, Gatineau, Longueuil, Sherbrooke, Charlottetown)
  • Player Canadian content : Very high to not loose track of CPL mandate of developing Canadian talent.

 

Tier 3 The National League

  • The National league emulates the Canadian Hockey League.  (CSA action plan of 2014)
  • 4 leagues falls under it:  League 1 West (created by CPL), League 1 Prairies (Created by CPL), League 1 Ontario (Acquired by CPL), Ligue 1 Quebec & Maritimes (Acquisition of PLSQ and expansion to Atlantic Canada)
  • All 4 champions (via classic single table) advance to Memorial Cup type tournament. Winner promotes to D2 Canadian Championship
  • All remaining PDL clubs are moved to this tier

Example of a CPL end of season celebration

Using 2019 Calendar year as an example

  • Memorial Cup Tournament Final : Friday October 18th
  • End CPL Season : Saturday October 19th - CPL Champion is crowned
  • Canadian Championship Promotion Final : Sunday October 20th
Edited by Ansem
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Agree that 2026 is key. That's 8 seasons from now.

For comparison, for the first 8 years of MLS, they went from 10 to 12 to 10 teams. In the next 8 years, they went from 10 to 18 teams. If the CPL can follow the second MLS trajectory rather the first, then at that point the CPL will be 8 years old with hopefully an 8-team Div 1 and a 10-team Div 2 with Pro-Rel between them. Maybe it would look something like this:

image.thumb.png.cfdb8f0bd028815e28eb7123bf0b9ffe.png

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45 minutes ago, Ansem said:

The magic number is 2026 .

The popularity of football in this country will only but increase as we approach the World Cup and all eyes will be on Canada.

A good 1st CPL season, on top of the MediaPro and sponsorship deals, with decent attendance and merchandise sales should convince investors that were on the fence up until now. CONCACAF League participation is a major boost into the overall value of the league.

Let's not forget that investors are more likely to partner up to reduce their individual risks into the league while it's not impossible that a Thomson (richest estate in Canada and owners of the Winnipeg Jets), a Katz and even CSEC (Calgary Sports Entertainment) or Peladeau in Quebec City might take a once in a lifetime interest in the project. There ain't that many new leagues being created. Investors can join later on existing clubs or start new ones if the league's vision works.

That being said, there's more reason to be optimistic than pessimistic thanks in big part to the World Cup. Business-wise, there's lot to capitalize upon such a event (once a lifetime).

 

Every one you mentioned is fine except Peladeau, I don't think he's interested in anything Canadian.?

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23 minutes ago, Initial B said:

Agree that 2026 is key. That's 8 seasons from now.

For comparison, for the first 8 years of MLS, they went from 10 to 12 to 10 teams. In the next 8 years, they went from 10 to 18 teams. If the CPL can follow the second MLS trajectory rather the first, then at that point the CPL will be 8 years old with hopefully an 8-team Div 1 and a 10-team Div 2 with Pro-Rel between them. Maybe it would look something like this:

image.thumb.png.cfdb8f0bd028815e28eb7123bf0b9ffe.png

The day Mississagau is in top flight to the detriment of Pacific FC I will eat moose shit for breakfast. On rye.

Really, why do people come up with these insulting little lists based on absolutely NOTHING except wiki demographic searches. What do you get from being demeaning to two founding teams and sticking in two teams, in top flight, that no one has even talked about?

Edited by Unnamed Trialist
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5k seated in division 2 is a bit much. 1-2k seated with a couple terraces would be fine. That way the stadium is full and has a good atmosphere. Start small and grow the stadium with the club. Also i'd imagine a club like FC London turns fully pro and tries to enter the 2nd tier before a brand new club is created there.

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5 minutes ago, Senorpopps said:

If we are going based on demographics I don't see why the Niagara region couldn't have a team. A well placed stadium can draw crowds from St Kitts, Niagara Falls AND Welland ... which has a combined population of 400k if I'm not mistaken.

Been saying Niagara would be a good prospect. LOTS of tourists, probably the funnest city in Ontario so many southern Ontarians are there as well, easy to partner/package deals with one of the many attraction providers, strong European(Italian,Serbian) roots, strong soccer roots(more st kitts), and it's a city that can draw from it's American neighbours(literally walk across the rainbow bridge)

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23 minutes ago, MtlMario said:

Every one you mentioned is fine except Peladeau, I don't think he's interested in anything Canadian.?

True but his "nationalistic" roots will make it too hard to resist. A Quebec - French team beating Canadian teams might be hard to resist. Souverainists tends to succumb to the need to prove they can do just as well or better than English Canada :D

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26 minutes ago, RS said:

It's Mississauga. Show some respect for the 6th largest city in Canada.

pfft doesn't even have its own police force. gonna probably get merged into a single city with the rest of peel in a year or 2

also brampton has a better art gallery

Edited by matty
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6 minutes ago, Ansem said:

True but his "nationalistic" roots will make it too hard to resist. A Quebec - French team beating Canadian teams might be hard to resist. Souverainists tends to succumb to the need to prove they can do just as well or better than English Canada :D

In a way it would be great to have a team to hate as a rival to a Laval/Mtl team.?

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1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Really, why do people come up with these insulting little lists based on absolutely NOTHING except wiki demographic searches. What do you get from being demeaning to two founding teams and sticking in two teams, in top flight, that no one has even talked about?

Sigh. Fine. Here's a closer to final state that I could see the league becoming Circa 2040. This should include just about every possible location for a club.

image.thumb.png.c675e78427afcf7dfda1a4b0ac91e15c.png

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