CPL new teams speculation

[Senorpopps]

1 hour ago, KW519 said:

Been saying Niagara would be a good prospect. LOTS of tourists, probably the funnest city in Ontario so many southern Ontarians are there as well, easy to partner/package deals with one of the many attraction providers, strong European(Italian,Serbian) roots, strong soccer roots(more st kitts), and it's a city that can draw from it's American neighbours(literally walk across the rainbow bridge)

And from what I understand, the Niagara Falls side of America blows - even greater reason to visit. What city would you place the stadium in? I don't see placing it in the obscure rural region between three cities a viable choice if you want to attract walk-ins. 

[Senorpopps]

I don't see why the league does not try and load up teams around the Toronto region. The Golden Horseshoe itself can probably support 5 (York FC, Forge FC, Niagara team, Peel-Halton team and Durham team) maybe 6 teams along with London and K/W being a reasonable drive from a Toronto airport. Considering that away travel will be one of if not the biggest expense (not an economist), adding a team in Toronto incentivizes adding another b/c it drastically reduces the away travel cost. As for teams not in the Toronto area, whenever I look for vacations, the cheapest deals are almost always out of T-dot. This means having more teams in that area also reduces the travel cost for teams from Victoria all the way to Halifax (Cannot wait to use St. Johns as my east-coast example one day).

[Ansem]

9 minutes ago, Senorpopps said:

I don't see why the league does not try and load up teams around the Toronto region. The Golden Horseshoe itself can probably support 5 (York FC, Forge FC, Niagara team, Peel-Halton team and Durham team) maybe 6 teams along with London and K/W being a reasonable drive from a Toronto airport. Considering that away travel will be one of if not the biggest expense (not an economist), adding a team in Toronto incentivizes adding another b/c it drastically reduces the away travel cost. As for teams not in the Toronto area, whenever I look for vacations, the cheapest deals are almost always out of T-dot. This means having more teams in that area also reduces the travel cost for teams from Victoria all the way to Halifax (Cannot wait to use St. Johns as my east-coast example one day).

Being a Canadian League, having a presence in every provinces must be a goal the league is actively pursuing...

[Senorpopps]

Just now, Ansem said:

Being a Canadian League, having a presence in every provinces must be a goal the league is actively pursuing...

I agree with every province, save PEI, having a team. I guess what I'm trying to say is we shouldn't shy away from having teams in as many of the Golden Horseshoe pockets as possible. It may make away travel more financially easier. Victoria to Toronto is a whole lot cheaper than Victoria to Halifax or St. Johns. 

[KW519]

23 minutes ago, Senorpopps said:

And from what I understand, the Niagara Falls side of America blows - even greater reason to visit. What city would you place the stadium in? I don't see placing it in the obscure rural region between three cities a viable choice if you want to attract walk-ins. 

I'd go Oakes Park-the potential views of downtown Niagara Falls in the back drop??

[Ansem]

7 minutes ago, Senorpopps said:

I agree with every province, save PEI, having a team. I guess what I'm trying to say is we shouldn't shy away from having teams in as many of the Golden Horseshoe pockets as possible. It may make away travel more financially easier. Victoria to Toronto is a whole lot cheaper than Victoria to Halifax or St. Johns. 

There must be investors willing to invest in the GH. Also, I think the league has a plan of where it wants it's teams to first be located.

ex: KW or London is more urgent than Sherbrooke, Moncton must be more urgent than Oshawa

[dyslexic nam]

34 minutes ago, Senorpopps said:

I agree with every province, save PEI, having a team. I guess what I'm trying to say is we shouldn't shy away from having teams in as many of the Golden Horseshoe pockets as possible. It may make away travel more financially easier. Victoria to Toronto is a whole lot cheaper than Victoria to Halifax or St. Johns. 

And a friendly "fuck you" to you sir.  

                              - a proud Islander

[Senorpopps]

15 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

And a friendly "fuck you" to you sir.  

                              - a proud Islander

Sorry for offending you, it's just my islander friend told me soccer is not well supported on the island and as such I just can't see 3-4% of the population coming out for a game. That and the 50$ toll fee is daunting for anyone on the NB side to come and watch. Please prove me wrong ... the island's a beautiful place for the beautiful game. 

[dyslexic nam]

5 minutes ago, Senorpopps said:

Sorry for offending you, it's just my islander friend told me soccer is not well supported on the island and as such I just can't see 3-4% of the population coming out for a game. That and the 50$ toll fee is daunting for anyone on the NB side to come and watch. Please prove me wrong ... the island's a beautiful place for the beautiful game. 

That's the beauty of a tiered structure.  You don't need to jump in at D1.  And assuming a reasonable level of growth, it is clear that with some provinces represented multiple times, there probably won't be every province represented in D1 anyway.  It is quite possible that within 5 or 6 years, there could be 5 or 6 teams in Ontario, 2 in QC, 2 in BC, and 2 in AB.  Throw in teams in the other provinces, and it likely isn't just PEI on the outside looking in.  Plus in a pro-real system, it isn't just about the size of you stadium - it's what you do with it

Edited March 11, 2019 by dyslexic nam

[Unnamed Trialist]

Just now, RS said:

It's Mississauga. Show some respect.

[ChrisinOrleans]

If we're looking at markets that have 200k+ in population, I am hereby declaring that Vanier + Orléans/PR, Ontario should be included. There are 296,000 Franco-Ontarians in Eastern Ontario, and of those 90% are in between Ottawa - Hawkesbury. We should have a Franco-Ontarian team, called CS Jeanne D'Arc (named for the street in Orléans, not ripping off the French hero), playing out of Le terrain des Gee-Gees, on Lees Avenue. This stadium already has the added benefit of already having a giant frickin' Franco-Ontarian flag mounted out front. It could also partner with Collège La Cité and uOttawa to snap up some of the local Franco talent to bolster the ranks. 

I don't know how, but they also need to find a way to make Amanda Simard the mascot, coach, team captain and goalkeeper all at the same time. 

 

Yeah, and if Moncton gets a team before Ottawa joins the league, it should be called "Evangeline FC" and play at Stade de Moncton at Université de Moncton. Calling it. 

[Ansem]

When the league was talking about 200k+ to be a viable CPL location, they left out an important aspect out of it publicly but you just know that it weights a ton...

Corporate presence

Those $1k seats that sold out at York University and those multi-hundreds dollars plates during that York 9 event(so I've heard) Corporation $$$

Those crazy expensive seats at Spruce Meadows are likely aimed at Corporations as well, not your average middle class family of 4.

I would argue that an area with 300k but little to no corporate presence makes it less desirable, for D1 at least. Looking at the census, despite Barrie ranking higher in population, Moncton makes way more sense due to it's corporate weight (Irving). Same for Niagara-St.Cath having double St.John's population but they have Oil companies like ExxonMobil Canada having it's HQ there.

A strong Corporate presence that spends on the product (recurring expansive season tickets, concessions and merchandise) helps the clubs being less dependent on lower tier ticket sales.  I think CPL did a much better job in that area than the CSL ever did, hence its demise. That was actually a Clanachan main talking point, corporate Canada seems as shown up and it seems that it will be an increasing trend.

Isn't that the whole point of CSB after all? Can't be a major league without corporate money.

 

Edited March 12, 2019 by Ansem

[fmfranck]

1 hour ago, ChrisinOrleans said:

If we're looking at markets that have 200k+ in population, I am hereby declaring that Vanier + Orléans/PR, Ontario should be included. There are 296,000 Franco-Ontarians in Eastern Ontario, and of those 90% are in between Ottawa - Hawkesbury. We should have a Franco-Ontarian team, called CS Jeanne D'Arc (named for the street in Orléans, not ripping off the French hero), playing out of Le terrain des Gee-Gees, on Lees Avenue. This stadium already has the added benefit of already having a giant frickin' Franco-Ontarian flag mounted out front. It could also partner with Collège La Cité and uOttawa to snap up some of the local Franco talent to bolster the ranks. 

I don't know how, but they also need to find a way to make Amanda Simard the mascot, coach, team captain and goalkeeper all at the same time. 

 

Yeah, and if Moncton gets a team before Ottawa joins the league, it should be called "Evangeline FC" and play at Stade de Moncton at Université de Moncton. Calling it. 

Question : do you think franco ontarians would get behind a Gatineau team? Those 290k would be a nice boost to the 330k possible fanbase in Gatineau. And you'd get a "better" corporate presence at the same time. 

Edited March 12, 2019 by fmfranck

[Winnipeg Fury]

I haven't looked at the Rollins thread.  Is it a joke ?

There aren't even amateur french teams in Winnipeg or MB.  Never can I recall a french team in Molson Super Soccer Alliance or MMSL Premier.   Anyone suggesting MB needs a french team team to rival Valour is an idiot. 

Valour is our team, regardless of language.

Hopefully Rollins tweet is in jest.

 

[fmfranck]

13 minutes ago, Winnipeg Fury said:

I haven't looked at the Rollins thread.  Is it a joke ?

There aren't even amateur french teams in Winnipeg or MB.  Never can I recall a french team in Molson Super Soccer Alliance or MMSL Premier.   Anyone suggesting MB needs a french team team to rival Valour is an idiot. 

 Valour is our team, regardless of language.

 Hopefully Rollins tweet is in jest.

  

Yea, not enough francos left in Manitoba to build a club identity around, unfortunately. People have this notion that Manitoba has a french heritage because of what we learn in history books. But the french population went from being the majority, to 10% at the turn of the previous century, to 5% for most of it, and it is now at less than 3.3%. No way can that sustain a professional team. (just checked and there's 8.6% billinguals, still think it isnt as viable as a francophone team in Moncton and Gatineau).

Edited March 12, 2019 by fmfranck

[Bison44]

Rollins cant be serious?? Has he ever been to Winnipeg/manitoba??  More chance of having a Dynamo Ukraine team playing out of the new S. JUBA memorial stadium.  Or maybe try a Filipino team.....franco-manitoban...I think he is smoking something.  

[Cheeta]

1 hour ago, Ansem said:

When the league was talking about 200k+ to be a viable CPL location, they left out an important aspect out of it publicly but you just know that it weights a ton...

Corporate presence

Those $1k seats that sold out at York University and those multi-hundreds dollars plates during that York 9 event(so I've heard) Corporation $$$

Those crazy expensive seats at Spruce Meadows are likely aimed at Corporations as well, not your average middle class family of 4.

...

 

Ohhhh.  Not even a ball kicked in anger yet and already the reasons to hate York and Cavalry are added up.  

Smoothie drinking,  i-phone yacking, late for kick-off sons-of-bitches can put their cologne scented asses back into their spotlessly clean Jeep SUVs and bugger off to where ever it is they came from. 

Oh yeah, and tell me to sit down one more time any you're going to get such a pinch!  See if you don't!  

[Rocket Robin]

14 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Rollins cant be serious?? Has he ever been to Winnipeg/manitoba??  More chance of having a Dynamo Ukraine team playing out of the new S. JUBA memorial stadium.  Or maybe try a Filipino team.....franco-manitoban...I think he is smoking something.  

Maybe setting up a cheap pun for the team name  'Riel Manitoba'  

[shamrock]

5 hours ago, Ansem said:

When the league was talking about 200k+ to be a viable CPL location, they left out an important aspect out of it publicly but you just know that it weights a ton...

Corporate presence

Those $1k seats that sold out at York University and those multi-hundreds dollars plates during that York 9 event(so I've heard) Corporation $$$

Those crazy expensive seats at Spruce Meadows are likely aimed at Corporations as well, not your average middle class family of 4.

I would argue that an area with 300k but little to no corporate presence makes it less desirable, for D1 at least. Looking at the census, despite Barrie ranking higher in population, Moncton makes way more sense due to it's corporate weight (Irving). Same for Niagara-St.Cath having double St.John's population but they have Oil companies like ExxonMobil Canada having it's HQ there.

A strong Corporate presence that spends on the product (recurring expansive season tickets, concessions and merchandise) helps the clubs being less dependent on lower tier ticket sales.  I think CPL did a much better job in that area than the CSL ever did, hence its demise. That was actually a Clanachan main talking point, corporate Canada seems as shown up and it seems that it will be an increasing trend.

Isn't that the whole point of CSB after all? Can't be a major league without corporate money.

 

Corporate bucks are a lot bigger than the fans' although without a fanbase corporates wouldn't be interested. 

[Sébastien]

If you install a team in Moncton and turn it into some language-based identity symbol, whether French or English, it will fail. As an Acadian myself, I can tell you that any team that "claims" that identity will receive little support from the Acadian community and even less from the Anglophone community.

Moncton is already too small with a close to non-existant corporate base for the CPL. I don't understand why people think that discouraging any potential fan from forging links with the team could be helpful.

[fmfranck]

6 hours ago, Sébastien said:

If you install a team in Moncton and turn it into some language-based identity symbol, whether French or English, it will fail. As an Acadian myself, I can tell you that any team that "claims" that identity will receive little support from the Acadian community and even less from the Anglophone community.

 Moncton is already too small with a close to non-existant corporate base for the CPL. I don't understand why people think that discouraging any potential fan from forging links with the team could be helpful.

I havent read every post in this thread, but I haven't seen anyone support the idea that an identity would be "imposed" by anyone. If you install a team in Moncton, I'd expect the team culture to organically be, "at least", bilingual. 

[Senorpopps]

6 minutes ago, fmfranck said:

I havent read every post in this thread, but I haven't seen anyone support the idea that an identity would be "imposed" by anyone. If you install a team in Moncton, I'd expect the team culture to organically be, "at least", bilingual. 

I agree, often it's the fans themselves that build the culture not the organization. Since you can't exactly choose your fans, the culture aspect would likely be what you say - "bilingual" -

[Initial B]

17 hours ago, Ansem said:

I would argue that an area with 300k but little to no corporate presence makes it less desirable, for D1 at least. Looking at the census, despite Barrie ranking higher in population, Moncton makes way more sense due to it's corporate weight (Irving). Same for Niagara-St.Cath having double St.John's population but they have Oil companies like ExxonMobil Canada having it's HQ there.

I'm not sure about corporate presence, but for Corporate headquarters, Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver have the lion's share and they're mostly hitching their wagon to MLS. A cursory Wiki search shows these CPL cities with Corp HQs:

1. Calgary (Oil Companies, CPR, Shaw)
2. Edmonton (Government, Finance, Technology, The Brick, Bioware)
3. Winnipeg (Government, Transportation, GreatWest Life)
4. Victoria (Government - probably the weakest corporate presence, maybe Vista Broadcast from Courtnay?))
5. York Region (Magna, Honda, Mobilicity, Ganz)
6. Hamilton (Stelco, Dofasco)
7. Halifax (Bell Aliant, NS Power, Jazz Air, Government)

A further Wiki search shows these other Canadian cities with multiple or major Corporate HQs that could probably support Div 1 soccer:

1. Brampton (Loblaws, Hudson's Bay)
2. Burnaby (Telus, Balard Power, EA Canada)
3. Kelowna (FortisBC, Sun Rype, Koingo Software)
4. Kitchener-Waterloo (Colt Weapons, Dare Foods, Blackberry, technology) 
5. Laval (Circle K, Valeant Pharma etc)
6. London (Financial, London Life, Goodlife Fitness)
7. Mississauga (Cotts, IMAX, Winners, Second Cup)
8. Oakville (Ford, Tim Hortons, Financial)
9. Ottawa (Software, Corel, Shopify, Giant Tiger, GOVERNMENT)
10. Quebec City (Government, Financial, )
11. Regina (Government, SaskTel, SaskPower, TransGas)
12. Saskatoon (Potash Corp, Mining, Biotech)
13. St. John's (Fortis, Bowring)
14. Saint John (Irving Oil, Moosehead, JDI)
15. Windsor (Chrysler)

A further Wiki search shows these other Canadian cities with Corp HQs that could probably front lower tier soccer::

1. Barrie (The Source)
2. Belleville (Black Diamond Cheese)
3. Brantford (New York Fries)
4. Cambridge (Lystek)
5. Charlottetown (PEI Insurance)
6. Delta (Choices Market)
7. Fredericton (Government, McCain Foods?)
8. Fort McMurray (Syncrude)
9. Guelph (Sleeman's)
10. Langley (Save-on-Foods, Pharmasave)
11. Longueuil (Pratt & Whitney)
12. Medicine Hat (Kodiak Coil)
13. Oshawa (GM)
14. Prince Albert (Transwest Air)
15. Prince George (Forestry)
16. Sault-Ste-Marie (OLG)
17. Surrey (Frozen Mountain)
18. Vernon (Kal Tire, Tolko)

Unfortunately no Moncton, but that's 40 communities with a significant Corporate presence. Some companies have a national footprint and could sponsor aspects of the league, not just teams. Jersey sponsorship is going to be interesting if this league takes off.

Edited March 12, 2019 by Initial B

[Sébastien]

22 minutes ago, fmfranck said:

I havent read every post in this thread, but I haven't seen anyone support the idea that an identity would be "imposed" by anyone. If you install a team in Moncton, I'd expect the team culture to organically be, "at least", bilingual. 

There was a previous post talking about having the Moncton team having an "Acadie" focus, permitting it to also have a "Francophone derby" with a Québec team. There was also the Dwayne tweet, and others mentioning the Francophone connection as well.

I wasn't warning people against "imposing" an identity. And any team in Moncton would absolutely have to cater to both populations (though the Moncton Wildcats basically do it at an Ottawa Fury level, aka, not enough).

All I'm saying is that pitching the idea of team focused on the Acadian identity as a possible road to success is a non-starter.

[fmfranck]

Moncton have had some of its HQs recently acquired by other companies, but they still have a few : 

• Major Drilling Group International
• Medavie Blue cross

I dont think HQ is the be-all and end-all of making a team profitable. It is a well-known fact that IMFC have had a hard time attracting corporate dollars, but they can still survive in the MLS market.