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CPL new teams speculation

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1 hour ago, Copes said:

Just to clarify - them waiting a few years before committing is my speculation based on the vibe I got from the conversations I had with people in-the-know. Only thing I really know is that Clanachan has been here.

But the question becomes how to make sure that a Newfoundland team will be sustainable.  From what I have observed with hockey teams Newfoundland seems to be a graveyard for pro sports teams (from the folding of the Fog Devils and IceCaps)  what can be done to make this different???

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Soccer is popular in Newfoundland but it won’t be able to sustain a professional team based on a number of factors. 

Theres a number of issues with past hockey teams but the overlying issue is St. John’s sports and entertainments incompetence in running the building and the bussiness

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1 minute ago, top cheese said:

Soccer is popular in Newfoundland but it won’t be able to sustain a professional team based on a number of factors. 

Theres a number of issues with past hockey teams but the overlying issue is St. John’s sports and entertainments incompetence in running the building and the bussiness

what are the "factors"???? (I assume one is travel expenses)

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6 minutes ago, top cheese said:

Soccer is popular in Newfoundland but it won’t be able to sustain a professional team based on a number of factors. 

Theres a number of issues with past hockey teams but the overlying issue is St. John’s sports and entertainments incompetence in running the building and the bussiness

The main issue with the hockey teams was that NHL teams wanted their AHL teams closer.

As for Mile One Centre I'm pretty sure there were talks to sell it to to the owners of the St John's Edge. Not sure if that's still happening or not.

Edited by mpg_29

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22 minutes ago, top cheese said:

Soccer is popular in Newfoundland but it won’t be able to sustain a professional team based on a number of factors. 

Theres a number of issues with past hockey teams but the overlying issue is St. John’s sports and entertainments incompetence in running the building and the bussiness

  • They are unopposed in the summer
  • Existing stadium with lots of history
  • They have the population
  • An distinct identity
  • Rivalries with HFX Wanderers and potentially Moncton
  • They have the corporate presence

Just need the owner(s) to be all in and have a sustainable plan. I see no reason St.John's can't be a success

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Yeah the biggest issues with the past hockey teams hasn't been a lack of interest or attendance, its been the NHL owners not liking their teams being so far away.

I think a soccer team would be approached differently. That said, travel is always a factor when you're incorporating an island which I suspect is part of the reason any proposed ownership will wait and see how the other teams in the league do. 

Mile One isn't currently being sold, largely because City Hall doesn't seem to want to. I think the Edge ownership would buy it if they could. So much of the issue has to do with St. John's Sports and Entertainment, and quite frankly, their incompetence. Being an arm of the municipal government they simply do not know how to run an operation profitably, nor do they need to. They'll just push as much cost onto the tenant that they can and then ask for more money during the next year's budget cycle. If the Edge ownership (or any group, for that matter) could pry the rink away from that body I very much suspect that a lot of the game-day experience would be improved.

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1 hour ago, Copes said:

Yeah the biggest issues with the past hockey teams hasn't been a lack of interest or attendance, its been the NHL owners not liking their teams being so far away.

I think a soccer team would be approached differently. That said, travel is always a factor when you're incorporating an island which I suspect is part of the reason any proposed ownership will wait and see how the other teams in the league do. 

Mile One isn't currently being sold, largely because City Hall doesn't seem to want to. I think the Edge ownership would buy it if they could. So much of the issue has to do with St. John's Sports and Entertainment, and quite frankly, their incompetence. Being an arm of the municipal government they simply do not know how to run an operation profitably, nor do they need to. They'll just push as much cost onto the tenant that they can and then ask for more money during the next year's budget cycle. If the Edge ownership (or any group, for that matter) could pry the rink away from that body I very much suspect that a lot of the game-day experience would be improved.

My take is that if it's feasible in Victoria then it's likely feasible in St. John's. 

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16 hours ago, mpg_29 said:

My take is that if it's feasible in Victoria then it's likely feasible in St. John's. 

Completely agree. My SJSE rant is all hockey based and nothing on soccer. 

I'm quite certain as well that a team would flourish here. I'm just personally speculating it won't be until 2025ish.

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21 hours ago, mpg_29 said:

My take is that if it's feasible in Victoria then it's likely feasible in St. John's. 

Not to disrespect St. John's but the numbers don't necessarily support that assessment.

Metropolitan St. John's population: 205,955 wiki

Greater Victoria population: 367,770 wiki

I'd say it's still worth putting a club there, just maybe not until 2021 or later when the league revenue streams have solidified. 

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On 3/25/2019 at 9:42 AM, MtlMario said:

Still waiting patiently for Alex's end of March announcement for Laval team.?

??    Maybe that rumored second ownership group is delaying things? I hope it's not something worse.

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2 hours ago, BenFisk'sBiggestFan said:

Also important to note the strength of economies. Victoria with a lot more money to spend than St. John’s.

To be fair according to Wikipedia St John's has a higher median income. ;)

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3 hours ago, ted said:

To be fair according to Wikipedia St John's has a higher median income. ;)

That's interesting, but it's also old info (2010). I wonder if that is still the case now after the oil crash.

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45 minutes ago, Kent said:

That's interesting, but it's also old info (2010). I wonder if that is still the case now after the oil crash.

The latest Census data is available on the Statcan website but I’m too lazy to look.

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31 minutes ago, Senorpopps said:

People from Saskatchewan support their sports wayyy more than Newfoundlanders 

I guess those lacrosse statistics were so convincing that Joe Belan decided to put on some weird trial series featuring PDL teams or something instead of just jumping in...

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8 minutes ago, mpg_29 said:I guess those lacrosse statistics were so convincing that Joe Belan decided to put on some weird trial series featuring PDL teams or something instead of just jumping in...

The trails seem like more of a practice run than anything else. Fc Edmonton just jumped in to the NASL and that was terrible. The management didn’t know how to run a pro club. They ended up flipping Management half way through and that changed everything.

It seems to me that Belan is trying to get his back room staff in order more than anything. They need to test marketing, practice game day operations, make connections with local corporate investors, help create a supporters culture, etc...

I don’t think it is all about testing the market. That is one thing they can do by playing this series, but it is minimal. I think he probably focused on that aspect, because talking about shortcomings in backroom staff experience/connections doesnt usually bring confidence.

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5 minutes ago, BenFisk'sBiggestFan said:

The trails seem like more of a practice run than anything else. Fc Edmonton just jumped in to the NASL and that was terrible. The management didn’t know how to run a pro club. They ended up flipping Management half way through and that changed everything.

It seems to me that Belan is trying to get his back room staff in order more than anything. They need to test marketing, practice game day operations, make connections with local corporate investors, help create a supporters culture, etc...

I don’t think it is all about testing the market. That is one thing they can do by playing this series, but it is minimal. I think he probably focused on that aspect, because talking about shortcomings in backroom staff experience/connections doesnt usually bring confidence.

Well that would make more sense than testing the market...because I think it's difficult to gauge true interest without the real thing...

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4 minutes ago, BuzzAndSting said:

Took the time to look it up.

Median household income after tax according to the 2015 census.

Saskatoon $71 621

St John's $68 121

Of note they are number 1 and 3 in terms of household growth since 2005 with 36.1% and 27.3% respectively.

For further comparisons sake:

Victoria: $61,119

Halifax: $59,240

Moncton: $55,165

The thing about Newfoundland is that the second largest city outside of the St John's metro area is only 20,000 people... So St. John's essentially serves as the main hub/center for everything in the province. So besides the offshore oil industry there a lot of government, academic and health related jobs concentrated in one area. I suspect that's why the median income is relatively high.

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18 minutes ago, mpg_29 said:

For further comparisons sake:

Victoria: $61,119

Halifax: $59,240

Moncton: $55,165

The thing about Newfoundland is that the second largest city outside of the St John's metro area is only 20,000 people... So St. John's essentially serves as the main hub/center for everything in the province. So besides the offshore oil industry there a lot of government, academic and health related jobs concentrated in one area. I suspect that's why the median income is relatively high.

Not wrong. Income in St. John's and income in the rest of the province is quite different. 

I disagree with the assertion that Newfoundlanders don't support their sports teams. IceCaps consistently had sellout crowds and were recognized by the AHL on several occasions for their consistent attendance. Edge games seemed to do well when I've been there. People drive in from Burin for Challenge Cup, to get a sense of their soccer support. 

Newfoundland has never had division 1 anything. I feel quite confident that if there was a D1 team in a D1 league, it would do well. Especially if it was soccer.

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